FolignosJock
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Posts posted by FolignosJock
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I am talking 30million.
You are talking 42million.
We just disagree on his worth.
No we agree on his worth just not the years. His most expensive year will be next year if the cap continues to grow as it is expected and widely accepted to grow over the next 7 years. So you think he is worth the 8-9 percent of the cap next year but that he wont be worth the 6-8 percent of the cap at the end of the contract?
I dont understand that logic
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No. You have no idea what that contract will be worth against the capo in 2020. What if we have RFAs that need to be signed? What if there are other players we want ? This is the type of idea that gets you into cap trouble.
No it isnt. Barring anything unforeseen happening and the economy tanking or the NHL tanking it will be a great contract in 2020. If we have RFAs to be signed then we sign them. It wont be like going after big UFA's. Or we retain some salary and ship him out. The new CBA allows you to do these things without getting in trouble. The only trouble we could be in is the next 2-3 years and we dont have anyone we need to keep! Barring girgensons exploding and becoming a 9 million dollar player..... If he is gonna get injured and not going to play then you cut him. Or waive him or get rid of him. This isnt an albatross contract.
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If you could sign him for either 6mil 5 years or 5mil 6 years I'd be in.
Why not 6mil for 6 or 7? That doesnt make much sense as the contract will be worth much less than 2014 6million in 2020.
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So am I. I like Callahan and all, but we can't just throw money around because there's room now. No one would be really upset at giving Callahan an extra $1-2M now, but once you add up a couple of those $1-2M extra contracts down the road we're in cap-hell and not able to sign or re-sign players we need.
We arent doing that with a bunch of people. We are purely talking about callahan right now. We wont need that money for 3-4 years and inthat time this contract will be incredibly easy to live with or trade away. The only way we would need to trade it away is if all of our young talent pans out and become top 6 forwards. That isnt going to happen. So it makes sense to get this deal done.
Yes it matters. Yes I am serious. I am not paying a 28yr old for the potential to get 30. Who were Callahans linemates the last 2 years? Bet they are more talented than what he will have for Buffalo.
Its like Tyler Ennis. He could be a 70pt a year forward... he isn't. He is a 40-50pt guy and that is what it is. Callahan's best season was 29 goals. Will he hit 30? Maybe one year he will but I am done paying for Maybe this and Maybe that.
Ok well lets get the 29 goal scorer who also offers all the intangibles and leadership so that the young core that is coming up sees that the guy we give money to is the hardest working guy on the ice and the leader in the locker room. or else we can listen to mattpie and show the entire league and all the kids we are drafting that buffalo is a laughing stock who overpaid 1 yr guys to get to the cap floor instead of trying to make their team better.....
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You really think John Scott doesn't take a 1yr/$5M deal if the Sabres are trying to hit the floor?
Dude come on. I am dealing with reality here.
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Mrs. Assquatch made a hardcover photo book of my son's kindergarten class through Shutterfly. She was volunteering in the classroom that year so she had a ton of great pictures of all the kids and she made it into a yearbook of sorts (the school offers no official yearbook at that age). There was a double-page dedicated to photos of each kid in the class and what they were doing throughout the year. She offered to let the other parents buy them at cost (they were $35 to print) if they wanted.
My son is now 10 (so we're talking about 6 years ago), and one lady still hasn't paid for hers. We see her once a month or so at school functions. We know we're never seeing the money but at this point we ask her about it just because it's entertaining. Every time she tells us a new story about what's currently going on in her life preventing her from being able to pay us the $35, and that next time she sees us it will be different.
Really? I would give it up dude. At this point you need to be the better person and stop asking.
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You are certainly right that DR didn't deliver quality centers. But a big part of his problem was giving out "upper middle class" contracts (i.e. $4MM or thereabouts) to a bunch of mediocrities like Stafford, Leino and Hecht who were really $1MM guys (I also continue to believe that Pommer was overpaid by $2MM or so per year, but at least he was a good player). When you throw away $3MM per year per mediocrity, pretty soon you've wasted $8MM to $10MM per year in cap/budget space on guys who don't add any value.
I agree that they need 2 more good centers. But they also need 3 or 4 wingers (depending on where Ennis plays and how you feel about him) for their top 2 lines. I'd rather overpay Callahan by $2MM or so because I am very comfortable that he will add a lot of value to the top 6 and to the team generally. And giving that money to Callahan doesn't preclude them from paying a good center should one become available.
We have 4 guys in the system and on the team that are supposed to be top six centers. Guys that are locked up or RFAs in the next 2-5 years. This contract wouldnt interfere with those guys at all.
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Any way you want to cut it, whether its the system, injuries, or declining skills, his role has been diminished this year and they arent willing to break the bank for him.
Our team needs high end talent desperately. Leadership and grinders are far more easy to find. I wouldn't want to sign RC if it would in any way impact a long term deal for a talented scorer. We have enough grinders who can't score.
Find me a two way forward that is a Captain that also scores at a 25-30 goal a year pace.... Who will play all the tough minutes and will lead a young club close to his hometown.....
I have a question. Is 29, 30? No So he didn't. His GPG average may indicate over a full 82 games he would. Matter of fact I know it does. However, he hasn't done it yet. I like RC. I would love him as a Sabre. But if I was TM and I had the chance to offer him a deal, 5years 25million would be my offer. That is what he is worth, maybe a shade above that but 7yrs 7mil is just to much for a Winger. We overpaid wingers for a decade... I have seen enough of that show.
is 29 30 ??? Are you effing serious with that? So he maintained that for two straight years. He didnt have anymore games to play last year. It will be between 6-7 million dollars. It is market value it isnt overpaying. Read any of the articles out there about him right now. They know he is going to get that money.
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Did he get to 30 goals? No. DR paid for "Goals they should have had if they played more". Tim Murray can not afford too.
He got to 29 and 16 in a lockout shortened season. So yes he kind of did.
Any way you want to cut it, whether its the system, injuries, or declining skills, his role has been diminished this year and they arent willing to break the bank for him.
Our team needs high end talent desperately. Leadership and grinders are far more easy to find. I wouldn't want to sign RC if it would in any way impact a long term deal for a talented scorer. We have enough grinders who can't score.
Yes they are willing to! They want to resign him. They would give him that deal. They just cant!
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/rangers/post/_/id/1190/could-the-rangers-trade-ryan-callahan
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He turns 29 Next month, and grinders like him, who already have issues with injuries, and block a ton of shots (already broken his hand x2 and his leg), arent worth big money long term deals. His ice time is already going down at age 28.
His ice time is down because of the injuries this year.... his production numbers are up though.... Also his TOI jumped up 30 seconds last year. It is down 3 minutes this year. He is also in a system that isnt really suited for him. Yet the TN system is almost made for him to play in.
He played at a 30 goal a year pace the previous two years. He is certainly worth this money.
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Had a 5 hour long interview at Amazon yesterday! Think I did really well so looking forward to hearing back!
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Yes he didn't want to leave Tampa and didnt have to sign for 5 years. He took a slight discount to stay. The point remains the RC is not a $6M-$7M player for 6 or 7 years. He won't play that long and his contract stays on the books.
he is 28...... you dont think he is going to play til he is 35?
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and Stamkos was an RFA when he signed his deal. Like Foligno said, put those guys on the open market today and see what they get.
They would get 12 million. It isnt rocket science. They get the max the agent doesnt do anything. He says we want the max, if you arent giving it to us then the other guy will.
It truly does not matter if we slightly overpay 1-2% of our cap for the next 2-3 years on callahan. (even though I think he deserves it). The deal will be either at market value or slightly less than market value in 3 years. These same people I am arguing were probably hating the vanek deal. But that deal in the last 2-3 years has been slightly less than market value. It works out in the long run because if you are overpaying by 1 million a year for the first three years you are underpaying by 1.5 million the last 4 years of the deal.
But you would signing him for longer than 3-4years. What Happens when Ristolainen and Zadorov need contracts? What happens if Rienhart or Bennett are really good and come off entry level deals? What about if we luck into McDavid or Eichel? That is my question.
We dont need to sign those guys for 3 more years. Four or five for the rookies/undrafteds you are talking about. in 3-4 years this deal is worth it and we will have that cap space to sign those RFAs very easily. There really isnt an issue unless you think that girgensons is going to turn into a 9 million dollar player. If that does happen which we all hope and pray that it does you can move callahan because he will have a cap friendly contract by that time or you could even retain some salary to make it even more attractive. It isnt that hard. This deal makes sense for us and we are in the perfect position to get it done.
One year deals happen every offseason. With vets that can't get anymore.
Ok? So just like Jagr.... or Tim Thomas who needs to prove himself and hasnt. In the context that we are talking these guys dont sign one year deals. You know what I meant and you know that it doesnt happen.
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You think paying your 2nd/3rd line RW 11% of your cap space is a great deal? Are you Darcy Regier?
No new tv contracts for a bit.
It will be around 8-9 percent depending on if we can get him for a between 6-7 mil. It is a very good deal. It is a deal that the Rangers would make if they didnt already have 33 percent of their cap invested in three players.
Hold on a second, You are seriously trying to compare Ryan Callahan's salary to the current Cap which is lower than when he signed his deal and artificially low because of the new CBA?
The math when he signed that deal was 6.74% of the cap. If the cap hits 71mil and he signs for 7mil his hit will be 9.86% of the cap. So you are saying he is worth a 3.12% against the cap increase?
Yes he is easily worth that small pay increase. Especially on a team with millions of cap space to play with for the next 3-4 years.
If that cap hits 80 by the end of the deal which is a low estimate he will be at 7.5% to 8.75% of the cap which is where he is at right now. If it goes to 90 which is what most projections say he will be at 6.6 to 7.7% of the cap. It is a very fair deal.
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And where is that team right now? Looking at dumping him cause they don't want to pay him what you say he is worth even with the increase in the cap
They cant pay him! They cant afford him because they decided to keep their goalie and sign the truly expensive free agents. We arent doing that! We are getting rid of the goalie.....
They would love to but the Richards deal has hamstrung them
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I would like Callahan here, but not just for the sake of getting to the floor. If they really want that they can just overpay on one-year deals.
No they cant. No player on earth takes one year deals in free agency. Unless you are Jagr.
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You think paying your 2nd/3rd line RW 11% of your cap space is a great deal? Are you Darcy Regier?
No new tv contracts for a bit.
What? he makes a higher percentage than that currently on a team that still has the money to have elite talent.... So yes that is a good deal.
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He has missed 54 games to date since 2008-09.
Exactly. This is not injury prone at all! The dude is hardly ever hurt!
My point was that after this one time jump in the cap, theres no idea how much of an increase (if any) there will be year to year. To say that overpaying for someone this year will be no problem cause the cap will increase year to year is just not true if the cap is only increasing a few million from year to year
Projecting the cap to be around 90 million when his deal will be ending. Which will make him an absolute steal for the last 3-4 years of the deal...thats at 7 per, if we could get him at 6 or 6.5 it is even better
It is if the deal is seven years long..... .
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The reason the cap is going up so much is because of the new deal the NHL signed for the TV contract. We can't count on that every year. My guess is that after we hit 70mil this year it takes another 5 years to get from their to 80mil. It will level off and may stop. A smart GM with this crappy team isn't going to handcuff himself like that.
So You would rather do exactly what Darcy did which is pay wingers more money than any of your centers and then be a crappy team for 7 years because you have crappy centers? If Callahan was a center I might be on board but until he becomes one I am not at that price. He would be the highest payed guy on the team and he isn't worth it.
Okay that is what he wants from NYR not what I think we would have to pay him to get him.
If it hits 80 million this is still a great deal.80 million is being very cautious
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Which is still only 3/4ths of a season
Hahahah he has played 60 games just once in his career. All of last year, an 81 game season a 77 game season and this year where he is projected to play 65 games....
So he has played in 330/375 games.
so he plays in roughly 90% of the games in his career. He isnt injury prone and it isnt a reason not to sign him.
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No, you are hoping/assuming/Praying that the cap just continues to go up
I don't think anyone is predicting that cap will continue to climb substantially after this years one time jump due to the cut back they did from the lockout
Its unlikely its going to go down but the increase from year to year after this offseason will be more in line with what the increases were year to year prior to the lockout.
So you are telling me that it is going to continue to go up but arguing about how much? I am saying it is going up every year for the foreseeable future and so are you! Stop arguing with yourself.
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since 2006/07 he has played more then 60 games in a season only 3 times (81 in 08/09, 77 in 09/10, and 76 in 11/12). He has 1 other seasons where he hit 60 games (10/11)
this year he is on pace for 65 games
While he is not Timmy when it comes to fragility, he still misses chunks of time for injuries and as he ages, I doubt thats going to get much better
He became a full time player in 08/09...... the other season you are including was lockout shortened......... So he has played at least 60 games in each and every season........
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No he doesnt really kill penalties. He's on the PK less than Stafford, Girgs, and Clarke freaking macarthur. He's 150th on PK time for all forwards in the NHL.
People sure talk about his penalty killing a lot for a guy that doesnt do it.
He has been hurt therefore not practicing with the unit which is why he isnt on it much currently. He is an incredible penalty killer and an awesome two day player.
Parise was a UFA when he signed it, Stamkos was an RFA. And be careful when looking at salary structure vs. cap hit. No way Parise signs a deal with a 12 mil cap hit now that there's term limits.
Oh, and Stamkos is a center, at best the 3rd best in the league behind Crosby and Malkin. So yes, I think it's completely insane to think he'd get a new deal for $2.5MM more than Malkin if the deal were signed right now.
He could easily get a max deal........ It isnt even a debate. I dont know why you think that he couldnt. Malkin took a small pay cut on an extension a sweetheart deal with one of the best teams in the league. Where he plays with the best player in the league.
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No he doesnt really kill penalties. He's on the PK less than Stafford, Girgs, and Clarke freaking macarthur. He's 150th on PK time for all forwards in the NHL.
Maybe that has something to do with being hurt?
"Increasingly Substantiated BS" rumor thread- 2014 Edition
in The Aud Club
Posted
The NHL salary cap is going up to 71 million. That was artificially constructed. But it will only continue to grow and I think it will hop up towards 80 million in the next 4 years. The growth that happened around the olympics the last time moved it up about 7 million dollars as well and all that momentum was lost with the lockout with the new tv deal upping it this much I think the olympics will only add to that momentum and drive the product up even more. This deal looks great in 5 years. This team should be good in 5 years. Callahan should be the leader in five years, at that point we can rework the deal if needed to keep the kids that have hopefully matured very well. A sweetheart deal for a hometown captain on a team that is truly his. or we can retain salary and ship him out for more kids to keep the team good. Look at what Chicago does....
ok well we have a thousand picks in the next three years with a bunch more supposedly coming in before this trade deadline from trades. That sounds a lot like we got the trading and drafting aspects set up. So guess what time it is? UFA TIME!!!!