Carolina down two defensemen

[Bmwolf21]

Doug Weight's not a defenseman. And I also thought they said he returned to the game in the third. Same for Aaron Ward. Same for Glen Wesley, who has been playing hurt. Give the Cans credit. They are a gutsy bunch. Suck it up and play through pain. I guess I can't say I expected any of the injured Sabres to return. Out of frustration, I want to say it, though. The Canes get some injuries, and their players play through it. We get injuries, and our guys get the last rites and are never seen again. Instead of making me feel better, the injuries being suffered by Carolina just make me feel worse.

 

 

Injuries, or just putting on a show?

 

I cannot count the number of times in the series against us, where a Cane would limp off the ice like he'd been shot several times, head for the dressing room, yet be back on the ice 2 mins later. Seems to me like somebody was working the refs.

 

Breaking an arm is a little different, I would say.

 

I'm curious - off the top of your head, what "injuries" has Carolina had to deal with in the playoffs? And I'm not talking about blocking a shot, flexing the leg on the sidelines for 30 seconds and coming back on the ice, but real, Willis Reed/Bobby Baun-type injuries & comebacks? Krisitian nailed it on both counts - first, the injuries we had weren't of the weak variety - you had a forward with a head injury/concussion; a pair of defensemen who had broken bones (arm and ankle); one with a serious staph infection that could have cost him his leg and/or life; and one with a hip flexor/groin injury/pulled hammy/broken toenail. Only Teppo's was really something he might have been able to play through with some cortisone and gritted teeth - the others? No way, man - not even close. There is a HUGE difference between playing through pain and playing through injury.

 

Second, llike others have mentioned, I am sick & tired of watching the Canes block a shot, limp off the ice, and skate back on 30 seconds later, all while Davidson is marvelling at their toughness. Granted, last game they lost Ward & Weight for longer stretches, but generally that has been the scene game in and game out for the Canes, at least over the last two series.

 

Finally, even though I am sick & tired of seeing the Southeast Division represent the East in the Cup finals, they weren't the worst division in hockey this year. The Central (3 teams under .500) were the worst, followed by the Atlantic (2 teams under .500) and then all four remaining division had one team apiece under .500. Two years ago the case could be made for the Southeast being terrible, as Tampa was the only team with a winning record in that division. Those numbers are obviously skewed somewhat, due to the elimination of the tie, but you get the point. Still doesn't take the sting out from watching the Canes skate the precipice of hockey immortatlity, though...

[PASabreFan]

jad, I don't want to tear you limb from limb. Yet.

 

I don't agree that good health alone explains Carolina sitting on the verge of a Cup. Look at us. IMHO, we came within a whisker of winning it all this year, even with the AHL defense we would have put up in the finals and without an offensive superstar in the making.

 

Carolina is gutsy for a lot of reasons. Sorry if the "g" words get you all hot and bothered. The Canes lost the first two games of the playoffs at home and came back to oust Montreal. They lost Game 1 at home to us, trailed a pivotal Game 5 by two goals and won and trailed Game 7 entering the third and won. They just keep coming back for more and more. Gutsy. I just think the Canes deserve more respect than they are getting here. They beat a hot Montreal team, a hotter New Jersey team and then, I'm sure we would all agree, the best team remaining in the playoffs.

 

Kristian and wolf, I guess I just don't get the "faking an injury" theory. To what end?

 

I'm sorry, it all does sound very petty and bitter. Next thing you know, someone is going to say they saw an empty seat at the RBC Center. :)

[Bmwolf21]

jad, I don't want to tear you limb from limb. Yet.

 

I don't agree that good health alone explains Carolina sitting on the verge of a Cup. Look at us. IMHO, we came within a whisker of winning it all this year, even with the AHL defense we would have put up in the finals and without an offensive superstar in the making.

 

Carolina is gutsy for a lot of reasons. Sorry if the "g" words get you all hot and bothered. The Canes lost the first two games of the playoffs at home and came back to oust Montreal. They lost Game 1 at home to us, trailed a pivotal Game 5 by two goals and won and trailed Game 7 entering the third and won. They just keep coming back for more and more. Gutsy. I just think the Canes deserve more respect than they are getting here. They beat a hot Montreal team, a hotter New Jersey team and then, I'm sure we would all agree, the best team remaining in the playoffs.

Kristian and wolf, I guess I just don't get the "faking an injury" theory. To what end?

 

I'm sorry, it all does sound very petty and bitter. Next thing you know, someone is going to say they saw an empty seat at the RBC Center. :)

I'm not sure what you mean by "to what end?" The question still stands - who has Carolina lost for any signficant period of time in the playoffs? I'll save you the time looking it up - the answer is no one. Also, they did beat some good teams to get where they are, but they definitely benefitted from unfortunate injuries to opponents' key players to get where they are (holding a 3-2 lead over Edmonton in the SCF.) Montreal lost Captain Koivu, we set up a M.A.S.H. unit in the trainer's room and the Oil lost their goalie, all while Carolina went unscathed through the first 3 1/2 rounds. Coincidence? I don't think so. I can't hold anything against them, as the Sabres would try to take advantage of those injuries as well, but to deny that health is a driving factor in making and winning the Stanley Cup playoff marathon is silly at best.

 

Do I think Carolina deserves respect? Sure, any team that does what they've done so far deserves some respect. After all, they've won 15 of their last 23, and stand 60 minutes from claiming Lord Stanley's Cup. If you want to use the word gutsy in the sense of their ability to come back and rally in games and series, then that's fine with me. After watching them erase big leads over the last two rounds, I've personally equated them with a bunch of cockroaches, taking everything you throw at them and surviving it all. But I do (and will continue to) take exception with the idea of their players "playing hurt" and "being gutsy" for the reasons I've already listed. If you keep championing their players as "gutsy" for blocking a shot, milking it on the sidelines, then coming back without missing a shift, then I am going to have to assume you aren't the real PASabreFan, but somehow John Davidson has hijacked your account and the real PASabreFan is locked in a basement somewhere... :D

[fushetti]

I'm assuming your post was primarily "tongue in cheek", but just in case it wasn't, you are questioning the "credentials" of one of the biggest, if not the biggest fan on this board.

 

PA is a guy that spent most of the season listening to the team ON THE RADIO and was still posting here daily. I haven't listened to games regularly on the radio since I was in high school.

 

He also is responsible for the daily history lessons and providing the audio links to highlights.

 

Just because he doesn't see everything the Sabres do as wonderful does not mean he isn't dedicated.

 

 

Hey hey hey... PA is also a cheap SOB.... thats why he didn't watch any games on TV. In fact, he still has the rabbit ears on top of his huge RCA in the corner of the living room. When the Sabres moved from over the air broadcast to cable in the 80's he started using the foil to bring the WGR signal in better. Hell, the guy posts messages to this board on a Windows 3.1 operating system. hehe.

 

In all fairness... this board needs a PASabrefan. As much as he's annoyed me with his reality over the past 10 years, he speaks it like it is. I HATE THE CANES! I don't think they deserve to win because of our injuries...but they are going to win and whatever. I'll just pretend no cup is won this year... I wish I could be more like PA and just accept things...but I still have some hair and am not as old and wise as him.

 

Whoa, this just turned into the PA Sabrefan roast.

[PASabreFan]

Windows 3.1? No. Mac OS 9. Close. And I have dialup! And I run Internet Explorer 5.5! And I save the little pieces of paper in fortune cookies and glue them together to make big sheets of paper!

 

If this is my roast, where the hell is Don Rickles?

 

Wolf, you are distorting what I said about the Canes, big time. I said the return of a player who had been knocked out of the game for over a period was gutsy. I added to that by saying the team itself was gutsy for coming back so many times in the playoffs. Yes, they've been very lucky to avoid major injuries, but they are not lucky to be where they are. That's a very good hockey team.

 

Sue me. But you will have to deal with my attorney, Shecky Fushetti, Esquire.

 

Oh yeah, "to what end" means why -- why would the Canes be milking injuries? What advantage do they get by having players block a shot, limp off the ice, go into hysterics, then come back? I don't get it.

[X. Benedict]

 

If this is my roast, where the hell is Don Rickles?

 

It stinks to get roasted by the D-list. You want Rickles, but Paula Poundstone and Carrot-top show up.

[fushetti]

Windows 3.1? No. Mac OS 9. Close. And I have dialup! And I run Internet Explorer 5.5! And I save the little pieces of paper in fortune cookies and glue them together to make big sheets of paper!

 

If this is my roast, where the hell is Don Rickles?

 

Wolf, you are distorting what I said about the Canes, big time. I said the return of a player who had been knocked out of the game for over a period was gutsy. I added to that by saying the team itself was gutsy for coming back so many times in the playoffs. Yes, they've been very lucky to avoid major injuries, but they are not lucky to be where they are. That's a very good hockey team.

 

Sue me. But you will have to deal with my attorney, Shecky Fushetti, Esquire.

 

Oh yeah, "to what end" means why -- why would the Canes be milking injuries? What advantage do they get by having players block a shot, limp off the ice, go into hysterics, then come back? I don't get it.

 

 

I knew you ran MAC OS but I am ignorant to the old versions of it and didn't want to sound stupid. I'm a PC guy.

[Bmwolf21]

Wolf, you are distorting what I said about the Canes, big time. I said the return of a player who had been knocked out of the game for over a period was gutsy. I added to that by saying the team itself was gutsy for coming back so many times in the playoffs. Yes, they've been very lucky to avoid major injuries, but they are not lucky to be where they are. That's a very good hockey team.

 

Sue me. But you will have to deal with my attorney, Shecky Fushetti, Esquire.

 

Oh yeah, "to what end" means why -- why would the Canes be milking injuries? What advantage do they get by having players block a shot, limp off the ice, go into hysterics, then come back? I don't get it.

 

I guess where I get confused is where you said the Canes are a gutsy bunch who "suck it up and play through pain" while "our guys get the last rites and are never seen again." My response was that they haven't had any injuries, they've had bumps & bruises, and no one (save Aaron Ward in the last game) has missed any significant time and come back.

 

I also guess you missed the part of my last post where I said:

 

Do I think Carolina deserves respect? Sure, any team that does what they've done so far deserves some respect. After all, they've won 15 of their last 23, and stand 60 minutes from claiming Lord Stanley's Cup. If you want to use the word gutsy in the sense of their ability to come back and rally in games and series, then that's fine with me. After watching them erase big leads over the last two rounds, I've personally equated them with a bunch of cockroaches, taking everything you throw at them and surviving it all. But I do (and will continue to) take exception with the idea of their players "playing hurt" and "being gutsy" for the reasons I've already listed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this --at this point I think I am arguing for the sake of arguing. I just find it hard to believe that some people (not singling you out, PA, this includes the national media, Davidson, Emrick & the rest of the OLN/NBC crew - all praising the Canes for being so tough and overcoming injuries, but I haven't seen any actual injuries. Maybe they are embellishing for the refs' sake, maybe to make themselves feel better - hell, maybe its just due to an older team not able to take as much pain anymore. I don't know. I guess it just rankles me as a Sabres fan to see the Canes celebrated for overcoming injuries when they haven't had to make one lineup change (outside the crease) since the 1st round. Everyone loves the underdog story, overcoming adversity, etc., but it really stinks if the undedog angle is manufactured. "Ooh, but they overcame so much in the postseason." No, they didn't - their same regular-season roster dug themselves into holes and they had to crawl out of them (which they did, admirably) - but they didn't get into trouble b/c the injury replacements hurt them.

[PASabreFan]

I believe you are exaggerating what media types have said about Carolina. I haven't heard stuff like that being said. Then again, I haven't followed the coverage except to watch the games on OLN/NBC. But the media loves to distort and sensationalize, so I wouldn't be surprised if some Cane knob was being polished (apologies to whoever wrote that yesterday on this board). Now that Edmonton has climbed back into the series, I am sure we will see some oil derricks being pumped dry.

 

You are right to call me out on my comments about the Canes "sucking it up" and the Sabres "never being seen again." It was an ignorant comment born out of frustration. As someone else said, only Numminen's injury could reasonably be overcome. If Teppo's first name was Dominik, we would have been all over the guy. Oops, another ignorant comment. There I go again.

 

By all means, argue for the sake of arguing. Without that, there would be no board!

 

By the way, here's exactly what I wrote: "I guess I can't say I expected any of the injured Sabres to return. Out of frustration, I want to say it, though. The Canes get some injuries, and their players play through it. We get injuries, and our guys get the last rites and are never seen again."

[Bmwolf21]

I believe you are exaggerating what media types have said about Carolina. I haven't heard stuff like that being said. Then again, I haven't followed the coverage except to watch the games on OLN/NBC. But the media loves to distort and sensationalize, so I wouldn't be surprised if some Cane knob was being polished (apologies to whoever wrote that yesterday on this board). Now that Edmonton has climbed back into the series, I am sure we will see some oil derricks being pumped dry.

 

You are right to call me out on my comments about the Canes "sucking it up" and the Sabres "never being seen again." It was an ignorant comment born out of frustration. As someone else said, only Numminen's injury could reasonably be overcome. If Teppo's first name was Dominik, we would have been all over the guy. Oops, another ignorant comment. There I go again.

 

By all means, argue for the sake of arguing. Without that, there would be no board!

 

By the way, here's exactly what I wrote: "I guess I can't say I expected any of the injured Sabres to return. Out of frustration, I want to say it, though. The Canes get some injuries, and their players play through it. We get injuries, and our guys get the last rites and are never seen again."

 

Fair enough - I didn't want you to think I was calling you out for the sake of calling you out - we've all said things borne in frustration, but on a message board, they remain immortalized, to haunt you forever (or until the thread falls off the front page...) ;)

 

Personally, and it may seem bitter, and petty, but I hope we see Commodore, Wesley, Weight and a couple others get banged up in game 6, so the Caniacs understand what its like to wonder how your replacements are going to fare...

[jad1]

jad, I don't want to tear you limb from limb. Yet.

 

I don't agree that good health alone explains Carolina sitting on the verge of a Cup. Look at us. IMHO, we came within a whisker of winning it all this year, even with the AHL defense we would have put up in the finals and without an offensive superstar in the making.

 

Carolina is gutsy for a lot of reasons. Sorry if the "g" words get you all hot and bothered. The Canes lost the first two games of the playoffs at home and came back to oust Montreal. They lost Game 1 at home to us, trailed a pivotal Game 5 by two goals and won and trailed Game 7 entering the third and won. They just keep coming back for more and more. Gutsy. I just think the Canes deserve more respect than they are getting here. They beat a hot Montreal team, a hotter New Jersey team and then, I'm sure we would all agree, the best team remaining in the playoffs.

 

=

 

So how gutsy will they be if they blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals? :lol:

 

So you don't think Carolina was fortunate in the playoffs? You don't see a connection between Koivu being almost blinded and Carolina taking control of the series? You don't see a connection between Buffalo being down 4 defensemen and not being able to hold a lead in the 3rd period of game 7?

 

I'm not as impressed with the Canes run as you. The Canadiens were not a "hot" team; they were 2-3 in their last five regular season games, with two losses coming to the Sabres. The Devils were on an amazing run, but outside of that streak, they were a .500 club. So did they finally hit their stride, or were they a team playing over their heads? I believe they were the later, a one-line team with an average defense and good goaltender. And now they're being pushed to their limit by the West's 8th seed.

 

I think the Canes, along with the Sabres and Sens were the top three teams in the league. All things being equal, (all teams are healthy), I believe the Sabres are/were the best of the three. Of the three, though, the Canes were able to stay healthy. To their credit, they took advantage of the injury situation.

 

Is pointing this out disrespecting the Hurricanes? I guess in PACanesFan's view, it is.

[PASabreFan]

Like the Sabres, the Canes were just ravaged by injury in 2005-06. And yet, like the Sabres, they finished with well over 100 points. And are sitting on the brink of history -- one way or the other. Yes, they deserve some respect.

 

You can say the Canes got lucky, the conference was not strong this year, the top seeds in the West were knocked out, etc. But remember the old saying about treating others as you would want to be treated. If I didn't want the same garbage thrown in my face if the Sabres were about to win the Cup, I would be quiet.

[Bmwolf21]

If we won the Cup, would you really give a rat's behind what others said about it? Short of winning via forfeit, I wouldn't give a crap what 'Canes fans (leafs, Flyers, Sens, or anyone's fans) would have to say - all that matters is hitting the magic number - 16 wins.

 

Realistically, Canes fans shouldn't care less what anyone else has to say - we can sit here and bitch and moan and complain about their good fortune, their coach is a baby, they can't sell out their arena, etc etc - but right now they are 1 game away from the magic number. If they win, good for them, they survived the ice-covered battlefield that is the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Like jad said, they took advantage of their opponent's injury situation - no rules or laws or anything wrong with that. As I said before, doesn't mean I have to like any of them, but I'll respect them for outlasting everyone else.

 

Is part of my dislike for the Canes sour grapes? Absolutely - I'm man enough to admit that. We were gutted by injuries and could have been playing for Cup if our injuries were more spread out, and went into the final three game of the ECF with a healthier "D." Hell, I liked our chances going in with McKee in the lineup, but I think that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. I, too, felt Buffalo was the better team, but we'll never really know that for sure, since we didn't have our full team for games 2-7.

 

Would it make me feel better if Carolina does complete a hsitorical collapse and watches Edmonton skate around the RBC ice with the Cup? You're damn right it would - not only because I don't like the Canes, but also b/c that means guys like Pecs and Rollie and Smyth get their names on the Cup. You can laugh it off and call it artificial hate, unnecessary, whatever - but I'll be smiling if the Canes collapse.

[jad1]

Like the Sabres, the Canes were just ravaged by injury in 2005-06. And yet, like the Sabres, they finished with well over 100 points. And are sitting on the brink of history -- one way or the other. Yes, they deserve some respect.

 

You can say the Canes got lucky, the conference was not strong this year, the top seeds in the West were knocked out, etc. But remember the old saying about treating others as you would want to be treated. If I didn't want the same garbage thrown in my face if the Sabres were about to win the Cup, I would be quiet.

 

I've stated that the Hurricanes were among the best 3 teams in the league this year. How is that not giving them respect? And while they did suffer injuries in the regular season, they definitely got the better of the injury situation in the playoffs, which played a huge role in their making the finals.

 

I'm not throwing garbage in anybody's face. I'm on a Sabres board, not a Canes board. I consider myself among friends here with fellow Sabres fans, discussing my opinion of current NHL happenings.

 

And according to Canes fans, we're a bunch of drunken idiots. According to Flyers fans, we cheer when opposing players are injured. So handling other teams and fans with kid-gloves is not really my concern.

 

If you want to be quiet, go ahead. I will continue to state my opinion.

[SCSabresFan!]

Like the Sabres, the Canes were just ravaged by injury in 2005-06. And yet, like the Sabres, they finished with well over 100 points. And are sitting on the brink of history -- one way or the other. Yes, they deserve some respect.

 

You can say the Canes got lucky, the conference was not strong this year, the top seeds in the West were knocked out, etc. But remember the old saying about treating others as you would want to be treated. If I didn't want the same garbage thrown in my face if the Sabres were about to win the Cup, I would be quiet.

 

 

His sign in name on the Canes board is PACanesFan... ;)