Addition by Subtraction

[dudacek]

Just now, Thorny said:

It’s mostly the fact we are splitting hairs between bad and bad 

It’s about bad on top of bad.

We’ve kinda had this conversation before: you kinda hand wave 2021 as a quirk of the pandemic, I consider it one of the 2 worst years of my Sabre fandom.

We judge Adams through those two different lenses.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s about bad on top of bad.

We’ve kinda had this conversation before: you kinda hand wave 2021 as a quirk of the pandemic, I consider it one of the 2 worst years of my Sabre fandom.

We judge Adams through those two different lenses.

There’s no reason the lenses should be different. I’m judging him purely by the record of the team during his time as GM 

If you aren’t judging him by that after 5 years, I strenuously disagree with you. If you are, the lens is the same 

[dudacek]

91 points had many if us on thinking we were on the brink of the suffering being over (it has Montreal fans thinking cup contention.

Six points less and we wanted Adams and Granato launched into the sun.

Objectively 6 points are three bounces or borderline calls, but what matters is how you feel,

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s about bad on top of bad.

We’ve kinda had this conversation before: you kinda hand wave 2021 as a quirk of the pandemic, I consider it one of the 2 worst years of my Sabre fandom.

We judge Adams through those two different lenses.

I don’t hand wave 2021 as a quirk of the pandemic at all, that’s far from accurate. I deem it as something that should count towards the evaluation of the 15 years for exactly the amount of games within that stretch it counted for. 56 games.

56 out of 1157

using that anomalific sample size as justification for a 5 year rebuild is incredibly stupid yes 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

There’s no reason the lenses should be different. I’m judging him purely by the record of the team during his time as GM 

If you aren’t judging him by that after 5 years, I strenuously disagree with you. If you are, the lens is the same 

No, I’m talking about how I absolutely wanted that team blown up and you didn’t.

I don’t want to revisit that discussion but it’s a fundamental disagreement that I think is fueled largely by our perception of that year.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No, I’m talking about how I absolutely wanted that team blown up and you didn’t.

I don’t want to revisit that discussion but it’s a fundamental disagreement that I think is fueled largely by our perception of that year.

You didn’t want Eichel traded until you heard he asked for a trade 

In fact you frequently argued against the necessity of it until it happened 

Talk about revisionist 

Again, you didn’t want it blown up

You didnt want a 5 year rebuild

you just argued splendidly and intelligently for why it could work, after the fact - its what you always do. You proclaimed the merits of how the plan could work, and if Adams was actually trying to build a winning team in the way we want one, he probably could have done it by following your strategy 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

I’ll always remember vividly your post about Taylor Hall looking like “a shark that wasn’t quite hungry yet” during camp 2021. How excited you were, and how excited you made me about it 

there’s no way that guy believed the core should be exploded to the tune of a long form plan based on 56 games, of which Jack played, what, 21? While severely hurt? There’s no way you’d draw that strong of a conclusion based on 21/56 games - I don’t buy it 

Jack and Sam had to go? You felt Adams had the right idea? It’s not plausible 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:15 AM, dudacek said:

I do not want to trade Jack Eichel but I think he will be traded.

My ideal return would contain a 4-star centre entering or in his prime, like a Schiefele, a 5-star prospect like an Lafreniere and two other potentially useful young pieces like Jokiharju or a Thompson. We won’t get that.

My hoped-for realistic return is a good to very good established NHLer and at least two good prospects/young players/high picks - Boldy/Rossi/Dumba or Tkachuk/Zary/1st.

My realistic fear is at least one of those pieces is lesser: Boldy/2nd/Dumba or Monahan/Zary/1st. Or that he becomes a Ranger or King for five pieces that don’t project above a mid-roster player.

Wasn’t only Thorny that wanted Jack to stay 

On 6/16/2021 at 10:07 PM, dudacek said:

Is this that darkest moment before the dawn?

February 20, 2013 was a significant day for the Buffalo Sabres.

On that day, the Sabres fired Lindy Ruff after nearly 15 years, officially drawing to a close the most successful run in franchise history, straddling two eras, the Hasek years, and the post-lockout years.

It also officially marked the start of the tank years, the least successful run in franchise history, eight nightmarish years that began with intentional losing and has continued with a revolving door of bad executives, bad draft picks, bad players and bad spirits.

Sometime before the end of July, another significant day will dawn. On that day, the last of the tank fruit - Ristolainen, Eichel, Reinhart - will be scrubbed away from the franchise. 

A handful of young players, unblemished by the stink of the tank will arrive to complement a new coach and the bright-eyed group that finished the season. Our neophyte GM will finish hiring his people and begin to put his stamp on the organization.

I don’t expect to be happy with the return of these trades, or with the new hirings, or the results next year. I don’t blame the players who are being discarded. But I am weary. I am beaten. I want to move on. I crave new, something fresh to fire my ambition. I crave hope.

The proverb says the definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. This does not feel good, but it at least feels different.

And I can’t help but feel that with this off-season, for better or for worse, a page is being turned. And whatever story these new Sabres become, it won’t be the story of the tank.

Maybe this story will be a better one. 

I’m ready.

^ YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[dudacek]

Damn that 2nd post was fantastic.

Im clearly past my prime. Trade me to another board and give me my cup.

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Damn that 2nd post was fantastic.

Im clearly past my prime. Trade me to another board and give me my cup.

You were right about Jack, and you were brilliant in your hyping of the season - it gets me excited every year even though I have no hope 😂

It’s not your fault the GM doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I get that, but seriously, when was the last time that the coaching and front office staff seemed so…….. incompetent.  I don’t think that Gerry Meehans perceived competence was related to team marketing.

During the off-season (and the feeling was dispelled in fairly short order) when Regier and Ruff were brought in and the top GM got canned and the Jack Adams winner got effectively canned by offering him a 1 year deal that effected the desired reaction from said Jack Adams winner.

You had a guy who'd never been a GM before coming in.  Yes, he'd learned under Al Arbour, but he was part of some very bad teams and he was extremely milquetoast in demeanor.  And the new HC had been a former team captain, but had only been an AC with the Panthers.  AND one of the local sports radio stations had a personality that at the time didn't just hate the football coach who'd hired and subsequently fired him but also hated the new GM at a minimum.

Things also seemed bad a couople of years before that when Muckler traded away or let walk every star on the team not named Hasek or Lafontaine and brought in an inexperienced HC who'd had success in juniors but no NHL coaching experience.

Those are the only 2 points in time IMHO that were viewed as bad as or worse than what we've got now.  Even the bankruptcy year didn't seem this hopeless.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

It's not anything more than marketing.

They sold the tank, they sold Eichel and Bylsma, they sold Botterill and Housley, they sold Dahlin, the sold Krueger and Taylor Hall, they sold Granato and his blinding light brigade, the sold the return of Lindy.

Pro sports is sold on hope: when things don't work you press the reset button and sell the new beginning.

They've run out of things to sell and they've given up trying.

The fans are at the point they aren't going to buy anything other than wins.

Hire the right POHO/GM and maybe he doesn't have to rebuild, just retool. 

 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Hire the right POHO/GM and maybe he doesn't have to rebuild, just retool. 

 

Even if (just shoot us all now should this come to pass) all three of the "Big 3" decide to bolt, they don't HAVE to rebuild.  They'll almost definitely want/need to overspend on a top UFA, but it doesn't HAVE to be a rebuild.

(PLEASE dear Lord, do NOT let us get to the point that Dahlin, Thompson, and Tuch all want out of this dumpster fire.  That would be beyond depressing.)

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

(PLEASE dear Lord, do NOT let us get to the point that Dahlin, Thompson, and Tuch all want out of this dumpster fire.  That would be beyond depressing.)

GM Sheevyn knew that the addition by subtraction was Dahlin, Thompson, and Tuch all along. Think of the futures!