JohnC

I'm not fully versed on the ramifications of an offer sheet. My assumption is that Cirelli would prefer to stay with Tampa over accepting an offer sheet from Buffalo. Cirelli knows what his market value is. If Tampa can close to matching that price why would he prefer Buffalo or any other locations? Tampa is without a doubt a good situation for him. The Lightning can offer him less and from a money standpoint yet it still could be a comparable/close $$$ contract because of the favorable tax situation in Florida. As previously noted he would be able to continue playing for a long term cup contending team. There is a major incentive for Tampa to work out a contract deal with Cirelli. Why wouldn't they go all out for a superior young talent? I just think too many people are fixating on a player that won't be attainable for us.

Tampa has a loaded system. They have prospects ready to step in on the cheap. Will they end up moving some talent that under a less cap situation they would prefer to keep? Absolutely. But that's the cap puzzle that abundantly talented teams contend with. I just think that because Cirelli is not only a premier talent but he is also a young talent and will be a mainstay player for a long time that the organization will make him a priority to keep. Tampa will lose some talent in order to keep their preferred talent. There is no way to work around that reality. But as you indicated the Lightening are a smart and forward acting organization that will make the right tough choices. The challenge for our front office is not to get fixated on a positional need to the point that it gives up too much for the benefit of the now at the expense of the near future. I am open to all options. But I'm not afraid to stay the course and counting on internal improvement assuming that are still less high-profile deals made to better balance this roster.

I'm not adverse to considering Mitts or even Cozens as a 2C if another goal scoring second line winger can be brought in to boost the line. The price would certainly be less than in a deal for a second line center, and there would be more players to choose from the market. I'm aware that most commentators here don't want to take that course because they are afraid that Mitts and Cozens are not ready and could possibly regress in their development. I'm not as afraid on that issue. A line with either Cozens or Mitts along with Olofsson, Cozens if not the center and a goal scoring sniper brought in from a deal is an approach that I am open to. There are a number of options to consider that although not necessarily the best options are still good options that will upgrade the roster

I would make the Cirelli deal as you pose it on the condition that the player who will be an URFA next year signs a contract with us. If not, then it makes no sense. If a deal for a 2C can't be made then keep Risto (a Krueger favorite) and utilize your draft pick on a quality prospect. I have no problem including our first round pick in a deal for a 2C. But if the player coming back isn't locked into a longer term contract then you are putting yourself in a vulnerable situation in a year or two. That's not how a smart organization would operate. A lot of attention has been given to Cirelli. But it is more likely that Tampa works out a deal for this high quality young player who will be an instrumental player for them for a long time. Cirelli can take a little less from Tampa and still have a top tier contract because Florida has no state income tax. Also, Cirelli is in a terrific situation with Tampa in that he is on a perennial cup contending team. When all is said and done odds are that he will take the Stamkos route when he was a FA in willing to make a minor contract adjustment to stay in a good situation with the team he is already on.

If in a proposed Cirelli deal he doesn't agree to a contract then there is no deal. That's an obvious call. As far as preferring to move Montour and keep Risto the next question is what is his market value? I don't believe it is much. As I and others have said if you want a genuine caliber 2C it is going to come with a steep price. Montour is not going to be much of a factor in getting a second line player whereas Risto is. I disagree with you that Hutton is done. He is a backup goalie whose starts should be limited. Were his eye issues a factor to his erratic play? I'm not sure. The bigger factor that relates to this team's success beyond other personnel moves is the play of Ullmark. If he can consistently play at a solid (not top tier) level that will be the biggest factor in this team being better. As I stated in a prior post if this team gets consistent solid goaltending and it can clean up its PK problems this is an improved team. That is not to say that other moves don't need to be made that better balances out the roster. It's my strong belief that if this front office makes a few judicious moves with the bulk of this roster still in tact this team can move up the ranks. In the NHL with its designed parity resulting from the cap system the difference between being a playoff team and being middling team is miniscule.

Before trading for Cirelli who is going to be a RFA next season you would have to know whether he would sign a contract with us. It would make no sense to sign this exceptional player by giving up valuable assets only to see him leave in a couple of years. Assuming that he would sign I would be willing to give up Risto, Mitts and our first pick. If our GM could get Tampa's lower first round pick in the deal that would be terrific, however if not I would still make the deal. Most everyone agrees that adding a 2C is an imperative. But if the organization can't swing a deal to fill this void there should still be an awareness that what would make even more of a difference than upgrading the 2C is getting better play from our current goaltenders and better PK play. With improvement in those two areas this team will be given a major boost.

That must have been the long distance call from Pittsburgh that I missed! ?

The issue isn't having elephant sized cajones or having shriveled up miniscule cajones. It's about trading assets to get other asset/s in order to better balance the roster. It was reported that last year that Botterill tried to trade Risto. He couldn't get what he considered a fair value return. So he didn't make a deal. That was the right thing to do especially after being fleeced in the ROR boondoggle. If a fair-value return can be made then it should be made. If it can't then stay the course and upgrade the roster in other areas. Yes be bold but also be smart.

If you are going to acquire a 2C in a deal, even in a packaged deal, I doubt that the trading team will include their lower first round pick. A young but established 2C is a valuable commodity. If you want to secure one you have to pay a steep price.

My prediction is that this pick gets dealt in a package deal that will bring in a genuine 2C or even second line winger who can score goals. The imperative to make this a competitive/playoff team next season is to forestall Jack from getting so frustrated that he publicly declares that he wants out. The fanbase understandably is restless. They deserve some bold moves to inject some hope to an exasperated and fatigued fanbase.

Your reasoning on Mitts makes a lot of sense but I slightly disagree with it. What Mitts needed, and so did Tage, is a lot of playing time and an opportunity to play a number of different roles such as the PP and PK etc. Mitts was a HS star who was supremely better than the players he played with. There was a sense of entitlement that he had when he was given playing time instead of earning playing time. It certainly didn't serve him and help with his development. I still believe that Mitts can be a good NHL player. He certainly has skills. What he needed was the time to emotionally and physically mature. In my opinion playing full time in Rochester when he became a pro would have served him well to the point that he would now be a more established player in the NHL and with a higher trajectory as a player. Ultimately, the short circuiting of the process didn't do him and the organization any favors. With respect to Cozens I consider him to be more emotionally and physically mature than Mitts when he entered the league. I'm not advocating Cozens to start off as a 2C but if he shows he can handle the role then I would have no problem with him assuming the role. My sense is that Cozens is more mature and resilient than Mitts was so if it didn't work out right away it wouldn't set him back.

I've heard from 3 or 4 draft analysts on the radio that if you stay in the top ten range (as you noted) you will come away with a very good prospect. And they all seem to agree that if you are drafting within the top three location you will come out with an exceptional prospect.

It's interesting that you brought up the Staal option because it was discussed on WGR's the Instigator Show. When that scenario was brought up Marty Biron stated that Staal had no interest in leaving Minnesota. Biron mentioned that the Bruins wanted to acquire him this year for a Cup run. Biron noted that Staal would not agree to the move. So although the option of getting a stopgap veteran 2C is a good idea it doesn't apply to an unwilling player like Staal.

You and I are in accord. But I'll even go farther than you on the Mittelstadt mishandling. He should instead have been sent to Rochester when he first entered the pro ranks and fully immersed in the AHL until he demonstrated that he was ready. Mitts has skills but physically and emotionally he was not ready. I hope that this mishandling due to force feeding the development process doesn't result in another Gregerenko (sic) situation, i.e. playing a touted prospect when not ready. My same reasoning applies to Tage Thompson. He should have sooner been sent to Rochester to get more playing time and more time to physically develop. It takes tall and lean young players time to physically mature before they are ready to play with the thicker men in the NHL. It might seem that I am contradicting myself but I'm not in saying if there is a young player ready to make the NHL leap it is Cozens. He probably isn't ready to be a 2C right now but from a physical and maturity standpoint he is ready to play in the big league right now. It's a moot point because due to the AHL rules he is too young to play in the league and too good to benefit playing in the juniors. He is our 2C in waiting, and that wait won't be too long.

Botterill thought that Mitts was ready for the 2C role. He grossly miscalculated and it was a factor in him losing his job. The past is the past and this offseason is a new offseason with opportunities to pursue. Can Adams and the new regime successfully address some of the major needs that have lingered for too long? I hope so. Attached is a 4 minute link from NHL.com with Marty Biron interviewing Cozens and showing some of his highlights. I don't know if Cozens will play any of the center positions this year but I do expect him to contribute. https://www.nhl.com/sabres/

I'll just take one of the players you listed and point out the complicating factors that make such a deal difficult to consummate. Nazem Kadri would have been a terrific addition to the Sabres. He would have filled the second line center role and added some toughness to the roster. But that deal was unlikely because Toronto had little interest in making a deal with a divisional rival that they often played. Even if the Sabres offered more than what Colorado gave up, Barrie plus other considerations, the Leafs wouldn't want to strengthen their cross the border rival. I'm hoping this offseason the new GM and his staff can make a deal for a credible second center. My only caveat is that under no circumstances am I willing to include Cozens in a deal.

What were the asking prices? I said it before and I will continue to maintain my position that using our first round pick for Cozens instead of dealing it away will prove to be the right move.

The price for Miller was a first round pick. That pick was used for Cozens. For me keeping the pick and selecting Cozens will prove to be the better course to have taken. If you have a different opinion that is fine. On the other hand I would have no reluctance to use this year's first round pick in a deal to acquire a second line forward. I have said it in other posts and without an qualification: Cozens should not be dealt unless it is a crazy deal that will benefit dramatically benefit us. In the real world I don't see that happening.

There is no question that there is a gaping hole at the 2C spot. Tell me who the GM could have brought in last year to play the 2C spot? The top 2 center positions are prized commodities. Teams that have them are reluctant to part with them unless the return is sizeable. The Sabres were a rebuilding team. They had numerous major needs. Filling those high level needs (second line caliber of players) was not going to happen in one offseason. The GM dangled Risto last offseason to attempt to address the second line. After scanning the market the return was not sufficient. Again, let me know who you thought could have been secured as a 2C last year and at what price? note: I didn't deliberately highlight the response. For some reason the post came back highlighted.

The ROR deal turned out to be a crusher that to this day reverberates. I understand why the GM felt that he needed to trade the disgruntled center who publicly let it be known that he wanted out. The GM was facing a bonus date for the player and he didn't want to be locked into a player on a long term contract who wanted out. The GM was in the early process of rebuilding the roster and didn't want an unhappy core player to contaminate the young roster. It doesn't take much hindsight wisdom to recognize that this was a stupendous mistake. In the deal with St. Louis we they weren't even willing to give up one of their top two prospects for one of the best two way centermen in the league. So Botts settled on Tage as a piece in the deal. Maybe he will turn out a good player but it is still in question. The moral of the story in the ROR saga is not to act out of desperation. If he needed to be dealt then you either get fair value in return or wait until you do. I also feel the same way in a proposed Risto deal.

He was a reasonable add for a reasonable price. Even though it is apparent that he is not a #2 center he is a solid and intelligent player added to a roster that needed additions. I don't want to get carried away because we have to see how things work out but I thought the Kahun-Johansson-Olofsson line showed some promise as a line in their short period together. It wouldn't surprised me if this line is put together Kahun ends up being the center. Botterill rightfully receives a lot of criticism. However, he should get credit for his deals for Jokiharju and Kahun without giving up much. Both of these transactions were sneaky good deals that are going to have long term benefits.

The issue for Ryan Johansen is not that I wouldn't give up Montour and a 2nd rounder for him as it is would I take him on for five more years at $8 million dollars. I would say no because I strongly believe that in a year or so Cozens could be a second line center, and for the immediate term give you playing time at a lower line. I don't see Tampa dealing Cirelli. They will work out something to retain him. Again, I'm not giving up Cozens. I would be willing to deal Risto and a first for Cirelli but I would have to secure his services on a long term deal first. Would I sign Hall for 7 years at $9 million? No, I don't think he is worth the annual cost or the length of the term. Again, Cozens for me is an untouchable. I will not yield on that issue. I'm confident that he will be a very good player and on his first contract he will provide the team with cap flexibility to pursue other good player/s that other teams can't afford to keep. Again and again, Cozens is an untouchable.

I agree with your take. Where I diverge a little is that the acquisition of a genuine second center is an expensive proposition that will be very costly, maybe to the prohibitive point. Your second option of focusing on a team that needs to shed salary is a more likely option. And even with that option it will require a lot. Maybe the best option for the short term is to acquire a veteran center who can play on the second line at an acceptable level. I think that Botterill had this approach in mind when he acquired Johansson. Let's not forget the hope is that Cozens will be ready to be the second center in a year or two.

As I stated in a prior post the value many are placing on our players is much higher than they actually have on the market. Both Mitts and Thompson have not demonstrated that they can develop into anything more than third line players, if that. As I stated before if you want to procure a second line center you will have to give up talent that will result in deficits in other areas. Under no circumstances am I dealing Cozens or even Joki. Maybe our best option is getting a veteran second tier second center who is more of a third line center as a temporary fix until Cozens develops into hopefully our second center?

I'm not sure how much value Montour has in a trade especially since his contract is either up or will be up in a year. It was widely reported last year that Botts sought to trade Risto prior to the season. Apparently the return wasn't as great as anticipated. So he was retained. There are many people who are forcefully advocating for a trade to get a second line center. The cost is very high.