JohnC

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I believe that there is a role for VO, maybe not in the long-run but for the short-term. There is no question that he faded to oblivion in the second half of the season. I'm not even sure what line he is most suitable for next year. But he still has a laser shot that when he is on, he is an asset. And maybe there is a role for him on the second PP unit? Undoubtedly, there are players in the pipeline who will replace him. But for the short-term I believe he still has some utility. I'm aware of the overwhelming majority of people disagree with me. That's okay.

The Sabres have accumulated enough talent where players are being properly slotted to their talent level. There is a number of line options that can be assembled among the group of Cozens, Quinn, JJ, Greenway, Mitts and maybe even Savoie. Right now, I'm not worried about what the best combinations will be next year because Don G has demonstrated a talent of making the pieces fit. And he has also shown an ability to mix up the lines and pairings within the game in order to change the dynamic when needed. What's become evident as the talent base increases, the options for the coach also increases.

I'm not chortling over someone eating crow. I've been wrong as much as right in many of my opinions. My table is more than full of bad tasting black feathers, so that doesn't give me the right to comment on anyone else's culinary habits. However, let me comment on Mitts's recent play. Yes, it was elevated, especially when he played on the top line. And that is the reason why his production significantly improved at the end of the season. The improvement was due to the fact that he had players who get themselves in a good position to score and convert his passes. The challenge for the coach next year is to assemble a line with players who can maximize his talents. I believe with Mitts, as a center or even a forward, the Sabres have enough talent to put together a 2B line.

If you see Borgen in some ways being similar to Lyubushkin, you are basically categorizing him as a third pairing type of player. That's the point I am making. I would be happy adding that caliber of player to the mix. In fact, if we add two of those type of players to the unit it would be very beneficial. It would bulk up the unit and create much needed depth.

I watch him as much as you watch Mitts. 🤡 I hope you take that clown comment in the right spirit of friendly jabbing back. Getting back on course, one of the reasons that I'm more accepting of Joki as a #4 defenseman is that I categorize him as a complementary player. He's not a lead player on the second pairing. He's a support player who allows Power to control the play as the dominant player on the pair. If a better player is added to the unit, then he should/would drop to a lower pairing. What I find interesting is that whenever I hear Granato talk about Joki he seems more positive about him than crowd here is.

That's the point that I was making. That he is more of a third pairing player than a second pairing talent. The goal would be to bring in a talent that would lower his pairing and better slot him where his talent would suggest. I would be more than happy to add him to the unit to upgrade the lower half of the unit. I want to note that I have a higher view of Joki than 99% of the audience here. I have no problem with him being a #4 player on the second pairing. I consider him to be a 4/5 defenseman, leaning toward the fifth spot. As I have said many times, if a better player is added to the mix, then he will get dropped to a lower pairing. That would be a good indication that the unit's depth is thickened.

I didn't come close to saying that he is bad. I simply asked if you considered him to be a second-pairing caliber of player. If Borgen was on the Sabres, I doubt that he will be a second-pairing defenseman.

Jersey has recently had a number of high draft choices. I've watched a portion of a number of their games and come away very impressed. It seems as if in relatively short period of time this young core has demonstrated that they are already good, with plenty of potential to get even better. To state the obvious, their style of play is fast skating, full length skill hockey compared to their former clog the middle and suffocating defense that relied on muscle more than skill. Their former sluggish brand of hockey got them a lot of victories but from an entertainment value it was soul-crushing. They have accumulated a number of young players who are ready to play in this league. We also have accumulated a number of good young players who may need a little more time (Quinn, JJ, Power etc.) but have shown that they can play in this league. I would guess that we are a year behind them. Hopefully, we can also make the quantum leap next year as they did this year. Just because he plays on the second pairing doesn't mean he is a second pairing caliber of player.

I pose this as a question more than a statement: Are we on the same track as New Jersey? We, like they have, had a number of high draft picks that in a relatively short time span have matured into good NHL players, with still a sizeable upside to their group. We may be a little behind them (maybe a year or so) but the roster building approach seems to be the very similar. If that is the case, then it augurs well for us.

After reading your well out thoughts the comparison and contrasts of the current regime to its predecessors is starkly evident. KA didn't undo everything that his predecessors did. He gets credit for getting a good return on the assets that he dealt away but he should also get accolades for making the right choices in who to keep and how to utilize them. Some would say that the players he needed to keep were obvious to all. I don't think that is necessarily true. Maybe keeping Tage, Dahlin, Mitts were not challenging decisions, but that's only half of the equation. All three of these players were not only kept but also used differently. And what shouldn't be a surprise is that their production quickly went up. It was KA who elevated Granato as an interim HC to replace Krueger, and then installed him as the permanent HC after the season. The consequence of that coaching decision was that the team internally improved before outside assets were added. What KA did is bring in quality staff to rebuild the organization that was torn down, covid certainly was a factor in that disassembling. Besides elevating Granato to be the HC, he also added Karmonos to work with him in reconstituting this organization. That was a critical hire because he added someone with GM type experience, something that he didn't actually have. If you take an overview perspective what is evident is that the organization is in sync from top to bottom. There is a level of synchronicity throughout the system that didn't exist before. What distinguished KA from his predecessors is that there is more analysis and less scrambling to address an issue/deficiency before making decisions. And in that process is a willingness to be more patient when addressing a problem. Anyone who has followed the Sabres for a long-time can't deny the fact that this version of the organization is functioning much better. There is a degree of coherency that didn't exist for a long time. There may have been a time-lag but the results are now following.

Why do you think that?

Every GM in the league has to contend with cap issues in some form. It's not unusual that teams are forced to trade players they would prefer to keep. If Buffalo offered more for Miller than any other team, he would with no hesitation make the deal. It's a business and not personal. As far as his history with Buffalo, it's so long ago that he probably has no memories of his time here.

Very few people, if any, have been clamoring for him to be on our third pairing or even on the roster. He's a fourth pairing and depth player. I just don't understand your fixation on him and expenditure of energy on such a fringe player. I have no problem having him on the roster serving that role. If and when the Sabres add players to the unit, he will get bumped out of the lineup. (As you noted.) There's unanimity on this site that more talent needs to be added to the unit. We all are in agreement on that issue. That's where we are at.

I'm not going to exaggerate his talents. But we fundamentally disagree on the caliber of player he is. He may not have the muscular traits that you desire but he is a better complementary defenseman than you make out to be. I also believe that the coach has a different and more positive view of him. I consider him to be a 4/5 player leaning more into the 5 spot. We simply disagree on this issue. That's okay.

If Miller was added to our roster, I would be ecstatic. He could be paired with Power, dropping joki to the third pair. An addition such as Miller would have such a cascading positive effect on that unit. Although making the cap numbers work out would be a challenge, I just don't see the Rangers allowing him to leave.

Are you aware that you are agitating @GASabresIUFANby suggesting that Stillman will be on the roster next season. He's already in a frenzied state over that roster spot. He needs to be tranquilized, not poked at. 😄

You are going to be in a state of apoplexy next season when Stillman and Joki are introduced on the PA system in the first home game as members of the 23-24 Sabres. I agree with you that the GM needs to add to the unit. Based on the GM's pursuit of Chycrun, I'm confident that a 4/5 defenseman or maybe even two will be added to the roster. I don't understand your constant haranguing about Joki. It's become an obsession with you. He is a 4/5 defenseman. If a better player is added, then he could be dropped to the third pairing. You may have a jaundiced view of him but his coach certainly doesn't have that same evaluation of him. It's the opposite. He repeatedly states that he believes that this young player will get even better. You bring up an interesting issue regarding Lyubushkin. There was maybe a sequence of half dozen games where I thought he was one of our better players on that unit. Other than that, he was generally average to sometimes solid. I got the impression that he was hurt for most of the season. If he can be a consistent third or even fourth pairing player, it would be such a bonus.

Stillman is still a young player. Even if his upside is as fourth pairing player, you got him for a player who is more likely not to even become a NHL player. If you can get another lower pairing player for a fifth round pick, then add that player to roster and create more depth on the thin unit. I just don't understand your reasoning that giving up nothing for something is worthy of scoffing at.

How is it a bad deal to give up a player that you believe is unlikely to become a useful or even a NHL player in the league for a defenseman who is a lower pairing player on your roster? Stillman is a young player. Even if at best he remains a lower pairing player that doesn't mean that he can't be a capable player at that pairing level. That's not a wasted move. It's a good move.

Let me add to what you said about Golisano's business savvy. What Golisano did when he bought the team is closely review the books from the prior ownership. What he saw was financial chaos and a lot of intermingling of funds. He quickly got that in order. He established hard budgets for all the departments including the core of the business, the hockey operation. Although the tight budgets crimped the hockey staff from making some decisions they wanted to make, it benefited the hockey operation and business in general by forcing the operaton to be more disciplined and analytical when making decisions. He quickly changed the culture and ethos of the franchise by bringing order and discipline within the company. As you point out, he demonstrated his business savvy by buying low and selling high. He got a good return on his investment in a relatively short period of time. Good for him. There is another aspect relating to character in this story. The franchise was in bankruptcy. When he took-over he wasn't required to pay all the debts accrued from the vendors and service providers because of the bankruptcy rules. He paid them off anyway. When asked why, he simply said it was the right thing to do and that he wasn't in the business of stiffing people. What's clear is that Tom Golisano is a tough businessman; and he is also an honorable person.

This link taken from NHL.com doesn't answer your question about what percentage of ownership Quinn has. However, it is a 5 min + segment that talks about him getting involved with Golisano to buy the Sabres. At the end of the segment, Quinn talks about how important the Commissioner, Bettman, was in keeping the franchise in Buffalo. It should be highlighted that Golisano, a person who had little interest in hockey, was instrumental in keeping the franchise in Buffalo. https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/larry-quinn-interview-21320/t-277437090/c-5252437

I don't know of any high-profile player in any sport with a prominent role on a team who had his role marginalized who wouldn't have in some form publicly express his displeasure. Skinner simply couldn't proficiently play the style of play that Krueger wanted. He put in the effort to adapt to Krueger's system. It wasn't a match and would never be a match. I don't remember any twitter responses or critical comments to reporters about the coach. The player bided his time and allowed time to catch up with the coach's failed approach to the game. Another player who had to be frustrated by the shackles of Krueger's approach to the game was Dahlin. I'm not saying that he didn't exhibit any frustration playing for Krueger, but I don't recall any public expression of it.

Playoff hockey is at another level. Ryan Reaves pumping up his team when given the duty/honor to read the roster before the game. https://www.nhl.com/news/ryan-reaves-enthusiastically-reads-minnesota-wild-starting-lineup-before-playoff-matchup/c-343827886?tid=281396148

Kris Baker's discussion on the Sabre Sabre prospect pool was terrific. It highlighted the fact that Savoie and Kulich are high end prospects who next year will be legitimate NHL prospects. The takeaway from this clip is that the system is filled with a robust number of good prospects. At the end of the clip Baker talks about Ryan Johnson. He likes him a lot and strongly believes that Buffalo would be a good situation for him to come to.

A while back on WGR, Granato was talking about Skinner when he was virtually exiled as a player by Krueger. He said what impressed him about Skinner was that even though his role on the team was severely diminished, he was still one of the hardest workers in practice. The coach noted that he did more post practice individual skill training than any other player. The more that the former coached buried him, the harder that he worked on his game. He had an irrepressible spirit that couldn't be broken by a misguided coach.