jame

So it’s impossible for me to know the unknown but you are fully capable of knowing the unknown. This is me showing restraint.

It is known. A deadline limits return. In fact Botts came out and stated exactly that (“the cost would go up”). a deadline is used to force a result, to drive a negotiation towards compromise. The trading of a star player should never be executed within the framework of finding a compromise. Instead, you do what Colorado did. They set a high value, and didn’t trade their disgruntled star until that value was met... even when it meant starting the season with that player... I think finding an example would require researching contracts and trade dates. I am currently not willing to put in the effort Botts failed to get either a top prospect or a guaranteed premier pick for 5 years of an all star center. its embarrassing

Really? It’s almost like you don’t think NHL buyouts exist. owners flush huge amounts of money down the toilet all the time, when it’s in the best interest of the team. There is not much material difference between pay a huge signing bonus and then trading a player because that money bought you a better outcome for your Team (trade value), and paying a huge buyout because that money bought you a better outcome for your team (cap space)

Nope.

Samuel Girard was a blue chip prospect. Comparison wise, it would’ve been like us getting Jordan Kyrou or Robert Thomas. They got / we got Girard >>>>>>> Nothing Kamenev = Thompson Ottawa protected 1st >>> St Louis Protected 1st Bowers >>>> Nothing 2nd rounder = 2nd rounder 3rd rounder > Nothing Hammond cap dump > Sobotka cap dump Nothing >>>> 4 years of Berglund contract Botts didn’t even land on the same planet as Colorado...

Player values don’t shift as much as perceived... most GMs / scouts rely on their work and profiles they’ve built. right now, teams value short term... more than 20+ game rentals. Scandella absolutely has more trade value right now... than next deadline when his value at absolute max would be a 2nd rounder (rental cost standards exist). right now, we could conceivably get a decent forward with an extra year or two (ideally center capable), for Scandella but I am curious... if there was a 28 year old forward, with center capability, never scored more than 35 points in a season, and signed for 1 more year at the same cost as Scandella (or less)... would you make a straight up hockey trade of Scandella for a hypothetical player X ? our d group for this year and next year, would be: Dahlin-Bogo Pilut-Risto Mccabe-Beaulieu/Hunwick/Nelson/Guhle

His one and only major move is the ROR and it was a total disaster trade. He got mediocre futures (look at the Duchene haul, the ROR trade pales in comparison)... and he took on two colossally stupid cap dumps. Of course, once again his awful decision making is mitigated by the craziest stroke of luck ever (a player walking away from 4 years of cap waste.... Dahlin = luck (winning lottery) Skinner = luck (full NMC Clause allowed him to dictate Toronto or Buffalo or nowhere)

I wouldn’t put it past Botts to have such a poor perspective... but let’s break this down: 1. Botts has stated he won’t be trading futures for rentals 2. Botts has stated how much he values getting the young core playoff experience first conclusion: Botts will look to make a “hockey trade”... that’s a player for player type deal. 1. What’s the deepest NHL position on the current Sabre’s roster? LD 2. Who are the top LDs on the team with a long term or potential long term value to the Sabres? Dahlin, Pilut, McCabe (age/RFA). You could even debate adding Beaulieu to this list given his age and RFA status. second conclusion: the most expendable/tradeable asset is 1 of Scandella, Hunwick, and Beaulieu 1. Beaulieu has been a scratch level #6-8 defensemen for the last 2 years. He’s trade value is minimal, and certainly not something that would help with a playoff push 2. Hunwick was a cap dump level player, who could maybe pull a late round pick as a team could value the depth... but he certainly doesn’t have the value to return an asset that would help with a playoff push 3. Scandella, through all his flaws this year, is still an under 30 year old defensemen, who has played top 4 pair minutes for most of his career, and has an additional year of below market value cost control. final conclusion: Scandella is the best asset we have to improve our playoff chances this year, without sacrificing a piece of the future.

Trading him based on a signing bonus deadline... a good, experienced GM would’ve been capable of convincing an owner about how much that would affect the return and put the team in a hole. one can easily point to the return Colorado got for Duchene by waiting... well into the season... to trade Duchene.m (and their were similar lockerroom narratives coming out of Colorado at the time). A good GM knows talent wins, and winning builds culture. Subtracting talent, to build culture, to then win... is a stupid approach. Botts is going to survive by lucking his way in to two additional high talent players. as to the bolded... yes, absolutely. My position is as unknown as those who use a culture/lockerroom narrative to defend the move.

ROR as Frodo would work... if a Moronic Gandalf sent him to the undying lands before allowing him to ascend Mount Doom and complete the mission. A foolish Gandalf overreacted to the impact of the ring on Frodo’s mental state and figured that the remaining members of the fellowship could get the job done without him.

Or Botts is not competent or experienced enough to make good decisions

Lehner, like numerous other players in the Botts era wasn’t held accountable. Lehner should’ve been on waivers... it don’t care if he would’ve been claimed (he wouldn’t have). The hindsight is that clearly a “wake up call” is what Lehner needed. So it turns out that what would’ve been best for the team, would’ve also been what was best for Lehner and could’ve produced a different outcome other than flushing an asset down the toilet.

You chose to play the “I know what you would say” card... that’s on you. And that type of lazy attack method is more offensive than pointing out it’s laziness. Nice job quoting the entire exchange and leaving out the 2nd time you arrogantly presumed and ascribed an opinion on me. Why did you feel the need to relitigate this? Feeling guilt? No one is dying in a hill.

First, you’re wrong again. Last year I wanted Ullmark up after it was clear that the Lehner/Johnson tandem was a disaster. Similarly I’ve called for Olofsson and Pilut to be in Buffalo since day 1. There is a difference between 20 year old professional rookies who I don’t think are ready (Tage, Mitts), and 23-24 year old professionals. your attempts to “know me” are ridiculous fails second, I answered this in my original response. I guess your argument is that I’m a liar.... it is interesting that you’ve made your entire argument about me, and not Botts. And to see you retreat to an argument that is essentially “you don’t know what would have happened” while simultaneously pretending to know what I would’ve thought is... let’s say, mildly entertaining. Re: claim... you failed to deal with the facts I presented. Objective facts. Name a 4 million dollar player who has been claimed off waivers mid season? third, no. The first time you attempted to interject a fact, and you’re wrong (qualifying offer doesn’t require a raise). The rest of your points are irrelevant. The point was that one team was able to get Lehner right and put a playoff system in place around him. The winning scenario was putting Lehner on waivers to try to help get him right... it was the only winning scenario. If he got claimed (which there is literally zero evidence or logic to believe he would), then organizationally we are in no different place than we are today. If he didn’t get claimed, and it didn’t generate a wake up call, then we are in no different place than today. But if it did generate the wake up call, we could be in a different place. the fact that you put so much effort into making this about me, is evidence that being a fair judge of Botts is not something you are willing to be.

Your presumptuousness is a lazy attempt to gain an argumentative advantage without having to defend your own view.

Thank you

Really liked Erod-Reinhart combo tonight, I want to see that pair stick when Mitts returns skinnet-Eichel-Poms Olofsson god dammit!-Erod-Reinhart Sheary-Mittelstadt-Thompson Girgs-Larry-Okposo

You’re absolutely correct.

I don’t know why you think that... maybe because it’s a lazy way to debate.

4 million dollar goalie performing at an unqualifiable level don’t get claimed mid season on waivers. How many 4 million dollar players have ever been claimed mid season? he ended up getting signed for 1/4 of the money, well into the offseason, after every other team said hell no. its also worth noting that the team that finally signed him... wasn’t under the same coach/management structure. Regardless... so what if he’s claimed? Once the season was long gone, what was the risk in sending him to Rochester? He either gets to Rochester and gets the wake up call and you benefit from that... or he gets claimed, in which case he gets the wake up call elsewhere which is no different than the outcome we found ourselves in... other than the fact that we arrived at that outcome via Botts doing nothing instead of something. i wouldn’t have faulted Botts for being proactive and trying to help/fix Lehner. I fault him for not having the skillset

That’s because technically a 3 way trade is not “legal”. Per the CBA a trade can only involve two teams, which is why a 3 way is really just two or more separate transactions.

How did I know you’d take the opportunity to appeal to a single game authority...

Sounds like someone got a talking to after the first islanders goal ?

Same

Heck of a 2nd period.