jame

Unless you're putting 2-3 top end assets on the board, we aren't sniffing Couturier. Start with two 1sts and Mittelstadt... and be ready to add.

Who needed 20+ games to see that Moulson was no longer an NHL player? Who brought in Pouliot, Tennyson and Griffith for NHL jobs? He started a season with 33% of a roster that is not in the NHL 18 months later. There were better moves available, and cap space to make them. And then, when marginal upgrades were available on waivers... he passed. How can you say he gave them a chance? Methodical? Choosing a rebuild plan that will buy him the longest leash possible is not methodical. Not re-evaluatiing the plan after lucking in to Dahlin is not methodical.

Either answer to that question IMO, is a failure. 1. He thought it would work = He's an idiot 2. He knew it wouldn't work, and thus tanked in Eichel's 3rd season = He's an idiot The Bills didn't have Andrew Luck.

Let's not forget that he took them from ~80 point team... to last place. Now, thank GOD we won the Dahlin lottery... because otherwise, Botts tanked a season WITH Eichel on the roster. Which is crazy. He actually went in to the season with a straight face putting guys like Tennyson and Griffith and Moulson on the roster. He did that... by choice. The biggest mistake Botts made was not realizing how much Dahlin changed the equation. By winning the lottery, he should've changed course slightly to recognize that he'd just landed a generational player who would make a difference immediately. The availability of Skinner and some depth moves. Whoever had the desire to move ROR (Whether it was largely influenced by Pegula, or a decision Botts made on his own), it should've been changed the day the lottery was won.

They were both UFAs who Buffalo made massive offers to, and neither even came to meet with the team. Parise did not sign with his "current team", he went from NJ to Minny. Stamkos, although he re-signed, went to market. Yes, we offered Tavares too.

I think most sportsbooks have our playoff odds around 40% right now. I am surprised you think the change from incapable 2nd line center to high quality 2nd line NHL center has so little impact.

Yes. We are at a disadvantage because Buffalo has been a losing franchise for most of his career. Because he has very few relationships on the team. Because he will have contender level offers, and without experiencing Buffalo's ability to win first hand, he has no reason to believe they will. And yes, the disadvantage has been proven true with Brad Richards, Parise, Stamkos, and on...

I don't know... any difference between the two as prospects is in the negligible to insignificant range... similar to my inclusion of a 3rd vs your inclusion of a 4th.

It's the most relevant debate of the season. Fixing the mistake of the ROR trade should be the priority. Otherwise, we are going to flush season after season down the toilet like we've done in Botts 1st two years. My continued pointing to the ROR trade, is no different than those who disagree and want a slow rebuild continue to point to the Murray trades and the impact they have today.

agreed.... you think Eric Foley is significantly better than Sean Malone?

No. I don't agree at all that there are reasons a high end veteran in his mid 30s would sign here, outside being convinced via a few months in the lockerroom, with the guys, seeing first hand the potential of the team and city. The examples you cited are completely irrelevant to an Eric Staal scenario.

What's your comparable? Rarely does a rental go for a 1st AND a very good prospect. Boston had to give up Lindgren along with the first, but also got NY to take cap dumps But I don't disagree that Staal will be highly sought after and cost a lot.

Using Edmonton to make the case when their roster is in significantly worse shape than Buffalo's is not a strong example. So you think the Sabres have close to no chance to make the playoffs as it stands now? Or you think upgrading the 2C from Sobotka to Staal has a really low impact on the roster's ability to perform overall?

Skinner waived his NTC because he was only willing to go to Toronto or Buffalo (proximity to toronto).... we got super lucky. Okposo signed here because we gave him a ridiculous contract... are you saying we should give Staal a ridiculous contract?

ROR scored 60 points... twice.... in Buffalo.... while basically never playing at ES with Eichel. Over the previous 5 seasons (not counting this year), he averaged 63 points per 82 games. I agree it would cost more than a 1st for Staal, but the additional pieces would be negligible/filler... i.e. SJ 1st, 3rd, Malone. We could look towards the Rick Nash Boston trade for comparable.

So your view is that the Sabres roster has as many holes as the mess in Edmonton? My view is that we have one massive hole.... Edmonton has 4-5

You dont think the "Developmental Pluses" have a better chance of impacting the franchise long term than the less than 20% chance that the late 1st rounder ever makes an impact?

FYI Edmonton missed the playoffs last year. And in all likelihood #4 and 5 never happen. I also think the only way to attract a player like Staal is to add them now, and let them experience Buffalo, the community, the lockerroom and feel that the team is close to contending. Staal will not sign here as a blind UFA. Nor will any other solution to the crater.

So you agree that the current state is hurting development, chemistry and structure.... but fixing that is not worth the cost of a late 1st? This is the part I just don't get.... How is that late 1st, which has about a 50% chance of even making the NHL, and a less than 20% chance of being a top 6/top 4 player more critical than developing and building the players who have already beaten those odds? It doesn't make any sense

I honestly have no idea where you get the bolded... that's not remotely what I said or implied. We have 4 first rounders in two drafts.... we would be able to keep our pipeline stocked the same way most teams in the league do it... with 1 1st a year.... Anyone who thought Berglund/Sobotka would help this team going forward, wasn't fit to judge the trade in the first place. They were brutal cap dumps to take on in the deal. The fact that the Buffalo Media carried the water on this trade, along with the impetus to get it done before the bonus... is all the confirmation that's needed to know that Pegula ordered the trade. A good, experienced GM would've been able to talk a dumb owner out of it. We didn't have one in place to do that. So we got fleeced and created a massive hole that we will likely spend years trying to fix. On the scale of bad organizational moves the ROR trade is on the same scale as Golisano penny pinching Briere, and losing both co caps because of it. And of course Botts deserves some blame for bringing a quitter in to the lockerroom from which he was supposedly trying to purge sadness from.... it was on Botts to ensure Berglund had waived his NTC. Had he done his due diligence, he should've known STL was trying to pull a fast one on Berglund, and that bringing in a guy against his wishes isn't a great idea. Yes, it will take more time... but it didn't have to. Botts very easily could've added the following to the 2017-18 roster: Dahlin and Skinner (two additional star level talents) Bogo, McCabe, Sheary, Hunwick (real NHL depth) Mittelstadt, Erod, Pilut (young NHL talent) Ullmark, Hutton And he could've done it without cratering the roster by subtracting a 65 point Selke caliber NHL center in his prime. But instead, it WILL take more time now... significantly more time. All because of bad ownership/front office decisions.

I understand the disagreement in the generic terms of "Draft picks/Rebuild/Pipeline".... I don't understand it when you break down the hypothetical impact of Staal vs the hypothetical impact of the draft pick. Hypothetical Impact of Staal: Playoffs - Eichel Core experience, winning, no longer a losing franchise. Proper Development/Usage - Mittelstadt, Thompson, etc Hypothetical impact of late 2019 1st rounder 2019-20: None 2020-21: None 2021-22: Maybe Depth 2022-23: Depth/Impact 2023-24: MAYBE BIG IMPACT - Eichel in year 6 of 8 year contract It's sooo much more important for the Eichel core to begin winning, tasting the playoffs.... and to be developing the top talent behind them properly... than it is to have a 4th 1st rounder in the next 2 drafts....

No, it can be for Staal who positively impacts everyone who is critical to our long term success.

Sure take the 2015 draft then... consider that I am advocating trading the SJ 1st, I hope we can agree it’s going to be a late 1st. picks 19-30 in the 2015 draft... in 3.5 years has only produced 2 impact players (Boeser, Konecny) So in the two equal sample ranges he regressed, and you are now leaning on a significantly smaller sample (8 games) to make your case? regardless... I don’t think 4 points vs 6 points is illustrative of anything (other than not belonging In The NHL)

See... I told you ?

Yes, run. This roster minus the ROR trade would give Toronto a run IMO. I’m am eagerly awaiting your presentation of the facts regarding Mittelstadt’s development. I think 2 years would be incredibly optimistic. The players taken 17-30 in the 2016 draft (2.5 years), 8 of them have 0 NHL games, only 3 have more than 22 games, and of the 3 with more, Tage “i don’t belong in the NHL” Thompson leads the way with 82