jame

Not that I think a points metric is wise in comparing C/D... but given that in year 4, Eichel is on a 97 point pace (82 games) and Dahlin's rookie season currently projects to score almost 80% of what Eichel produced his rookie year... would you then project Dahlin to be a 77 point defensemen? You realize 44 points would put him in the top 5 for rookie defensemen scoring over the last 20 years? And none of those guys did it as 18 year olds. Dahlin is a generational talent. Eichel is a franchise center. Phaneuf 49 points / Draft + 2 Myers 48 points / Draft + 1 Werenski 47 points / Draft + 1 Butcher 44 points / Draft + 4 Shattenkirk 43 points / Draft + 4

Why would Dahlin get 20% less than Eichel got... especially after 3 years of cap growth? Dahlin’s rookie year has been significantly better than Eichel’s

The Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury core didn't win a Stanley Cup for 6 years... because they didn't draft well... yea, that's some opinion... that's for sure. Dan Bylsma is with you on this one.

You did nothing of the sort.

Yea drafting Guentzel is why they won, not They acquisition of Dumoulin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Bonino, etc (Insert the worlds biggest eye roll)

We are talking about building through the draft within the context of trading top assets (1st round picks, 1st round prospects). Guentzel and Murray are lottery tickets, not "building through the draft". You would NOT agree if I said, "hey, we can trade our first rounders and still build through the draft... look at Pittsburgh, they built through the draft with Guentzel, Murray, and Rust" Matta is god awful at hockey And you're also dead wrong about 2009.... look at all the talent they traded for, signed, and rented to support Crosby/Malkin. They didn't draft Bill Guerin, Sergei Gonchar, Kunitz, Dupuis, Fedotenko, Satan, Eaton, etc and that's just the 2009 cup team. From the minute Pittsburgh had it's young core in place (Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Orpik, Staal)... they've been aggressively building through trade and free agency. They haven't "built through the draft" since 2006.

It's worth the assets to improve the team now, win now, etc The impact on the ability to re-sign him is an additional benefit.

LA is screwed for a long time... and has two cups. I'll take a decade of being screwed for 1 cup. The Pens have been winning cups without doing much of anything with the draft for a decade... the last time they drafted a 1st or 2nd round player that was meaningful... was Jordan Staal in 2006. This idea that one way is more successful than another is hogwash. It's all about acquiring talent... whether through the draft, trade, or signings. The only thing that matters is making good decisions on who those players are.

He's made over 80 million in his career... not sure why you think money will dictate his next location. It has less to do with avoiding Buffalo, and more to do with Buffalo having nothing more than hope and money to offer. There's a huge difference between having built in relations with a coaching staff, lockerroom and community, along with an informed view of the team's real potential vs Buffalo just being another team with a contract offer out there.

Whichever way you want to play this... you’re still wrong. your statement didn’t align with what I’ve seen, i stated that . You stood by your statement. I validated that you were wrong with TOI stats, along with timelines, and some organizational facts.

Fair

Factually speaking, your statement is incorrect. Over the last 3 seasons, Rakell has played 2/3 of his ES TOI with Getlzaf. He has NOT played a majority of his time at center. He HAS predominantly played wing. there was a 4 week stretch in February-March 2017 when he got some run at center behind Getz, but pretty soon they put him back on wing. they followed that up by acquiring Henrique and signing him long term (effectively ending Rakell’s long term usage as a top 6 center for the foreseeable future in the two seasons since his 4 week run at center, he’s continued to get short stints there, but that has been largely due to injuries to Getz, Kesler, and Henrique. your original statement was backwards... he’s largely been a winger through his career... but has been tried at center and continues to fill in there when injuries call for it. He could still be a center in the future for sure.

Agree on most fronts regarding those players (especially Hayes, his next contract is scary). Which is why I find the Staal rental scenario so much more appealing. Costs less to acquire, a short term extension is a reasonable potential expectation. Sure, there’s risk that it’s only a rental, from which the benefits could be reaped via impact on the roster/outcomes this season

Now that that is settled and we both understand the obvious (we are giving our opinions)... your proposal doesn’t serve your point very well if said proposal is outlandish. Removing the vagueness of trading our futures by saying, “i’d trade 4 first rounders for mcdavid”, is not really making much of a point.

And yours

So you’ve established that big name UFAs stay where they are, go home, or chase a massive contract... the only scenario that would get Staal here is the “staying where they are” scenario which requires acquiring him in advance.

I agree. I think we can get a 2nd rounder for him at the deadline. A team needing a 5-6, and happy to have the additional year. but at the same time, I value D depth. You need 8... in a healthy season, so even though he’s played terrible this year, I don’t mind keeping him.

Rakell is primarily a winger and has played the majority of his career there. theres a zero % chance that 4 years of his well below market, prime age contract would be traded for a handful of draft picks and we get Mountour too?

I just don’t think a competent GM would accept the ROR package for Zib.. and that’s what your scandella (Sobotka), Nylander (Thompson), 1st (1st) is....

No one on that list appeals to me in terms of filling the 2C hole. Most of them aren’t even true centers. Wennberg - contract is terrifying, too much risk Bennet - bottom 6 winger fabbri - damaged goods Fiala - we have a LW logjam, would love to add, but doesn’t address center issue zacha - are you willing to trade Mittelstadt for him? roslovic - we should just call up nylander or Olofsson Jankowski - why would Calgary trade their 3rd line center? Coyle - he’s a center and his contract is a perfect short term fit. He’s always been a fairly underwhelming player. Bjugstad - huge pass on that contract jt miller - not a center, too much term.

Zibenajad was traded for an established top 6 center, Ottawa Didn’t make a futures trade when they moved him, so hard to imagine they’d have done that deal however... New York is rebuilding...and Zib has 3 year and a full NMC about to kick in next year. Could be a good target, but the lack of a top asset has the offer coming up well short

Lol What team (besides Buffalo) is trading a prime aged top 6 center with term for that package?

Not sure Scandella/Nylander/1st gets us what we need...

Rule #1 of building a successful team/dynasty : There are no rules in how you do it, but acquiring talent is the ONLY rule. whether you methodically draft and wait a decade like Winnipeg, or you trade 1sts and top prospects and turn it around immediately LA... the only thing that matters is the amount of talent you acquire.

Yea, in hindsight it’s brilliant...