LikeEich
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Freidman mentioned the only 3 real trade pieces we have now that Kane is gone. The problem is we can't replace any of them and I find it hard to imagine what we'd get back in trade that would improve another area so much as the team would be net better by the trade.
Lets examine the trade candidates
1) ROR - sad comments aside, the guy actually had one of his best pts years playing the 2nd center, with hard minutes on a terrible team. We have no decent or proven centers in the organization behind him and Jack. The Samson at center experiment failed and Casey is much to raw. I can't see a team trading us their 2nd line center for ours and we coming out better for the experience since ROR is also the best faceoff guy in the NHL. We could trade ROR for a top 4 D, but then we'd have to trade Risto to someone for a replacement. That seems like making moves just to make moves.
2) Ristolainen - It may be true that he has had a bad attitude at times. He has an ego and has been carrying the D load for this team for three years with very little help. I'd be annoyed also. Scandella is the first step in the right direction and Dahlin will be step two. Dahlin however isn't ready to carry first line minutes but should be able to lessen some of the load on Risto. So lets trade him now just when the group is rounding out because he doesn't listen all the time. That makes no sense. The best playoff teams are deep on defense. We have 3 maybe 4 with McCabe. So lets ship out our best current D and replace him with ...........? Nelson? Guhle? Who? If you trade him, you'll have to make another move to replace him. At that point it's just musical chairs.
3) Reinhart is the most easily traded of the three, but we have no other proven wingers in the organization except Okposo and he is 30 and coming off his worst NHL season. The kid is under our control for another few years and finally showed signs of reaching his potential. So again why trade him now? The only reason I'd even consider moving him is for a top 4 D of similar age that this is already lock up on a decent contract. Some like Ristolainen for example.
It just seems to me that is this one of the few occasions to show some patience. Keep the core, add Casey and Dahlin, but cleanout the under brush. After Dahlin, Casey, Jack, Sam, Risto, Scandella and ROR, put anyone and everyone of the market and see what is available that may improve the team. If you come up with another miracle package deal to get another Scandella by all means.
We also need to look at what Colorado did. Sakic found three contributors on waivers and made cheap value acquisitions for guys like Wilson and Yakupov.
I also recommend giving many of glut of youngish forwards we have a legit shot. We have nothing to loose with trying O'Regan, Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching, ERod, WIlson, Olofsson even Nylander. We need to find out if they are NHL players and they need an opportunity to prove it. They can't be worse the crap we fielded in our bottom 6 this season.
Not sure how to highlight certain parts of your post, but if I could I would highlight the "best playoff teams are deep on defense"
Last 2 seasons Pittsburgh won the cup, so best playoff team, with arguably the weakest blue line of any playoff team. Not saying it's a proven recipe by any means, but when was the last time a team went back to back cups? A weak blue line can be helped by an incredible offense. A weak offense can be hidden behind a strong defense.
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I'm aware of KOs rough season, but the guy is a top 40 player-yes even last season- at his position. Ya the long term deal blows big ones. And yes the team needs to get younger and faster. I would rather have to push and aging slower bit still productive guy down the lineup, because my younger speedsters are lighting it up, then be forced to give minutes to a kid who isn't ready to be playing them because we have no choice. We have the cap room in the next couple seasons. Use it. Maybe we won't finish last
Not advocating for JVR here. He may not be a fit, while we do have some young guys that appear ready to take the next step, I'm not banking on it by any means. It is very important to note though, not everybody is Leino and Moulson
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Definetly totally forgot Wilson! I also see him being an effective bottom 6 this season.In scenario A, I defintely think you can get Reino on a lower AAV bridge deal in the $4M per range. I dont think thats enough speed with Eichel, JVR + KO cant keep up with him. I would perhaps switch JVR with Baptiste/Erod in your lineup. I would like to see one of GIrgs and Larry gone, you didn't mention Wilson in the bottom 6 who I believe is the best bottom 6 player we have currently. I want nothing to do with Lehner
Scenario B- pipe dream indeed, would be awesome to have JT and Eichel as the top 2 Cs. I think that RoR and a 2nd is a slight overpayment for Pacioretty, but I would still do it.
Scenario C- looks good
Had JVR for goal scoring prowess not foot speed. But ya alot of it was to show our cap flexabilty in signing a good forward or defensemen, on shorter term for more AAV. 3 years or less kind of thing. Wouldn't be detrimental. What I am getting at is we do have quote a bit of room to add and a free agent signing could lead to someone being moved for other needs. Fucale I think we will be a great goalie one day but I could be wrong. But he was a big part of the MTL deal though it probably is an overpayment.
EDIT: yes in option A I elected to go longer term of 7 years in reino. That's why the cap hit is higher to show if that's what JBot has in mind we still maintain some space
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Perreault, Martin, Lafontaine and Hawerchuk.
Current favourite is Reinhart but Dahlin may supplant him.
Didn't like Andrew Peters, never seemed to win a fight.
Agree with all of this, less with Peters. Fan of Risto too. Kane bogo tim Murray and McCormick are my most disliked in that order
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Great post! I agree with most of it but here's a bit of a different take on it.This team did have a serious problem with locker room dysfunction over the past two years. It has been well documented by National and Local Media covering the team. Rob Ray mentioned it his Game Day Appearances on GR, Paul Hamilton has mentioned there is a feeling amongst management that certain players on the team that are not accepting of coaching and that he believes one of those players is Risto. Housley also mentioned on many a night that the team abandoned the game plan.
O’Reilly’s post game comments were a lesson in self deprecation and the his post season feelings are well documented.
Botterill did say he appreciates what ROR said and that he expressed what others in the room might be thinking.
They changed the Coaching Staff last offseason and things did not get better, now it’s time to look at the players. Botterill has had a full season to look the at the organization and see where these changes need to be made. If he feels that the locker room would be improved by trading one or both ROR or Risto and the return makes it worthwhile, he will consider it. Jeremy White mentioned after the trade deadline that the most calls the Sabres received leading up to it where on ROR with Calgary being the most mentioned team.
Unless Kane was a major driving force behind the room dysfunction, there is a strong possibility these problems will continue to plague the team for a third consecutive year.
Depth remains a huge problem for the team, but this one needs to be addressed first
I am not advocating for either to be traded for the hell of it, but if it needs to be done for team chemistry it needs to be done
If Botterill wasn’t at least considering major changes, Friedman’s Comments would never have been mentioned on air and this thread would have never been inspired
https://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/25777-dahlin-major-rebuild/
O'Reilly is an elite 2 way center if nothing else. Truly believe he loves the game and could be captain for alot of teams. An "A" for a deep team Canada says alot. The fact the this losing couture mentality has effected even him, leads me to believe it's not a couple 0layers that are the problem. It's the teams mindset. I mean we can all tell somethings not right when watching can't we? Inability to come back against any kind of adversity most nights. The shadow of doubt, or whatever you want to call it, creeps in and we shut down. Not being competitive for so long will do that to you. I have buddies I beat at nhl so often after I'm up 1-0 they literally think the game is over. Not trying to brag but it's a relatable point. What we need is a sound enough roster,some hope that were in this game, we can skate with these guys and win. Dahlin arrival has already helped that IMO, we have a glimmer of hope when yesterday we didn't. I can feel it, you can feel it, Eichel and ROR and everyone else can too. If a good hockey trade comes up then that's what happens, as long as the on ice product is better for it I'm all ears. Just a take not saying I have it figured out, but here's 3 of my next season rosters, with and without major shakeups.
A-
Baptiste O'Reilly Reinhart*7x6.5 (wishful thinking but a bridge would come in lower cap hit)
JVR*3x6.5 Eichel okposo
Erod mitts pommers
Girgs Larsson Bailey (Bailey baptiste each at 2x950000)
Scandella risto
MCCABE Dahlin
Beaulieu guhle antipin1x1.25M Pilut fighting for time. Bogo hurt but not in LTIR
Lehner3x4.125
Ullmark
Leaves is with little cap flexabilty for a season, nothing too detrimental. Might not be enough term for JVR but because we hit 6.5 we got him. Maybe not realistic but there's a chance.
B
Huge free agent signing of Tavares. This one's more of a pipe dream then A. Enabled us to pull off an Inter-division. O'Reilly and a 2018 2nd rd, for Pacioretty, LW prospect Kerby Rychel and goaltending prospect Zachary Fucale.(potentially different draft pick if MTL is willing to sign Lehner and shop him or keep him)
Pacioretty Tavares Okposo
Erod Eichel Reinhart
Baptiste/Rychel mitts pommers
And the rest pretty well identical to A. Tavares 11.5×7. Reinhart 4.2x2. Leaves us pretty tight to cap. Flexabilty could be found by denoting players such as Beaulieu,or LTIR bogo. With that space a 1yr ufa deal for a goalie could be found as a stop gap.
C- Which I believe will be closest to reality. Maybe not same players but same positions being filled.
LW Matt Calvert signed 1x2.5
Speedster Grabner 2x2M
Grubauer either traded for(As per PA) or slim back door chance of a 1×3.925975M offer sheet(compensation 2nd rd pick, which is maximum before it becomes 1st and 3rd)
Reinhart 3x4.75M grubauer 5x4.75M leaves us with roughly 2M.
Please note this all options reflect a modest 2.5M increase in the cap to 77.5M.
I'd Risto is moved, as one of the only trades we make, I think it would be for a comparable D. Trouba, Hanifin etc... although I don't think him moving is likely. As stated ^, you don't play a guy 28mins a night if you don't trust him.
Sorry for the many grammar and spelling mistakes. Mobile is a biotch and not going to proof read it because hopefully you get it haha. Also forwards can be shuffled and probably will be as needed. Not saying that Bailey belongs in the 4th or baptiste on the 1st or anything of that nature
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Waddell and Dudley maybe?
And I imagine some discussion has been commenced.
Pretty sure Waddell has the interim GM tag
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The lack of depth around them is the problem.
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If nothing else gives us depth, I was a big fan of his late season game.
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Few things to take note of
82 game schedule, pre season games yada yada. More games them he's ever played. Might conditioning become a factor in the ladder part of the season? I believe he will come into camp I'm great shape but it will be far more hockey them he's used to.
Smaller ice (pretty sure shl is on international ice?) Will also be a big adjustment, history has shown us especially for defensemen it is a factor.
6'2 180 pounds, clearly able to play with men but NHL is best of the best. Just turned 18 so there's a chance he comes into camp at 190+. His filling out process will play a role in his development, so it will be worth keeping an eye on.
So many variables and mixed emotions, is probably why were having a hard time agreeing. I picked 10-30 but if 20-40 was an option that's where i would be.
For what it's worth I think his attitude/demeanor in the dressing room will be as big for us as his on ice presence. The kid is captain material and if I was JBot I'd seriously be thinking about rolling 4 A's until he's ready for it. (Prior to winning the lottery I wanted to see Eichel C, I don't think he would take it well at all, and that's a big reason he maybe shouldn't get it.
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Often results in a look out pass...
Sorry not following...
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Totally agree. IMO its usually a good sign when he has fits over HIS play and not his team's. Means the kid knows he can be better and will probably put his nose to the grindstone until he does so.could go either way, i guess.
if it can be properly harnessed, it will be a rare gift.
Edit: never content with his own play, even though it was still a highlight reel. Always striving to be better. No doubt in my mind he harness' it like you say.
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Toronto has the upper hand in roster depth, as well as organizational depth. It's not even close really on both fronts. That being said as stated ^, I believe our core is better and it will take 2-3 years to build the depth up, but we win a cup before the leafs.
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IMO, it's a fantastic thing when you have puck possession, and can turn out quite horribly when you don't. The worst is in the ozone watching buddy try to pick up the puck that's wrapped around the boards on his backhand
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Maybe I'm way out of line, maybe not. 3 weeks ago I actually still had very high hopes for the kid, not anymore. Since I watched the leafs Bruins, I was woefully unimpressed with WNy. Soft player. Even in game 7 avoiding puck battles. If I was coach I would have sat him on the bench ( yes I'm aware Toronto media would have quite literally lynched me). I know it's unfair to judge the kid on his bro, but I see the same the in ANy. Yes very confusing abbreviations I realize lmao
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see Oilers sign some goalie from the KHL who had crazy numbers...still cannot figure out if that league is really bad or what?
Remains to be seen IMO. Definetly potential there bit never impressed in NA. Didn't realize NYI lost his rights or I would have been picketing to give him a shot.
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This post made me curious. Alex Daigle was always the poster boy for blown 1st overall picks. Looking how things have gone so far, wow, Yakupov has a long way to go if he even want to come close to matching Daigle's career.
Yah man. Rough times. Rick Dipietro too. I mean that was kind of compounded by a 15 year deal too though but yikes, nothing is a guarantee. I fully expect Dahlin will be an absolute stud though.
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The only way I can see Rick completely stepping away is after we win the cup. Have him announce the banner raising at the home opener the following season and call the game as a victory lap.
I would love for the team to find ways to incorporate his voice into the gameday production a la Kate Smith in Philly.
Any DJ's or sound engineers in the house that can mix him into the beginning of a goal horn / warm up song?
(Maybe this can be a project for BOGO
No Bogo too useless
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Not sure where to post but ROR named assistant captain for Canada at world championship. Good for the guy he deserves it. Must be an honour
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I doubt they'll beat the sharks, and positive they won't beat nsh or wpg.
They had virtually 0 expectations going into the season. You could tell a few games into the season, they were just having fun. That momentum has snowballed and they just keep living the dream. Absolutely no pressure whatsoever. Nothing in the back of their minds thinking we need to win we can't let x beat us.
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Main reason for saying is, none of the players selected will sniff Mcdavids fart. Not Matthews not Eichel not Laine. I dont remember a dman that highly touted, with the work ethic, that's the most important thing. Kid has more the skill and ability, he has the mindset that only true champions have
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Dahlin 1st every year except 2015, Mcdavid goes 1st. One of if not the smoothest skaters I've ever seen. This of course is based on BPA and not factoring in what teams needed what and so forth. Although I do believe for the most part good Gms will take the bpa.
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ROR and Bogo for nothing would be close to fair. And I like ROR. That's how useless bogo is
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Man, poor Arizona. They get so close every year.
Ya if they had fans, I bet they would be pissed
Trade Speculation and Rumors 2018-19
in The Aud Club
Posted · Edited by LikeEich
Another edit: don't ask for another example I got nothing. Pointless argument right now haha