Thorny
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Posts posted by Thorny
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3 hours ago, Pimlach said:
This makes sense.
Both our coaches and other teams scouts have now had a few more years to look at Rosen, Kulich, Östlund and Savoie. Maybe the shine has come off of a few of them, or maybe a few look better?
Either way, I would be inclined to move on one or two of the four 20-21 year olds, and then add an 18 year old from this draft.
This gives the pipeline more legs.
The idea is that other teams will also value those assets less, though. It’s hard to say which it will be but trade the asset that grants the most valuable return
11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:Thinking more about it. I would prefer to keep this pick and move the prospect(s) the FO thinks think less of.
I know very little about the players in the draft, but if we make a pick at 11 then I hope Iginla is there.
I would also prefer to trade the things I care less about
novel idea
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3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:
What makes you think Savoie is NHL ready?
I agree about too many prospects that are similar though.
More less one of the steps you need to get to in joining the ranks of the good teams. “We have too many prospects for nhl spaces” isn’t a unique problem to Buffalo it’s the commonplace result of icing a competent roster. We are just HYPER unfamiliar. Those players don’t need to be in the NHL. If they need to be, they’d force their way
block or not
It’s the difference between the teams that say “ahhh injuries, what could we have even done?” And those that finish top 16
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5 hours ago, mjd1001 said:
Here is a thought for why you DON'T trade the pick. You trade one or two of your other former first round picks and keep this one...why? The age of the pipeline.
The guy you draft this year is going to what, 17 or 18? You have Östlund, Kulich, Rosen, and Savoie that are all 20-21 years old...why trade the pick for a guy of that 'talent level' who is 17 but keep all your 20-21 year olds? If it is a choice between the 2, I'd rather move one of the 20-21 year olds...and keep 1 or 2....and also keep the 17 year old...rather than move the 17-18 year old and keep all the 21 year olds. Space things out. You have an excess of prospects that are 20-21...I'd rather move one (or two) of them and keep the 17 year old so if or whenever this team gets good, I have him just about ready to move up to the roster when the core of my team is starting to age.
Again, I know you can trade this pick AND a prospect...but I'm saying if you are moving 1 or 2 pieces and that is it, I'd rather move the 20-21 year olds (because you have 3-4 of them)
There’s a draft literally every year. This is absolutely a (far) secondary concern to maximizing whatever trade you make, should you make one
4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:Stop making sense.
Im just trying to keep up. So “don’t expect trades”, but also, “BPA, sort it out through the trade market”
Ah
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17 hours ago, inkman said:
It’s really quite weird how Buffalo media have been pushing narratives (i.e. the WR Train) now this. It only creates a fervor in the fanbase followed by disappointment and anger. Stop pushing your agenda and let these men do their jobs. How many teams want to trade for the 11th pick in any draft? Teams are lucky to find a top 6 forward or top 4 D there. Even then they are 3-4 years away from contributing.
I’d rather they have an opinion than toe the company line - particularly when their opinion is correct
Teams absolutely value the 11th pick
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3 hours ago, dudacek said:
Couldn’t agree more.
Draft the player you think will be the best. Trade for need.
Only works well in theory. Don’t know how anyone could think otherwise when you can read the trade threads detailing how JJ Peterka is off limits for us and Kaako is off limits for the Rangers etc etc. ALL we hear about is how difficult trades for ACTUAL good players are due to the mechanics of deals and the fact that players don’t want to come to Buffalo.
“Collect what you can and use the trade market to balance it all out” *is* an online GM simulator thing. It only works in theory. It works in practice to an *extent* - but we aren’t the team that can go up there and take an offensively obsessed puck moving D. It’s just an added degree of difficulty and asset imbalance that it would be incredibly hubristic to saddle our GM with, when he clearly has enough to deal with already
“BPA full-stop” and “it takes 2 to tango” are used one over the other on this board and clearly represent a team building issue
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If we refuse to trade the pick outright and refuse to budge on our list, complete the trade at the draft when it’s easiest and feasible and move down a few spots: you can take the best player on your list there, with better positional fitting, for what amounts to a likely small talent analysis difference (when you are basically hoping and praying, anyways - no one really knows if you’ll get a better player at 11 or 13) and pick up an asset in the process: granting you full value
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this is the type of pick that would have me quite convinced we are hooked up to a simulation designed to torment
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For the record, BPA doesn’t strictly apply anymore. You can’t just apply a generalization across all cases indiscriminately: the sabres are *clearly* an outsider case at this time, deserving of a nuanced approach. We already NEED to move prospects, you can’t just go up there and take the exact same guy in the mold of your 2 best assets and the guy you just traded your best C for
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What I think of the remaining 8 teams
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23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
When teams know your desperate to make a deal, you get crap offers. Based on how long Adams took to trade Eichel, he won't budge unless there's value coming our way.
You only get crap offers if there aren’t multiple teams competing. I’d imagine something like a high first rounder would have plenty of interest. There’s no selling low on a pick, there’s no sabres stench on it
A bunch of teams were out on Eichel from the get go cause of the preferred surgery aspect
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If it’s a legitimate question at some point we’ve done well on that front imo
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1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:
On the other hand
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An angry fanbase, indeed.
But perhaps the most united I’ve seen the fanbase, the media (whisper of…the organization?) since…the tank? Even more united? (I once supported the tank and now admit it was folly). Is this where we needed to get to, to heal?
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1 minute ago, dudacek said:
And a lot of what I post is usually tongue-in-cheek.
Or it least it used be until it started to feel like no one was getting it.
My sense is my “neutral position” is no longer any where near the middle in terms of what the Sabrespace collective thinks (as much as Sabrespace ever has a collective 😁)
As far as the collective it’s called “the Saborg”
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As for the bold: I’ll pay more attention moving forward
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5 minutes ago, dudacek said:
It feels like I’m have made people angry. I’m not going looking for receipts.
13 years is absolutely the cause.
More arguing, less anger. That’s exactly what would I’d like to see.
It’s not real anger
..That comes in the SECOND ROUND DISCUSSION THREAD
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16 minutes ago, dudacek said:
I take it this is reference to my comment about the Lindy Ruff hiring you’re “butthurt” about?
This isn't a hire for the hardcore fans like us. It's a hire for the next level on the pyramid of Buffalo hockey fans.
Not the guy I would have picked, but if I'm honest with myself his resume probably ticks a lot of boxes if his name wasn't Lindy Ruff and this wasn't the Buffalo Sabres.
I suspect he's going to flame out spectacularly.
But I'm going to go with the way @Thorny is reacting because if I squint really hard I can kinda see it, and giving the latest move a chance is just the way I roll.
Now where's my Scotch?
That one?
The one where I refer to Sabrespacers (like yourself) as hardcore fans, and I agreed with your take as the most optimistic, yet still plausible?
You took that as a shot at your fandom?
The point of the “hardcore fans” line was that Adams wasn’t going to get guys like the Sabrespace crowd to flip by hiring Lindy. Guys like us need to see results. But the next level of fan, the one who has kind of stopped paying attention, this is the type of move that might get them to consider returning.
Take that for what it’s worth.
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From my perspective, the worst part of this season is adjusting to the anger around here.
I mean I fully understand why people are angry. I just hate the fact that I often seem to make them angrier for basically not being as mad as I should be.
The answer seems to post angrier or post less, and it is not lost on me how many Sabrespacers have chosen to do one or the other.
Also, at least 60% of what I post is some sort of joke. Like actually that’s my obvious aim a lot. Sure I flip my lid sometimes but it’s not all one sided. Plenty of posters going the humour route, actually. I think you have a point that there’s some angrier anger at times, and less posting, but I’d also respectfully submit that you are somewhat biased in what you are seeing because of your more neutral position.
I can speak from experience: relative to how this team makes me feel, I come to this board specifically cause it makes me laugh and enjoy things more.
I don’t think I’m especially off base for suggesting you don’t have quite an accurate reading of the board at large: you suggested as recently as yesterday that you “may have worn out your welcome” and I can objectively say you’d be the poster *furthest from doing so* if you polled the board
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15 minutes ago, dudacek said:
I take it this is reference to my comment about the Lindy Ruff hiring you’re “butthurt” about?
This isn't a hire for the hardcore fans like us. It's a hire for the next level on the pyramid of Buffalo hockey fans.
Not the guy I would have picked, but if I'm honest with myself his resume probably ticks a lot of boxes if his name wasn't Lindy Ruff and this wasn't the Buffalo Sabres.
I suspect he's going to flame out spectacularly.
But I'm going to go with the way @Thorny is reacting because if I squint really hard I can kinda see it, and giving the latest move a chance is just the way I roll.
Now where's my Scotch?
That one?
The one where I refer to Sabrespacers (like yourself) as hardcore fans, and I agreed with your take as the most optimistic, yet still plausible?
You took that as a shot at your fandom?
The point of the “hardcore fans” line was that Adams wasn’t going to get guys like the Sabrespace crowd to flip by hiring Lindy. Guys like us need to see results. But the next level of fan, the one who has kind of stopped paying attention, this is the type of move that might get them to consider returning.
Take that for what it’s worth.
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From my perspective, the worst part of this season is adjusting to the anger around here.
I mean I fully understand why people are angry. I just hate the fact that I often seem to make them angrier for basically not being as mad as I should be.
The answer seems to post angrier or post less, and it is not lost on me how many Sabrespacers have chosen to do one or the other.
You aren’t making anyone angry, relax.
Any downturn in posting is down to the team being bad for 13 years. You know, the enormous elephant in the room.
There used to be MORE arguing here. Not less. That’s the point
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4 minutes ago, dudacek said:
I take it this is reference to my comment about the Lindy Ruff hiring you’re “butthurt” about?
This isn't a hire for the hardcore fans like us. It's a hire for the next level on the pyramid of Buffalo hockey fans.
Not the guy I would have picked, but if I'm honest with myself his resume probably ticks a lot of boxes if his name wasn't Lindy Ruff and this wasn't the Buffalo Sabres.
I suspect he's going to flame out spectacularly.
But I'm going to go with the way @Thorny is reacting because if I squint really hard I can kinda see it, and giving the latest move a chance is just the way I roll.
Now where's my Scotch?
That one?
The one where I refer to Sabrespacers (like yourself) as hardcore fans, and I agreed with your take as the most optimistic, yet still plausible?
You took that as a shot at your fandom?
The point of the “hardcore fans” line was that Adams wasn’t going to get guys like the Sabrespace crowd to flip by hiring Lindy. Guys like us need to see results. But the next level of fan, the one who has kind of stopped paying attention, this is the type of move that might get them to consider returning.
Take that for what it’s worth.
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From my perspective, the worst part of this season is adjusting to the anger around here.
I mean I fully understand why people are angry. I just hate the fact that I often seem to make them angrier for basically not being as mad as I should be.
The answer seems to post angrier or post less, and it is not lost on me how many Sabrespacers have chosen to do one or the other.
Yes I did indeed use the word “butthurt”
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3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:
Well everyone's available everywhere theoretically but that's kind of meaningless.
You can’t convincingly argue it’s a meaningless distinction when your view yields an untradeable ….JJ Peterka, and mine argues for trading Dahlin (my favourite player) should an appropriate deal present itself.
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5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Nope
Is this the first time since this version of the lotto was implemented that happened?
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11 minutes ago, Weave said:
You chose your words to describe the second group poorly then. “So exceptional “ certainly paints an image of nearly untouchable.
10 players out of a roster of 23 is nearly half.
Start with, “everyone is available for the right price” and go from there
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The lottery did NOT draw ratings in this thread lol
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So it’s all about Iginla?
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Sharks
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Bouncy balls holding true
NOT CHICAGO
ANYONE BUT CHICAGO
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Needs a haircut.
already not interested
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55 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:
That's not it at all. It should be simple geography.
Aye yai.
you need to watch more sports if you think greatness inspiring hate isn’t a thing.
Yes, half the nba fanbase has legit reasons for hating LeBron with every fibre of their body. Right. Lol
Mahomes is a villain just because
It can be geography too
but the answer to PA’s question about why no one hates us is cause we haven’t been great
Greatness PLUS geography makes leafs fans hate us. It’s a combo
2024 NHL DRAFT Talk
in The Aud Club
Posted · Edited by Thorny
The idea is that you take the best player on YOUR list, but there should be more awareness of the hubris at play, here: so much of it is guessing. To act like you’ll absolutely get better value with the first choice on your list than your second or third is already dicey.
In the early stages of a rebuild imo it’s all about CEILING CEILING CEILING but at the stage we are now, I am of the opinion it would absolutely make sense to “hedge” your bet by picking up an extra asset, locking/banking in some value right away, and then taking a player who has a non-negligible chance of being as good WITH the position premium
there’s literally a discussion going on in another thread with a strong strong “hold your horses, finding good trades can be hard” narrative yet the prevailing wisdom of BPA still shines over here.
The 2 need to be reconciled