Thorny
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Posts posted by Thorny
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1 hour ago, ... said:
Let's say they win the lottery. What if Adams announces that they would trade the number one pick if whomever takes it also takes Skinner and his entire contract. Would you do it?
Absolutely. Should get a crazy haul for it. I don’t even want Adams to be rewarded with the bail-out of the number one pick for failed expectations tbh lol unless we use it as currency. Probably “fool me once” situation if not
32 minutes ago, Weave said:The response is always, show me the return first.
Everything is in play. Always.
Exactly
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Another benefit of winning the lottery should it come to pass would be the debut of a new, Celebrini based timeline to competitiveness
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22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Adams basically just said on WGR they are looking at the bottom 6 to add grit and basically poo pooed any thought of adding to the top 6.
Lol really?
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1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:
I’m not defending Adams with this comment, but for the past 3 seasons he has not been seriously trying to bring in veteran centres (there is a valid criticism regarding it not being a priority).
Since the Krueger firing, Adams has, more or less, executed his plan. We have just come to the 1st point in his process where the plan did not render the results he anticipated. This off-season we will learn a lot.
Fair enough I just liked posing the question because I knew it would necessarily yield a funny answer. Someone would have to either make the case for Krebs, or the case that not adding anyone good at C for 4 years was the plan itself
Sometimes just saying these things out loud represents a very effective skewering of the results
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3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
No one is trading out of drafting Celebrini.
You know how it is with prospects: gotta catch ‘em all
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10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Idk, I don't remember what ppl said back in 2019.
“Bae”
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People who rooted for the bruins last series… now look at this mess
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35 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:
If he brings one in, I think it tells us how loud Lindy’s voice really is.
Maybe, but he’s the guy who wanted Lindy, right? Seemed pretty set on him. If Adams adds a bonafide top 6er we’ll have to give him full credit
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1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:
Yeah and Byram is a Stanley Cup champion. They can get a middle 6 centre.
Who’s the best centre we’ve seen brought in by Adams so far in 4 years? Actually asking
Krebs?
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1 hour ago, RochesterExpat said:
I’m sure this will be received well, but in a hypothetical Leafs rebuild where NMCs get freely waived (which is what the Make Believe fan base seems to expect), would you consider trading for Tavares as a 3C?
Tavares is overpaid at a cap hit of $11m for one more year. Since few—if any—teams can afford to eat that outright, a 25% retention is probably the starting point. That lowers his hit to $8.25m for the 24-25. Buffalo is able to accommodate that, but that’s probably the starting point for Buffalo to consider and I think it could/should go lower.
His last three seasons:
2021-2022: 79 GP, 27G 49A 76P
2022-2023: 80 GP, 36G 44A 80P
2023-2024: 80 GP, 29G 36A 65P
He turns 34 at the start of the season and Tavares will essentially be a cap dump by Toronto. His acquisition cost should be minimal. Leafs fans will probably celebrate a bag of pucks going their way because, at least in part, the Toronto media likes to scapegoat him for the Leafs playoff exits. His contract is the problem—not the player. He is still a productive center with 1,109 regular season NHL games under his belt.
The big downside to signing him is that he is not a long-term solution. He would be in Buffalo for one season. A younger player with term is ideal, but I don’t know how aggressive Buffalo will be in pursuing such a player. It’s also nigh impossible to really know who is available for trade at reasonable values. History tells us time and time again that players signed in free agency are overpaid.
Buffalo has a need for a 3C. Tavares can also be a scoring winger in the Top 6 if we need him to fill that role due to an injury. He is elite at faceoffs and is a still a threat on the power play. He is more physical than Bertuzzi and Domi—all while taking far fewer penalties. He’s got the NHL experience. He has leadership experience. Contrary to what Toronto fans will tell you, there is a lot to like with Tavares. It’s the albatross of an $11m cap hit that makes him difficult to like.
Would you be willing to trade a prospect like Rosen and a 4th round pick to Toronto for Tavares at 25% and send a 3rd to Anaheim to retain an additional 25% (lowering his cap hit to $6.25m for one year)? We have the assets and this is one player that I don’t think will cost an arm and a leg to acquire because Toronto media is trying to run him and Marner out of town.
Absolutely
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I wonder what a deal for 1st overall would yield in a trade? Don’t see it often if ever
maybe a trade down has happened
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1 minute ago, Mango said:
2018-19 they were 14th.
2019-20 they were 9th.I’m so lost
OH bottom half spending?
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17 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:
Seeing as your the one who endlessly has a fit when I have anything to say negatively about Eichel or Vegas; I'm not entirely sure how I'm to blame.
Eichel was my favorite player when he was here, I went to bat for him with my family over him and was disappointed in the team results we achieved. But when he asked for a trade he became a traitor to me and thus family members felt vindicated by their misgivings being correct in some regards.
I am first and foremost a fan of the Buffalo Sabres; which means depending on how you went about your departure matters greatly to my continued interest. Reinhart got strung along yet still didn't take it out against the team or city. Thus far Mitts has done much of the same. As such my only hang up is wanting them not to score against us in matchups. Eichel on the other hand demanded his way out, and then later went after the fans which is an immediate trigger-point. Had he been merely traded away without requesting it; he'd still be one of my favorites. It all comes down to the how.
Sounds like an issue for The Family. I’ll try and stay out of it
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15 minutes ago, Mango said:
I think this is Adams speak. Kind of like when he says "We have enough resources to win" when asked about whether or not Terry can spend.
The fact of the matter is that this franchise has been bottom half of the league in 7 of the last 9 years. At this point I think that the "developing youth" is a convenient answer rather than a design. I am tempted to think it is the reverse and that the design is low spend and the result is a young team.7 of 9? Which 2 years did we finish 16th or up?
I could be wrong but I feel like our highest finish since 13 years ago was 12 years ago and 19th
19th lol
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37 minutes ago, dudacek said:
Actually, I was kinda ranting about UPL being pissed off about not getting “a fair shot,” if indeed that was the case.
Second paragraph is both a misrepresentation of my feelings and kinda dickish.
Sorry you feel that way. I’ve obviously overstayed my welcome.
I think you’ll find you are justifiably and rightly welcomed with open arms for your excellent posting. That’s rather obvious and not something that would ever change. My viewpoint need not apply: Am I butthurt because you implied I wasn’t a hardcore fan? Sure, but there’s a lot of that going around rn apparently.
There was nothing in Brawndo’s post about UPL being pissed off (unless I missed it) so yes i had no idea that’s what you were alluding to in your post
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40 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:
You've got some messed up priorities then my friend. Cheering for a player who asked to leave the team you are supposedly a fan of to succeed in order to spite fans of the team you supposedly are a fan of is screwed up in so many ways.
This is such an inane post.
“Supposedly” a fan of. Could have just stopped there, tbh. Ok, I’m not a fan. Join the dudacek club of fans rankings
“In order to spite the fans”. That’s not what it’s about, at all. It’s like you haven’t followed my position on it since the beginning. Jack was my favourite player. Yes there’s a level of vindication relative to my feelings on how bad the organization wasted the asset, but joy I get from his success relative to the disappointment in sabres fans it causes *only* applies to yokels like you who’ve been quoting me endlessly since the deal with endless conflations of what I’m actually saying. People like you and a select few others who were wishing injury and/or poor fortune on him. (I cannot remember if you personally went as far as those hoping he’d not be long for the league). Those tar and feathering his character on his way out. I always had an issue with that and always framed my position in this way.
In general pointing out that Adams lost the trade is rooted in the idea the fans deserve better, to not have that asset wasted in the name of a perpetual rebuild: it’s the opposite of delighting in misery.
I like when Jack succeeds because *I like Jack.*. Which is something you’ve never been able to wrap your head around/take at face value
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1 hour ago, dudacek said:
Was there a Sabrespacer who had UPL ahead of Levi in September?
I can remember being dismissed every time I tried to suggest UPL hadn’t finished developing yet and being told emphatically that he hadn’t even proven himself a competent AHL goalie yet.
UPL was 3/7/2 in February and March of last year. His GAA was over 4 and his S% was under .870.
He was handed the keys and the above is what he did. Levi was then handed the keys and he won.
If he had fallen behind Levi in the pecking order, he had no one to blame but himself.
And when the play level changed this fall, so did the pecking order.
Isnt that the way it’s supposed to work?
You are framing your argument to me as if I was one who was arguing UPL was ready. I was not.Are you just professionally carrying water now again because it’s the offseason? Are we going to get another rah-rah about actually needing to have expectations, chastising the fans who don’t, and then another full retraction if we miss? JK.
Anointing Levi the starter was bad. Is this an argument I have to strain to make? The comp isn’t just sabres relative: it’s league relative. Levi ended up an AHLer this year. The guy we anointed with the starting job (BEFORE CAMP. Camp battles need not apply I guess) ended up an AHLer this season in actuality. A big part of the reason we missed the playoffs was the handling of the goaltending in the first few months of the season.
That we “didn’t have anyone better” isn’t a mitigating factor in mistakenly annoying a child as the starter
the goalie output (up to and including the good results in the second half of the year) are a product of Adams *4 years* in office not just a product of the daily decisions of training camp 2023
If Adams made the right decision by the prism of the moment, which is arguable, the prism itself was poorly constructed and faulty: that’s the entire point. At least by way of the goal of making the playoffs: which we are supposed to be measuring by. If that’s not the case anymore, just let me know
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1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:
Am I not surprised he chose to play Playoffs Game 1 over Game 82, not in the slightest. I have issues with reports of his return not appearing until after Game 82. It feels contrived to think it just kind of magically happened that after the season ended he was suddenly healthy enough to play after radio silence for nearly 2 months.
Occam's razor would say something smells funny about a player who seems to leave for indefinite periods prior to the deadline only to comeback each time at Game 1's timing. It just feels fishy for it to happen three consecutive years prior to the deadline. Especially this year since he had no other injuries the entire season. I'm not saying he didn't get hurt; I'm saying that the timings of his returns are overly suspicious.
21-22
Feb. 9, 2022 - Mark Stone has an injury to his back. The expected duration is unknown.
March 21st - Deadline Day
Apr. 11, 2022 - Mark Stone's undisclosed injury status has been updated. The expected duration is game-time decision.
Apr. 12, 2022 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Missed Playoffs
22-23
Feb. 1, 2023 - Mark Stone's back injury status has been updated. The expected duration is indefinite.
March 3rd - Deadline Day
Apr. 15, 2023 - Mark Stone's back injury status has been updated. The expected duration is day to day.
Apr. 17, 2023 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Won Stanley Cup
23-24
Feb. 21, 2024 - Mark Stone has an injury to his upper body. The expected duration is week to week. (Interesting since the NHL stated indefinite)
March 8th - Deadline Day
Apr. 22, 2024 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Lost in 1st Round
LTIR was done differently by Chicago
Chicago lost Kane for 21 games in 14-15 and used the LTIR saving of 6.3mil to acquire Kimmo Timonen (2mil) and Antoine Vermette (3.75mil)
Tampa's LTIR abuse was effectively 1 year 20-21
Vegas has done it 3 years straight and seem poised to do so for the foreseeable future
But yes, I am angry with the league as a whole.
I have to admit, I get a kick out of your dogged disdain for my dislike of Vegas and/or Eichel. This isn't the Vegas boards; I have zero requirements to like Vegas in any manner. Until we make the playoffs Eichel will annoy me in some manner solely because he asked to leave. I couldn't care less if his reasoning may have been legitimate; I'm a fan of the Sabres and he asked to leave my favorite team.
No, I'd almost guarantee that Stone sat out longer than he technically had to; otherwise he has the most unusual body as he can heal exactly at the right time to play in the playoffs. If there wasn't a cap compliance issue, I'd imagine he'd of been back sooner. Effectively I can't see the doctor's signing off on his play exactly after Game 82; odds would dictate otherwise. They very likely delayed getting the clearance at very least.
Kevyn is overly dogmatic on this; I'm just meaning in general. The vast majority of teams are built primarily through the draft with a combo of trades and signings to bolster the ranks. While not steadfast in all their loyalties; most teams will hang onto fan favorite long time players beyond their expiration date for better or worse. Vegas gives no credence to friendships or loyalty and is thoroughly ruthless with roster moves. While impressive, it aligns too much with eventually causing mercenary teams with no steady roster being a norm.
And I’m sorry, if you want my heart of hearts truth: I don’t have disdain for your position I find it humorous.
Jack won. it’s over. You lost. There’s no taking that Cup away and he led the playoffs in scoring to do it
The more you post about your hatred for him the better - I fought that war for so long and the vindication is ever so sweet
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1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:
Am I not surprised he chose to play Playoffs Game 1 over Game 82, not in the slightest. I have issues with reports of his return not appearing until after Game 82. It feels contrived to think it just kind of magically happened that after the season ended he was suddenly healthy enough to play after radio silence for nearly 2 months.
Occam's razor would say something smells funny about a player who seems to leave for indefinite periods prior to the deadline only to comeback each time at Game 1's timing. It just feels fishy for it to happen three consecutive years prior to the deadline. Especially this year since he had no other injuries the entire season. I'm not saying he didn't get hurt; I'm saying that the timings of his returns are overly suspicious.
21-22
Feb. 9, 2022 - Mark Stone has an injury to his back. The expected duration is unknown.
March 21st - Deadline Day
Apr. 11, 2022 - Mark Stone's undisclosed injury status has been updated. The expected duration is game-time decision.
Apr. 12, 2022 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Missed Playoffs
22-23
Feb. 1, 2023 - Mark Stone's back injury status has been updated. The expected duration is indefinite.
March 3rd - Deadline Day
Apr. 15, 2023 - Mark Stone's back injury status has been updated. The expected duration is day to day.
Apr. 17, 2023 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Won Stanley Cup
23-24
Feb. 21, 2024 - Mark Stone has an injury to his upper body. The expected duration is week to week. (Interesting since the NHL stated indefinite)
March 8th - Deadline Day
Apr. 22, 2024 - Mark Stone is cleared to play.
Lost in 1st Round
LTIR was done differently by Chicago
Chicago lost Kane for 21 games in 14-15 and used the LTIR saving of 6.3mil to acquire Kimmo Timonen (2mil) and Antoine Vermette (3.75mil)
Tampa's LTIR abuse was effectively 1 year 20-21
Vegas has done it 3 years straight and seem poised to do so for the foreseeable future
But yes, I am angry with the league as a whole.
I have to admit, I get a kick out of your dogged disdain for my dislike of Vegas and/or Eichel. This isn't the Vegas boards; I have zero requirements to like Vegas in any manner. Until we make the playoffs Eichel will annoy me in some manner solely because he asked to leave. I couldn't care less if his reasoning may have been legitimate; I'm a fan of the Sabres and he asked to leave my favorite team.
No, I'd almost guarantee that Stone sat out longer than he technically had to; otherwise he has the most unusual body as he can heal exactly at the right time to play in the playoffs. If there wasn't a cap compliance issue, I'd imagine he'd of been back sooner. Effectively I can't see the doctor's signing off on his play exactly after Game 82; odds would dictate otherwise. They very likely delayed getting the clearance at very least.
Kevyn is overly dogmatic on this; I'm just meaning in general. The vast majority of teams are built primarily through the draft with a combo of trades and signings to bolster the ranks. While not steadfast in all their loyalties; most teams will hang onto fan favorite long time players beyond their expiration date for better or worse. Vegas gives no credence to friendships or loyalty and is thoroughly ruthless with roster moves. While impressive, it aligns too much with eventually causing mercenary teams with no steady roster being a norm.
I’m not really sure what to say: everything my understanding of hockey over the course of my life has told me is that these guys toughing it out through a laundry list of injuries during the playoffs isn’t just normal it’s so expected guys like Matthews get lambasted when they sit out. There’s nothing magical about Mark Stone “miraculously” being ready: he was ready only because pain tolerance goes up by choice in the playoffs.
He contributed because he’s mark freaking stone but if you watched the games he was NOT good. Slow. Laboured. He gave an interview today where he said they lost because they needed a better regular season/first round matchup was tough. They aren’t trying to avoid playing their guys in the regular season they are simply using a questionable rule to their advantage
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What about if the Amerks win the Calder cup this season? Does that shift the narrative of Adams’ performance in 23-24?
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17 hours ago, Brawndo said:
Marek has gone into detail about this. The prevailing thought in some circles around the league is that UPL has had to do everything he can to prove that he belongs in the NHL, while Levi has to prove that he doesn’t belong.
There was disagreement earlier in season about where Levi belonged this season. Granato wanted to ride him in the NHL while others in the FO felt Rochester was the best path forward. Levi was given the starting job before TC began this year.
Also last season once Levi was signed, UPL wasn’t even dressed as the backup for the last games of the season.
This is infuriating practice from the organization if true
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4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:
You pee, Elle.
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1 minute ago, SwampD said:
Even if they weren't. I just want the Sabres to not suck. Everything else is just sour grape BS.
It’s a powerful potion because there’s, unfortunately, a lot of logic in it on its face: if you are merely rooting against a team to NOT win a title, it’s more less a Monty Hall switcharoo where your long odds are flipped: very likely you “get what you want” every year
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Around the NHL 2023-24 Season
in The Aud Club
Posted · Edited by Thorny
I feel like the reaction to his quote is somewhat blown out of proportion. Isn’t the reaction somewhat due to that thing everyone seems to hate where, the quiet part gets said out loud? He’s getting lambasted for essentially telling the truth? He’s not a complete dunce, he’s not using “god” in the sense of benevolent lords, but more so using that word, in a pinch, in more of the greek god sense. A little bit more dime a dozen but still nonetheless endlessly talked about as the centre of a mythology. Players in Toronto ARE the centre of attention
the gotcha on using the term gods is IMHO sort of feeble
In that at least to me his meaning was rather obvious
You are thinking of Bilbo’s kid nephew