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Thorny

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  2. 2024 NHL Playoffs - ROUND TWO

    in The Aud Club

    Posted

    2 hours ago, OverPowerYou said:

    Makes you wonder how many former Sabres would’ve stayed if Ruff was our coach? Could he have gotten the best out of Eichel, Oreilly, Kane, Reinhardt? 

    Probably. But we never got to see all those players together while they were in their prime so it’s an interesting thought experiment 

  3. The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

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    Posted · Edited by Thorny

    1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

    I don't agree. At this point I think you tweak your BPA list a little - A LITTLE - for need. Especially if free agents don't want to come here (the old debate) and you run into too many NTC players you can't trade for. So for example if the BPA is a small speedy winger from Sweden and 3 or 4 slots down is a big prairie workhorse who checks well and likes to scrap a little you say no thank you to the Swede. 

    To the depth comment, yes. 

    Lol reading comprehension again. I’m not using BPA in a drafting context, here. You’ve been attempting to have an argument with me for a few hours that I’m legitimately not having haha. It’s my fault as well, I shouldn’t have even used the term “ROSTER bpa” because it invited confusion: my point was it should be the best players we can ice (up to and including transactions we might make), rather than actively looking to find spots for rookies. They should absolutely be in the mix, but as I stated (I hoped it would make sense): the youth should have to force their way on. Yes, “best” still necessarily accounts for mix and a wanting to have a well balanced team 

    Proper nhl depth results in rookies needing to bypass appropriate competition and also provides injury insurance 

    • Agree 1

  4. The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

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    Posted

    2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

    What I took from it was you saw young kids as depth and I'm saying that guys who aren't ready aren't depth. You are better off with journeymen and marginal vets. 

    The ROSTER should be BPA. if a kid is good enough he can force his way on outright. 

    I wasn’t saying  “kids as depth” i was saying “don’t be afraid to assemble nhl depth” as it helps withstand injuries

  5. 2024 NHL DRAFT Talk

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    Posted

    If there’s a team that would prove BPA the rule it’s buffalo by taking an offensively focused D-man when we already have two #1 overalls on the roster and a #3 overall on the roster in the same mold.

    I wouldn’t do it but it would be gutsy 

  7. The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

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    Posted

    Just now, PerreaultForever said:

    yes it does.

    (now you go "no it doesn't" and then we repeat)

    I don’t understand but whatever. 

    cutting to the chase -  my point was that I agree with your entire paragraph 

    4 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

    If we can get guys to waive NMCs we’re going to be in business.  

    I’m 100 percent sure this has been a massive problem for Adams probably since last year’s trade deadline.  I refuse to believe they just have thought oh yea, just keep rolling with our young guys.  And resign Okposo and Zemgus bc no one wants them - those options were better than forcing a trade we probably were looking at overpaying and for a guy who didn’t want to come here anyway.    
     

    The lack of significant moves not involving Jack or Samson - both trades we did not get the better player - this has to get fixed.  Trades for guys that have yet to have an NMC kick in doesn’t mean that’s the player we need.  This is a serious issue and I don’t know how you fix it.  
     

     

    My suggestion is this - go after Crosby.  Instant, instant credibility brought back here.  I don’t even think it would cost that much.  11th, maybe 3 prospects.  Why wouldn’t Crosby do this?  His run there is over.   

    That's how you get guys to come here.  
     

    Probably a 2 percent chance of this but it’s time to think big.   

    I would get the jersey 100%

  9. 2024 NHL DRAFT Talk

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    Posted

    16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

    I do think there’s truth in this, it least in terms of production.

    We’ve seen it on our team already, with people underrating Power compared to players like Seider because Seider has significantly more PP opportunities and therefore more points.

    Ive seen Avs fans who say that Byram’s production was hurt because he never got to play with Makar and McKinnon at all, never mind on the PP. Instead it was all Ross Colton and Jack Johnson.

    But the flip side of that is that if Byram was a better player, he wouldn’t have been taking a seat for Sam Girard, and that he didn’t have to play against the other team’s best either. So there’s a chicken and an egg thing there.

    Thing is, I don’t think Byram has to be a 60-point PP QB to be effective, he just has to be better than his opponent when he’s out there. Byram (and Power) don’t have to be the limited one-way guys some people on here seem to typecast them as. They have the tools to develop into complete defencemen the way Dahlin has. The way Pietrangelo, Theodore and Hanifin are for Vegas, To get there, they just need to get their reps.

    I checked even strength points for defencemen: Power had 26, Theodore 27 Pietrangelo 23, Seider 24.

    Ahead of them all, in 34th in the NHL with 28 was Bo Byram.

    I agree it’s still potentially a great asset to have. If Adams is right on Byram it’ll be a big boon for us not a small one. But originally in speaking asset management, I think Colorado did run the risk of underselling on one. Not in the moment in making the deal, but in it getting to the point where a deal was necessary and beneficial, that somewhat detrimental roster imbalance they had to address.

    It might not be a big thing but it might be a little thing in terms of maximizing value. And Byram trades are how common exactly?

    My main thought is there definitely should at least be caution before implementing a “draft the better player to the 4th decimal point and sort the rest out through trades” line of thought 

  14. The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

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    Posted

    17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

    No I disagree. It's about roster construction and how you build your team. Show me one single playoff team right now whose forwards are almost all skilled offensive guys and their D is almost all fast offensively minded puck movers. There isn't one. You can't build a team this way, you just can't. 

    What I said doesn’t argue against your latest post 

  16. Auston Mathews anyone?

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    Posted

    12 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

    Eichel (not as good but cheaper) got us 2 former firsts (Tuch - fine/krebs - sucks) and a first that I think turned into Rosen.

    so I’d guess something like Power, #11 overall and someone like Savoie?

    Not as good… in the regular season 

    But to your point, Jack’s particular playoff proficiency wasn’t revealed until after the trade 

  17. 2024 NHL DRAFT Talk

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    Posted · Edited by Thorny

    1 hour ago, dudacek said:

    I don’t remember the Byram comment you reference, but it may have been a reference to the fact that you don’t usually find the first defenceman taken in any draft available in a trade less than 5 years after he was picked. Or a defenceman picked in the top 10 even.

    But to your point, I don’t think you typically are forced to sell at a discount if you’ve got a logjam of a particular player type. The value is going to be determined partly by demand and mostly by how well your pick develops.

     

    Ya you could have been referring to availability in general, but I recall there being something specific about cost. My recollection is that my inference at the time was your comment was because of Byram’s performance this year. I do think some of that performance and output can come down to usage and over abundance of a type of player can affect that.

    I’ll see if I can find the post 

    On 4/27/2024 at 10:53 PM, dudacek said:

    You get a guy who you known can play 14 minutes of NHL + hockey a night and you tell Krebs there’s your target; be better than him and those minutes are yours.

    If I squint hard I can see someone who only watched Byram play in Buffalo say that.

    Im reminded of last year and what everyone was saying about Greenway.

    Im not going to say we bought low because we paid a pretty big price. But I will say you weren’t getting him at that price any time before this year.

    He’s shown he can be better and I expect he will be.

    Think it was this one 

  20. The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

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    Posted · Edited by Thorny

    27 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

    It’s a run on, for sure. But most of what you need is there.

    The picture is, to me, suggestive of a (metaphysical?) problem that I think will plague this team. 

    The fact that other NHL players take a similar photo is irrelevant, to me. That is, perhaps, unless they are on a team with a similar problem.

    It’s generally interesting to me how often you see “but all the other teams do so and so” used as reasoning for expected or desired conduct when the Sabres have so thoroughly proven themselves the outlier to which the usual does not apply, over a large sample size.

    This statement itself is a generalization but basically I’m just saying I don’t think the Sabres have the luxury of yielding to anything just because “that’s the way it is”.

    Up to and including things like the unusualness of dealing a prized prospect in the name of winning now, etc etc etc. Just to use an example of another area this logic theoretically applies 

    • Thanks (+1) 1

  21. UPL's next contract

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    Posted

    5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

    This is an overpay but, given that Adams has no other goalie plan, it may be necessary. 

     

    The one year deal like Swayman had would be a better and safer option. UPL delivers a good season under Ruff's system and he can then earn a long term deal. 

    4 x 5 seems fine to me I dunno 

  25. 2024 NHL DRAFT Talk

    in The Aud Club

    Posted · Edited by Thorny

    4 hours ago, dudacek said:

    I think this is just a case of degrees.

    In practical terms, no matter which one I’d pick first in a vacuum, I’d take prime Mike Peca over prime Rene Robert at this time for this particular Buffalo Sabres team. They’re a similar level of player, so the fit matters more.

    However, I’m not taking prime Richard Smehlik over prime Rene Robert, no matter how many top 6 wingers I have with the defensive D cupboard entirely empty.

    The Peca scenario is likely true for the 2 players you are weighing at 11, so the discussion is mostly moot.

    Where it is not moot is where a guy you rank significantly higher somehow slips to your spot. That’s where I take the Benson over the Oliver Bonk every time.

    Especially because the draft pick isn’t for now, he’s for 5 years from now.

    2 years after you overstocked on centres you might discover Mitts traded, Krebs sucking and Cozens playing better on the wing.

    I agree. I’d be skeptical of the strong degree of evaluation certainty that would necessarily follow, say, taking Robert over Peca: ie like you allude to guys at 11 are going to be ballpark in that sense so it would require an extreme case (benson I guess) to trust defaulting to a bPA pick there when positional discrepancy was glaring  

    - - - 

    reminds me of your comments on Byram “not normally being available” for what we paid. Cause what, Avs had a surplus?

    If we go ahead and take a redundant talent and we end up trading, doesn’t it likely end up a similar “normally we wouldn’t even MOVE the asset for this!” Situation 

    I don’t like that 

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