Thorny

Granato, who everyone is singing the praises of, frequently *lauded* Reinhart’s efforts and leadership ability. We need to stop carrying weight for bad GMs who built bad teams. It’s ok, they can’t hurt you anymore. Adams is here. Shhhhhhh. These guys getting more favourable roles and matchups is a totally different point to the “these guys didn’t play hard” bit, tho

He did

The league needs a finkle vs einhorn final

“By the end” it’s when you use this verbiage i agree. I think by the end it was clearly unsalvageable, and that Adams made the necessary and correct decision. could it have worked out, had the asset not been squandered and drowned in ineptitude from Tim Murray’s *DISAPPOINTED REACTION* forward? I mean, of course. It got to a POINT where he had to go, but it took a long time to get there. Of course he “grows up” here, we saw it in 2019/20. In other words, If Adams was the GM in 2015, the whole situation, imo, never goes off the rails. Or, if Eichel doesn’t go to a situation that literally anointed him as saviour through both the scorched earth tank process and mechanisms afterword. If he’d have been expected to be a very good player among other very good players, and even the best among that crew, that’s fine. To suggest Eichel simply can’t be present on a team that improves, that he’s a hinderance to improvement, itself, on its face is just the stage of Cope that comes after “can’t win with this cancer.” ”ok, you can win, he can be great, but he can’t be there for the process.” Of course he can. If it’s a good process. The *buffalo sabres* under historically inept management doesn’t even come close to representing a definitive college try

Ftfy - - - Just because we didn’t manage to build a successful team when Jack was here absolutely doesn’t mean/prove jack can’t be present during the process (which seems to be the suggestion) while a successful, balanced roster, of the type currently in Vegas, is built up and constructed. That he would specifically need to be added “at the end” doesn’t jive logically - not when there’s a multitude of other variables pointing to how poorly management operated while he was here, during that “building” process. To pretend we can isolate his role in supposedly hampering the process to the extent the exact same team he’s so fluidly a part of in Vegas *couldn’t* have been built *while* he was there is an incredible leap. Why would that be the case? I mean just on it’s face, there’s no compelling reason to think a player who, by all accounts, plays a crucial leadership role over there couldn’t have done so if he was there a bit earlier. Provided the same support, of course. The same team being built. I don’t think the order is key here, at all. The only “evidence” that suggests otherwise is that he couldn’t CARRY a *bad* team, poorly constructed, at 18, in Buffalo. That proves literally nothing. On the other hand, he has proven he is capable of being the best player on a fantastic team, all the while filling a leadership role: he’s that right now. Occam’s razor here is clearly that he’s capable of being a great player on a great team, while fulfilling a leadership role. That’s already been proven, now. That IS being “built around”. If the standard for being “built around” is literally the ability, while on your ELC for the majority of it, no less, to will a putrid team to the playoffs with little support to be found: try the NBA, as it’s a standard no NHL player can live up to. He needed the proper support. Yes. But: *that’s every player.*

Hell of a pass from Eichel hell of a pass

Lol filthy goal from Barkov

Rod da bod My Dad raised me to hate the Habs so HOW BOUT NO (dr evil voice)

Why do people always name drop Hasek in this sense? He’s the greatest goalie *of all time.* Yes, he’d look good everywhere

People take the “block” thing way too far. Not in the sprit of the statement. What it means is you don’t want to block out a prospect with a work-a-day player who represents minimal improvement at the expense of LT gain. it does mean, “I don’t want this all star because it’ll stop me from developing this second liner” etc Hellebuyck is a top 3 goalie in the world. ”a Ferrari is a Ferrari, but this mystery box could be anything! It could even be a Ferrari!”

Canadian drought continues so with that established goodness, don’t really care going forward who wins

“It just seemed that we were heading towards another…I don’t want to say rebuild but, we weren’t really in a position that we were going to try and win. I went to the team and said I wasn’t really happy with the idea of that. If that’s the route they wanted to take, maybe it would be better to move me, to use me as a jumpstart.” Eichel gave Adams “a lot of credit” for signing Taylor Hall and making moves intended to improve the team. But, 2020-21 went terribly for the team and Eichel, a “disaster in terms of a personal season for myself.” https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/jack-eichel-discusses-trade-request-desire-disc-replacement-surgery/sn-amp/

Where’s @Brawndo please correct me on timeline here if I’m mistaken. I’ll happily admit I’m wrong if I am

So just a refusal to accept you are mistaken on timeline. Alright man. Who cares about the truth when clinging to being “right” matters more It’s a refusal to accept facts on your part. Your second sentence is plain old inaccurate. ”Once Jack made it clear that he didn't want to be part of the rebuild the GM's decision to move him was not difficult to make.“ We aren’t “talking past each other”, which you always seem to default to, you are simply, in this case, mistaken. Once Jack made it clear he didn’t want to be in a rebuild, the GM *decided to change his plan for a year*. All the “go for it with Taylor Hall” stuff was *after* Jack told KA he “didn’t want to be here for a rebuild.” Adams proceeded to attempt to accommodate JE. It’s all peachy if you believe YOU somehow knew it was over at that time: but it wasn’t for KA, and that’s not when he told JE to stay home. That was a *year later*

You are messing up the timeline. Jack wasn’t told to “stay home” when he first said he didn’t want a rebuild. That bit from KA came a year later once the injury dispute began It was a significantly more drawn out, and complicated process than your, again, black and white take that, again, lacks nuance. Things are rarely wrapped up neatly in a clean little bow like you tend to state, like just across the board. ”clear and unalterable” reads like an intentional parody when KA *literally* altered his initial plan for his first year as GM. Jack has *literally* given Adams credit for “taking a shot at it” after Eichel’s “I don’t want to be here if we are going to rebuild” comments were made. Adams and the organization attempted to accommodate Jack, at first. It wasn’t cut and dry, I’m sorry.

True. And Vegas was at a disadvantage in goal on paper last two series, as well

Dallas had the second best goal differential in the NHL after Boston this year, so I’m thinking you are probably right. Tough to pick against Vegas now though they are rolling

I think it was a little more difficult than you are implying. Don’t forget that when Eichel first said he wasn’t on board for a rebuild, they went in a different, Taylor Hall -ish direction. We can speculate who in management pushed which direction, but clearly the organization as a whole didn’t simply easily move on

Happy for Karmanos I guess but damn is that ever “too soon” for the Sabres

Need to wait and see our guys on the Reinhart side with some NHL games under their belts but it’s looking like this very well could be the case, yup

If Adams knew Jack was good with doing a rebuild, I think that’s possible. Adams wanted a rebuild. Jack didn’t. Eichel told KA this, KA made the choice to betray his initial desires and “go for it” in that disastrous, shortened year, and right or wrong, or somewhere in the middle, KA took those results as proof he was correct the first time. I think BOTH parties framed it around the injury at that point, refusing to budge on it, but the conflict was powered in truth by their again opposite stances on course forward, ON ICE. That’s my view. I don’t know that Adams was correct that we needed that full reset, but that’s a secondary point to the fact that: he’s made his choice, work. As far as we’ve seen so far. His return for Eichel was successful and the track he’s put the team on seems to be paying dividends so far. He was right. Eichel was right, too. 30s in hockey is old. He’s in his mid/late 20s. Jack wanted to be playing in the playoffs, NOW, regardless of how promising the future might be had he signed up for a rebuild. How can he be declared wrong? He’s a leading Conn Smythe candidate heading to the final 4. He was right: this IS where Jack Eichel should be right now. In your heart of hearts everyone knows this is true. This is what a late 20s player of his magnitude should be doing, what Jack should be playing for, right now. I wish the same for Dahlin when he’s his age. Win win

What a salty tone seeking to downplay his achievements lol all of the vets on the team credit him for being central in the room, as does Cassidy. - - - the sabres and Eichel had a falling out. There doesn’t need to be a bad guy. It’s all I’ve said all along. We can argue back and forth on it still, but I think we can put the “what kind of player is Eichel” to bed after this dominant playoff run so far, 200 ft. THE most important stage. Led team in points in regular season, leads in playoffs. Outplayed McDavid. When the bar from some was “cancer you can’t win with”, I think it’s finished.

Still drawing a blank on 19/20, eh? he was changing then. He had changed then. The easiest thing is to just admit that season happened. He was still young, that’s usually when the development DOES happen waaay improved defensively. Even traditional stats like plus minus back that up. And that was on a not good defensive team. His post game interviews were *significantly* improved that year, which I’ve tried to mention 10s of times. He wasn’t all the way there, but it’s not like he became a new player this year. What we saw was expected upscale relative to supporting cast improvement, coaching included. It’s not like he didn’t further mature this year, but that’s still expected given traditional development curves and the experience of coming of age as an NHLer