Darryl Shannon's +/-

If Lucic were to step out of line as badly as he has in the past (the attempted fight with Lydman or running Miller), he certainly would have to answer to 32. The only thing stopping it is an instigator, which I think the Sabres would be more than happy to take to send a message if it needed to be sent. I don't believe it's a coincidence that he's toned down his act against us since 32 signed with us. Don't take this as a "We need John Scott" post. The league and the team will be better without people like him around. But to say that he has zero impact on the relations between these two teams isn't fair either. It's definitely more tame, but to achieve that we need to dress a guy who drags down our overall skill level.

I think that's where the disconnect is. As long as Scott is on the team and/or dressed, Lucic and others of his ilk would not consider doing something that stupid or reckless. Lucic would not have run Miller as he would have known that a sound beating was coming his way. And the contention that a top 6 forward needs to take on Lucic is not practical. There may be 3-4 top 6 types in the league who could take him on. But history has shown that he shrinks from the true heavyweight division. To further this though....if Shanahan would have dealt with the situation properly, there would be no need to load up on muscle to counter stupidity. A great game is being bogged down by the idiots in charge.

It's a small sample size, but ever since Scott has been wearing the blue and gold Lucic seems to be on better behavior. No more (bravely) trying to fight the Toni Lydman's of the world. And the end of game nonsense seems to have lessened as well. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that Scott doesn't belong in the NHL. My gripe is that as long as the league doesn't protect the safety of others from loose cannons like Lucic, there will be a need for the John Scott's of the world. Take a look at Lucic going after Landeskog. That isn't hockey, that isn't tough play. And it's not anything I want to see. John Scott keeps things like that from happening to our players. And we need that as long as Shanny isn't willing to drop the hammer on certain players and/or teams.

I think this is oversimplifying the issue....I think people bring up names like Kaleta and Scott to challenge the sham that is the office run by Shanahan. Using other lightning rods (who can actually play the game), do you think Cooke or Torres would have received nothing for the same exact play? I'm not embarrassed for Scott or any of his actions, I'm embarrassed that the league makes it necessary to even contemplate having players like him around anymore. In 05/06, we were so, so close to eradicating this type from the league, yet clutching, grabbing and physical play have been allowed to take over again, reducing scoring. Remember right after the lockout when crosschecking in front of the net was an automatic whistle, resulting in dmen fronting forwards? That's ancient history. Remember every time Scott is mocked as a joke that Lucic was laughing in his post game presser after running Miller.

Only gripes I've got: 00: Marty Biron 4: Boughner 15: Dixon Ward 16: Chris Taylor, obviously 22: Mair

Agreed.....the bulk of our bottom 6 are AHL types. Why not plug in the leading AHL scorer to see if he gives you more. My expectations are low, but entertainment level may go up for us as his hands are elite.

Just look at Gaustad's stats, and it's impressive that he's eeked out a 10 year NHL career with his skillset. I've never understood his value to the game though, especially with the talk that faceoff wins really don't matter.

I'm sure people talk about those things all the time, this seemed worse if only for the reason that he decided to do it while the ref was pushing him away from the scrum. So not only classless and stupid, but also gutless. Unless Kassian wakes up in the very near future, the 3 year expiration date can be a very real possibility. Not many guys wake up at 25 or 26 and all of the sudden become great players. LeClair was one....but I'm racking my brain trying to think of others. And his was due to the change in scenery, lax enforcement of the rules and playing with Lindros. Looking at his numbers so far, he's reminding me of a Brad May type of offensive presence who can't fight half as well.

Shades of Andrew Peters swinging the golf club at the Leafs. Kassian just seems like a tweener who will never make it.....not enough offensive skill to be a true power forward, and a glorified middleweight in the fight game.

To pile on to this....let's pretend Orpik is hurt really, really badly. As this happened well after the whistle, I'm curious if this would be considered assault as it didn't happen during play.

Until last night, I would have said the same thing about Thornton. There are classless idiots wearing the spoked B. Past actions showed he wasn't one of them.

I missed the Chara attempt the first time around. The league allowing him to be suspension free (I think), and thus able to call him a clean player with no priors is an absolute joke. Very interested to see how Shanahan deals with Thornton though. Yes, he's more talented than John Scott. That said, he's still a plug who wouldn't have a roster spot if fighting was eradicated from the game. He's easy prey to make a statement that the NHL is serious about cleaning things up. In reality, I see a comical 5-10 game suspension for a play that occurred after a whistle and necessitated Thornton skating the length of the ice to engage Orpik. And I see Neal getting 1-2 for outright stupidity. That said....I hope he uses the Lucic defense. "I had my head down and I was skating after the puck, I didn't see him".

Solid points....although the league seems to like this type of thing. Their broadcast partner drums up interest for games by calling them "rivalries" and showing stuff just like this. How many times did we see Lucic run Miller prior to our nationally televised game? As we watch clutching and grabbing go up, offense going down (even more so here), it seems like the league itself has zero concept on what it should be marketing and enforcing.

I'm thinking 10+.....Scott got his for a hit that was made during play. This was after the whistle, a slewfoot and punches that resulted in a stretcher being hauled out. In terms of plays that could easily be avoided, scrums after the whistle are easy prey. To up the ante, does anyone know if he came off the bench to do this?

Not for nothing, but two of our best runs at the cup were built off of solid AHL squads. Dixon Ward and company won the Calder I believe just prior to the 99 run, and Vanek/Miller/Pommers had a nice year during the lockout. I'd love it if we had enough depth to season some of these guys w/ an AHL powerhouse before moving up to the show. The thing we're missing is the veteran presence to help with our current path. We really need guys at the end of their career who can set the example but also realize how lucky they are to be playing in the NHL rather than overseas. Lose all you want, but keep a culture in place that makes effort a key component.

Paying some of the salary to sweeten the pot is the only way left to game the system and get more draft picks. That money may have gotten us the extra 2nd next year. Similar to taking on Kotalik in the Regehr trade. I know Pegula receives his fair share of criticism, I think he's doing everything he can financially to help the team. That's assuming we're paying some of Vanek's salary....

On the face of it, it appears we got a more durable player who has similar production in the past 4 years along w/ a 1st and 2nd. For what appears to be a rental for the Isles. There has to be money behind the scenes of this trade....maybe we're eating 2-3M of Vanek's salary this year? He's making 6.4M in real money this year.

I wonder if Moulson was thrown in as a way to make the salary portion of the transaction work?

Consider it 2 firsts and a second (after we deal Moulson at the deadline). Not a bad haul for a UFA who supposedly is destined for Minn. A better haul than was gotten for Rick Nash, right? I'm also betting Terry is paying a large amount of Vanek's salary to maximize the benefit.

I'm holding out to vote on him because I feel it's way too early. I was impressed with the salvage work he did with this roster last year, yet bored to tears with the style of play that resulted. Curious to see how he deals with all the youth in the lineup, and the organizational plan for it. Last year I feel he played a lineup that gave him the best chance to win (playing Porter and Flynn a ton). Will he have Grigs on a short leash out of fear for his own job, or does he have assurances from up on high that we can deal with growing pains? On an unrelated note, I liked Lindy for his interactions in the media and thought Ron held up the same way after the dust up in Toronto.