HopefulFuture

Neither one of these responses addresses any of the real concerns I brought up, it's an end around, a lawyers dodge, if you will. Your both arguing for something that I'm not even against, which is legal entry in to the country, you fail to address the illegal status completely. GCOE, you failed to answer my question on letting all 5 + billion in, because, quite frankly, your view opens the door for that pandora's box on a legal basis due to the very race issue I brought up. Are you prepared to omit the Asians, millions of them, not just 30, try hundreds of millions, that will almost surely see this a legal venue to do so. Are you fully prepared to take on the suffering of so many that will occur in their efforts that will be 1000 times fold to get over here? Is that something your prepared to sacrifice? It's not fantasy land, it would be a reality to some extent. Then, to Numark, can you denote who is legitimate and who is not when it comes to the most sovereign of rights I, as a citizen have? Are you prepared to vouch for those that here in the name of loyalty to a better life, and what of those that kill citizens, mame them, rob them, rape them, kidnap their children and do unspeakable things to them, are you prepared to answer for those actions? There is real concern here, not some anti immigration stance. We have a way of doing this already, and it works just fine. There is no need to change the current parameters, unless, of course, it benefits a group, hence, not only do I submit the Democrats may be doing this, as you suggest via your conspiracy theory statement, I submit they are doing it, straight out, for electoral gains. This is just common sense. I find it hard to believe you can't see what is right in front of you. And last, there is a law in place that currently addresses these very issues. If you have an issue with the law, take it up at the polls, as American Citizens you have that right, but don't try and flood the process with a group of individuals that would enhance your current stance on said issue because you can't accumulate enough support to do so in a current, law abiding way. That is called corruption, and that is what you support when you support amnesty. It's that simple.

Isn't that what you are all doing in the immigration conversation, is splitting hairs? For example, oh, it's ok though if the Democrats do it, because, you know, I support legalizing them................ Now, where in the hell does the actual law, the law that still remains in full force and effect, on immigration come in to play with a statement like that? Seriously man, just, ###### the law, we can ignore it because hey, we have a Democrat in the White House after all.............. Is that the kind of ###### that I want to teach my children, or the future generations of this nation, that laws can be obeyed and disobeyed by individuals or groups in power when it suits their needs? Is that what America is all about? Forgive me, I didn't get the pamphlet on that one as a kid growing up, I got the one that spoke on fairness, right and wrong, law of the land and justice.

I'll go you one further Swamp, just because my salary was paid directly from the client because I was on the job as an early strategic planning staff member, how can I say I didn't take government money when I included the subsidies in the pro forma building? Easy, you didn't ask me if I was on a project that I helped facilitate government funding for, the comment made was one that implied my salary was paid for by government funds, or a portion thereof, it wasn't. Edit: I should have just waited for you to go off on this one, but, in the interest of keeping things reasonable and in the realm of reality, I'll address the situation as this: Your attempts, as a group, to tie together the changing of energy generation in America to the current immigration situation is comical at best to be quite honest. The goal on the energy side is to ultimately help, really help, the nation as a whole over all. The situation on the immigration side is only to help one political parties aspirations. If you don't see it this way, might I suggest you live it and then at least take the time to rethink the issues.

It's absolutely an attempt to rig the vote, and on a national scale. Do you honestly believe the Democrats set forth this policy because they became so concerned about the situation south of our border? The current Democratic Administration itself, has currently tied the hands of border agents along that southern border, I don't care what the media is telling the people, personal conversations with individuals I know right there say different, and fear for their jobs if they speak up. As for the Cuban scenario, just copy and paste the Republicans name in there where I've typed for Democrats, and I agree, both parties do it. There is a difference in the Cuban situation however, that you fail to bring forth, and I wonder why, could it be that it is actually a humanity issue. And here is what I mean, if an illegal immigrant is returned to their country of origin in Central America, their governments don't normally prosecute them is political dissidents, and hence, subject them to cruelties just because those individuals were attempting to leave that environment to begin with. Like I said, there is a huge difference there and I do wonder why, when you make such statements on situations like the Cubans, you fail to bring that part of the equation in to play and apply it to both immigration groups accordingly to see where the differences lay. I wrote the pro forma for the wind farm I worked on, the government didn't pay a dime of my salary. Nice try though. Same with the solar projects.

I have yet to be on one government funded project. And bat ###### crazy is exactly what I've witnessed from both political parties, so don't feel alone in my views given the circumstances I've seen played out on the political stage in this nation. But that is neither here nor there. New York is losing an innovative, hard working, independent minded son by the policies the current majority political party is employing. And I'm not the only one. I won't deviate from the conversation on the immigration situation, it still is what it is, any defense there of is futile because quite frankly, you only try to convince yourself, by continued belief in falsehoods put forth by the Democratic party in this case. It's firmly all about the voting electorate, as such, every legal citizen, not just myself, but all of us, should have great concerns about opening this pandora's box. Where does it stop? Who is actually championing the rights of legal citizens? When is enough enough on buying the crap hook, line and sinker and opening ones eyes to see reality for what it is?

Some times. Some times I work on wind turbines, some times I work on solar farms, some times it's a toilet paper making machine. The jobs vary, power plants, oil and gas are incorporated in to the over all resume I have, power plants being the the staple, but other industrial jobs are in there as well. It was a poor attempt on Swamps part to use it as an analogy, since, oil and gas are in fact, legal currently. Combine that with the fact that I ran my own renewable energy company for 4 years and actually brought a 0 emissions facility, with funding included, both larger equity position as well as local skin in the game to Niagara Falls and it was the Democrats who actually demanded primer payments to PAC and local campaigns here in New York. It killed the project. So, I'm a reality guy, and I see right through the Democrats for what they are. Hey, it isn't my fault Swamp decided to throw that cog in to the machine, especially to an individual such as myself who has ate, slept and ###### trying to get renewable energy to the masses. It's the very party he supports that killed an opportunity.

Who am I to say? I am a citizen, I have every right to voice my concern over this illicit strategy by one of the 2 monopolizing, corrupt political parties in the nation to add more votes to their war chest, not by putting forth sound, common sense policies by the way, but by just bringing in more people, that enter the nation illegally, and offering them the opportunity to stay and in return receiving their support all the while existing residence, if you haven't noticed, to a larger extent, are not happy with Democratic policies, every poll states this. In the end, it is not I, as a citizen, that can't see this happening. It's pretty cut and dry. I'll state it like this, the Democrats policies suck because they don't fully think through the resulting affect they have on a larger scale to the nation, no different than the Republicans, 2 sides of the same 2 headed coin. Only, in this case, the Dem's clearly realize their policies won't last because an existing majority of the citizens that vote are rejecting them, the elections will bear this out. So what can they do about that? They won't alter their policies, once again, no different than the Republicans, only, unlike the Republicans (for whom I have a great disdain as well since they actually try to keep individuals physically from the polls), the Democrats have decided the only way to get those policies pushed through is add illegal immigrants to the voting rolls. Now jeez, as a US citizen who has offered a portion of his life to the ideals of the sovereign vote remind me again why I shouldn't voice my concern.............. If your suggesting, or even hinting, that I support fossil fuels because I'm an industrial electrician, your like the Democrats you support, Lost in Space. They aren't supporting the altering of those laws out of the kindness of their hearts, if that were the case, it would have been done permanently years ago. They are allowing a porous border in an effort to get in as many illegal entrances as possible, then are using the guise of citizenship or a path to citizenship in an effort to alter the current demographic electorate in the nation. Let's not attempt to inter lace the humanity side of the equation with the realities that are occurring. For if that be the case, then hell, why not just bring the 5 + billion that are impoverished and suffering globally in to the nation, do you support that? Because in affect, by stating you support the breaking of our current immigration law, the laws of which still stand in effect, let me say that again, the laws of which still stand in effect, that is what your implying. If your not implying that, then it's only for central American citizens? That's racist, isn't it?

That is not our core sovereign right. There are volumes difference here. If you don't pay your taxes, yet I do, it affects only those issues that will short fall on the budgetary side, but not every single issue. The right to vote, affects every single one of them. Like I said, huge difference. While there may be no love lost between individuals such as you and I, your more than welcome to come back to a state that is so far beyond the pale economically and there is no sign of the governmental spending spree slowing down in our lifetime enough to make a difference, NY has become the poster child for the social welfare state. Me, I'll earn what I have in my life based on the merits of what I accomplish on my own, without aid from a governing agency, and in return, I get the benefit of choosing a state with the same mind set. I don't know what to say to this other than this isn't some speed limit scenario. Once again, it's a core sovereign right that is being utilized in an effort to illegally sway election results in the future. By your very statement here you acknowledge to someone such as myself, that has worn the uniform and sworn an oath to not only the Constitution, but the nation as a whole that my doing so meant nothing, 0 to you.

And relating to our little illegal immigration conversation, here is a very interesting piece in the NY Post: http://nypost.com/2014/09/15/democratic-pols-seek-amnesty-rights-under-ny-state-law-for-illegal-immigrants/ Let's reward law breakers, with what you ask, the very sovereignty of our most precious of rights as a citizen, the right to vote. The core reason why I'm leaving NY State, these bat ###### crazy liberal Democrats.

Actually, and you'd be surprised JJFIVEOH, I tend to agree with you, but, there is a law that allows both the Federal and State governments to do so. http://en.wikipedia....lth_Service_Act Here is the current codified Bill: http://www.law.corne...t/42/chapter-6A Here is an article that best describes the situation, and note the assertion of the 10th Amendment in justification of States abilities: http://www.businessi...omebody-2014-10 And since it's an existing law in acceptance of Constitutional Standards as applicable by both levels of government, I will except it as such.

While I think it should be instituted for those that have Ebola, and in some twisted way, the Federal Government can most likely use several avenues to do so, yes, ultimately I believe it is a violation of Constitutional Rights to impose a quarantine on those that have not been directly diagnosed, but only show symptoms. Therefore, although I personally feel as though the threat to the general public is such that it can probably be done, I don't believe it's Constitutional.

I wonder if Zad's has a coach in the press box with him, everytime one of those 3 touches the puck the coach is telling Zads..."and that is what you don't do"..........like live, in person spectator training as opposed to video..........

It says on the main Sabrespace page that he's gone to the CSKA Mosvka

I've seen them send a great deal of money back home. As a matter of fact, they don't put in to the US economy the way many on here speak, they send almost all of what doesn't meet basic necessity's back home. Cheaper to purchase there, and they tell me that right out. But yes, they do send it across the border to their families, and many of the boys don't want to live here, once again, the ones I work with, because it's more expensive than where they are from.

I can't speak to their education level, since I don't live there myself. The ones I've worked with within my industry are more less educated enough to read and write, Spanish of course, I teach some what English I can and some speak it well enough to fit right in, it's a sliding scale. Like Mrs. Gump always said, it's like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get. As to the larger aspect of what you stated on letting them in. As I keep saying over and over again, we have a system in place whereby they can apply for citizenship over time, they are the largest immigrant work force with visa's in the nation already. It's not like securing the border would shut them out. This is why I am baffled at those on here, including yourself to some extent, as to why you wouldn't want them signing the guest book on the way in. It would not hinder them one bit and would help us in our efforts to secure our own families and our fellow citizens safety. The reality is they are coming from a part of the world that is extremely dangerous and violent in many locations. Some of those facets come with them if we aren't prudent and keep our guard up while letting them in. Hell, everyone of the Spanish boys I've worked with over the course of these last 15 years went through the process, and it wasn't like they had to wait until they were 28 to 30 years old, many of them waited 4 to 6 months, and in my industry, you must be 18 to commence working. So they lived the first 18 years in their nation of origin, they survived, another 6 months or so while the process plays out shouldn't be an issue here. Of course, that is what I've experienced in my dealings with them, and in no way am I stating others haven't waited longer. It may depend on the need for the skill, or, in some cases, the need for the employer here in the states to facilitate a cheaper labor force, which, I have experienced first hand. In short, I'm sure there are variables I haven't seen that have affects on the time. But back to what you stated on an open border type situation, similar to Canada. A majority of the Latino's from Central America are Catholic, that's Christian last time I checked, so they match a criteria that should keep some of the right wingers happy. Then there is the desire to work hard once here, a teachable work ethic to be sure, but one that many US youth's simply lack. And of course there is the loyalty question, while I've denoted a case or 2 on the questionable issue here, many Latino's serve in our military, some of them non citizens, so I'm sure this can be achieved as well. As you can tell, I don't necessarily want them to stay out, I view both sides of the equation. But in the end, we are a nation at war. On top of that war we also have a very heavy criminal element south of us that will stop at nothing, including the mass killing of innocents to protect those criminal enterprises. Those are 2 issues that cannot just be ignored without realizing what is happening here in the states as it spills over. Securing the border comes first, combined with lining up the illegal's here now and reviewing their situations one case at a time. With an estimated 30 to 40 million here, that is going to take time, every day wasted is another day that we haven't achieved that goal that puts American citizens lives at stake.

I understand how it is supposed to work GCOE, I'm merely letting you know what my nephew, who currently is a border patrol agent on the southern border, is doing as ordered by the current administration. They aren't putting detainer's on legal immigrants, even in commissions of crimes, he told me this himself. They are actually letting illegal's go from their facilities without further detainers from ICE by the way. This is happening in Arizona, where he is currently stationed.

And the vast majority of gun owners I know, actually, every single one of them, not only are responsible fire arms owners, but some of them are actually instructors in various capacities, including but not limited to hunters, target shooters as well as law enforcement officers.

I was surprised particularly by the Colorado situation. What a snafu for the Dems on that set of circumstances. North Carolina, not so much, although there were many northern liberals to move into the population centers there, enough time has passed now since that exodus has peaked to start to see a reversal of fates as original population and migrants from the north mix together. Should be interesting to see the Iowa senate race play out though, I wonder how comfortable Hillary feels now with all of these races so close. And what's really disappointing, at least to myself, is that there are still no real independent or 3rd party challengers that offer any type of common sense stand on issues. Baffling how these individuals that run for office outside of the 2 party system cannot see what is in front of their noses, the disgust of the general public with both parties, at this time. It's a failure of massive proportions in my estimation, that no 3rd party candidate has successfully taken advantage of that yet. I know, and I honestly try to answer in an earnest, cordial manner. While the responses to this tweet range from sad to humorous, I'd be shocked if Obama doesn't back track on this given Hillary and Andrew's most recent stand on stage together. Is Obama the good little soldier that will fall in line and march in step with his party? I believe he is and he will. But the larger issue, outside of politics for a moment, WTF is anyone in Washington thinking if they actually speak against stringent protocols in an effort to protect the public at large? I thought this guy was educated in one of the best educational institutions on the globe, apparently, they don't teach common sense there............... The AP article sighted by Matrix clearly states that ICE has issued an immigration detainer on this individual so that deportation proceedings can begin immediately upon his current legal problems are done with, as a matter of fact, here is the exact wording from the article: "The fingerprints were the basis for our request for an immigration detainer," she said. The detainer requests that local authorities turn him over to federal custody after his case is adjudicated so ICE can purse his deportation, Kice said. You don't get a detainer put on you unless it's validated that you are indeed illegally in the country, that much my nephew let me know.

Well, a gun is a tool that can be used to feed your family. While yes, I do not agree with humans killing humans, there is a reality in the world, and that reality is Utopia is not coming in my life time, nor yours. You simply cannot control the personalities nor actions of others that were never within the realm of your control to begin with, hence the very reason self defense mechanisms are needed to ensure the lineage of your blood lines are afforded the opportunity to be passed down from generation to generation. We are mammals after all, it is instinctive, even to this day, to ensure our off spring are given the opportunity to survive. Especially in the male gender of our species. Understand DeLuca, I know what your getting at fully. I'm not opposed to Utopian desires at all, but the reality of the world is much different than what you wish it to be. Besides, no one in their right mind likes to live a life of having to look over their shoulder every 5 minutes to feel safe, but once again, this is the world, not just the nation, but the world we live in.

Oh wait, here's one better, if the perp can't get in to the country, he doesn't obtain a gun illegally and 2 law enforcement officers are still alive. And as for his gun, do you know how he got it? Didn't think so. This is all about his illegal entry in to the US, every action after that was illegal as he was illegal. Edit: and as for your comment on guns being toys, that is an insult to myself, as a responsible fire arms owner.

And 2 law enforcement officers lose their lives due to a porous border. Not surprising Matrix, at least, not to me. Hey, let's just keep these illegal's rolling on in, who cares if a percentage of them are bad apples and destroy US citizens lives and families. After all, those votes needed by the Democrats are far more important than say, a Federal Government that does their job and secures the dam border................I would be shocked, if I weren't so prepared for things like this to happen, all in the name of humanity so some say.................where's the humanity for those fellow US citizens that just lost their lives I wonder........................

I understand Numark. I hear what you, GCOE, 11 and some many others are saying. And I also understand that you all have heard my take on it. Let me leave all who read this specific post some examples of my mind set on this, maybe then it may appear clearer to you in so far as my stance on this issue goes. You live in a township or state near the border, your a tax paying us citizen, born here or naturalized. You see a spike in your local/state taxes because births of children from illegal immigrants go up at the local hospital, or, state wide. Is that fair to you? You don't make the money to give to charity for these people, and your life has been economically impacted by them. Do you think of them first, or your family? You have a field of work your in, you go to work everyday as a citizen of the United States. A flow of cheaper labor comes in due to illegal immigrants and your pay and benefits are altered due to it, does that not effect your family? (and before anyone says this does not happen, it happened to me on the Pandora Project in TX in 2011, my pay was 22 dollars an hour as a journeyman electrician at the time, due to illegal labor, they tried to force us white, yes I said white, workers down to 18 dollars an hour and do away with the per diem all together, so it does have an impact whether or not you like to admit it) Your in a community up in Kansas, let's say Dodge City. You work as a waitress and you notice a steady flow of new labor at the slaughter houses, you notice a drop in tip money which is part and parcel of your pay, then, a few months later your phased out for a Hispanic worker more apt to be in tune with the customer base, does this not effect your family? Your health care costs go up due to the increase of unpaid bills in the local or state health care system due to illegal immigrants utilizing the system. Oh, let's say it's only 0.002 percent of the over all system, still, it effects the over all cost, is that fair to you or your family? You have real world threats unfolding globally, the border is not secure, putting any family in America at risk of unwarranted attacks, either via drug cartels or worse yet, actual terrorist organizations that are planning to use that border in an effort to harm Americans, would you want your government to secure that border in an effort to help secure your safety? Isn't that a part of the responsibility of the Federal Government in this nation? There are many more examples of the negative impact an illegal immigration situation can bring. But since you live in WNY your not feeling it's direct effects........yet. What about our fellow citizens in those impacted areas, should they not expect and receive the full support of all citizens as they deal with this over whelming issue? I say they should, what do you say?

Culture has nothing to do with it in so far as what you post here. Remember, I work with what I call "the Spanish boys" everyday I'm on the job. It means nothing to me if they are actually native Americans from south of the border, as long as they are here legally. While I sympathize with the plight of the worlds impoverished, it is not the responsibility of the United States to care for the World's poor. That can be achieved by individual charity. The sole purpose for the government of the United States of America is to serve it's citizens, not the worlds. Should that be considered a view that is not compassionate? It's been the view of all nations throughout history, so no, it shouldn't. You want to feed the children and put shoes on their feet, you can send the food and shoes or money in lieu of. While, as I said, I sympathize, it is that simple quite frankly, my family, my friends and my citizens come first, it's the ties that bind us together as a nation. Completely agree, but as I said, there are ways to curb the fraud without infringement. Voter ID cards are one way, given free of charge it should be a hassle to no one. Another would be to remove the illegal immigrants from the nation all together. Both are equally capable of finding success when it comes to voter fraud.

Exactly on the qualifiers statement. But then, how does one define a moment in law when individuals actually do come here illegally to give their children citizenship, at the cost of the current tax paying citizens? As it stands now, you are correct, I have no legal basis to demand anyone's child born here leave the nation, but then, I wasn't demanding it, I was merely stating what I'd like to see given the circumstances of the situation. If you have any questions on this phenomenon of illegals coming here to give birth so their children can benefit from the citizenship offered, I am going to Beaumont, TX in about a week or so for an 8 to 9 month job. I can get you the details while there, in depth, on this ongoing dilemma to the affects towards local governments financially, and in turn the local and state tax basis if you wish. And mind you, I'm not saying every immigrant does this, but it is another issue that adds to the over all scenario of the problem, and I'm sure even you can submit to this reality. With that being said, how are we to distinguish between those cases and cases of birth's that are non illegal in nature? And further, what is to give those being born here loyalty if the parents aren't loyal, since, we are creatures that covet what we know, or, in a child's case, what we are taught through environment, i.e. how we are raised. Look again to Arizona, where over 80% of the children in a school of Hispanic descent were born here in the states but supported flying the Mexican flag as opposed to the American flag. At some point and time, these small issues will become larger if those continued policies are continued. It's just common sense. So, in effect, they are allowed to stay, correct? Because yea, I read that in the bill as well. You know what they call that? Amnesty. Use common sense my man.

Thank you K-9, and bare in mind, I'm not against Asylum. I am against amnesty however, as I have traveled this nation extensively it's one thing my point of view includes is the inability for the governing bodies to care for our own citizens in mass at this time. Look at the debt we are racking up, look at the deficits we are running. Until we, as a people, as a nation, can get our own house in order, I am not open to any discussion on broadening our current immigration laws, which by the way, currently stand in effect and allow more than ample amounts of individuals through a legal process in to the nation, regardless of where they are from.