HopefulFuture

I've worked for ISO's, Transmission firms, Power Generating Stations and Power Pool Authorities. Your belief that it's interconnected nationally is misplaced. It isn't. I will say that yes, you are correct in your thinking that transmission upgrades (i.e. your term is the grid, but thats not the industry term) may get us to the point where it is national, but as of right now, if you were say, in Pueblo Colorado and wanted power from the Power Vista here, your not going to get it, even in an emergency situation. Edit: Oh, and one more thing, those transmission lines, they aren't operated and owned by government agencies. They are privately owned, unlike the thruway system. Also note that it costs roughly 2.3 million dollars a mile for those runs.

I think you are not considering 3 critical points about developments over the last 30 years or so: 1. The rest of the world has come much closer to the US in terms of economic competitiveness Absolutely true, but this statement should be viewed in the context of corporate America's willingness to reduce labor costs, not material costs, and of course to side-step regulations by gong abroad and so on.........profits, profits, profits no matter the expense. That should be at the forefront of the American workers thoughts all day long and twice on Sunday's when they go to the polls. 2. It's become technologically much more feasible to outsource jobs when economically rational to do so Trade Policies set forth by multiple administrations and rubber stamp approved by congress (both branches of which friends or directly themselves profitted from) are the sole reason for your comment here, not the economic rational you speak of. 3. Despite decline in real wages, the quality of life of the middle class has increased substantially due to technological improvements -- i.e. safe cars, housing, TV, phone, etc. are all much more affordable now than previously. I don't doubt technology has enhanced what is left of the middle class' quality of life. But once again, where is the data to show what technology, and especially technology jobs, shipped off shore have actually diminished the middle class in numbers. Stating that the middle class has benefitted from what you posted here is akin to telling 20 people stranded on a mountain that there is enough food for 12 people for 30 days, but it's day 45 there ago, the 8 others, well.........there is enough food for all now for 60 days for all. That dog don't hunt.

screw the rich? :thumbsup:

And the bolded statement lay open for all to see exactly why the American population need to save, and not spend as much. The economic model currently being utilized (The Keynesian model) is unsustainable longterm and is actually the single largest threat to the nation as a whole. Growth is not unlimited, unlike what many pundits would like you to believe (and those pundits are the ones who benefit from feeding the populus that line of crap). Savings, with light to moderate spending is the way to go. And the reasoning is all out in th open for even the simpilist of thinkers to see. In point of fact, the job losses in manufacturing specifically, were all based on opening markets in developing nations. What has happened is crystal clear, protectionism from those major players in global trade on the job front combined with shipping cheap goods back to a credit consumer hungry population such as ours has led to a massive debt and deficit situation, a lack of any type of job growth with sustainability and an overall decrease in global influence that has directly affected not only the economic power of America, but also our national security. It's failed policies over the past 40 + years that have led to this situation and the only way the American people have to counter that is to save. Spending going down is a good thing, not a bad thing in this case. Contrary to your firm belief in the technology sector, you will never create enough jobs in this nation in that sector to replace the overwhelming loss of manufacturing jobs, even with a massive fiber network to every house and business. As for green energy, longterm it is the way to go. But the government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing it at all. It's actually counter-productive to do so in many cases since it places a good % of the risk on the taxpayer in an unnecessary situation. If it's federal tax dollars, which a majority of the subsidies are, and the power generated has no bearing or effects on sectors or regions of the nation, then why should they share the burden of the cost. Afterall, power is not like the Eisenhower thruway system, not all benefit from it nationally.

This is a classic post. And can you get any truthier than this............

Well nfreeman, to be quite honest with you, the GOP are evil........ Just sayin......... :P

Of course it does. It only verify's what most of us already know, that a good portion of politicians in this nation consider themselves the bourgeois class of society and thumb their collective noses at the rest of us. More and more it's becoming increasingly transparent that there is a true class warfare situation ongoing in this nation, where the "aristocracy" type atmosphere is unbelievable.

The gentleman who runs the program that oversees this particular shelter claimed to be "a-political" and an independent, however, new information has come to light. Update: Antal, who describes himself as an independent, has voted in Democratic primaries for the past 17 years. Although, regardless of the guys political leanings, it was a dick move by the GOP. Typical fat-cat's trying to look like everyday Americans........ And the drum beat rolls on................

Actually, your incorrect as well. The recession (which never ended by the way) was not in fact started by the reasons you listed here, nor did they have any foundational value to the current state of economic affairs in the nation. The recession started back during Reagan's tenure, when the tearing down of financial laws began to take place. It went right up through Clinton (who is equally as guilty of it) and Bush 2, and continues to this day. Dodd-Frank is a joke. The nation is pretty much screwed, but many are to niave to see it.

Interesting concept, but won't happen. As for what needs to be done, well, someone argued on here earlier that protectionism would harm the economy. This is false. Short term, there would be a dip, but long term it is the only viable solution to maintain solvency at the economic level for this nation. Since the inception of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 it was only WAR that brought on sustainability in this nations economy. Every other period of time under this economic model has been a total and utter failure. This is not theory, it's fact.

The bolded number is currently collecting unemployment, as reported by the states. No one knows the actual number as has been pointed out, but a brief analysis of the individuals that are in my life indicates roughly 12% unemployment. Granted, it's not a scientific study by any stretch, but since my field of work allows me to work with individuals and go to areas nation wide, it's a fair sight better figure than grasping at straws. To the underlined: I am no Romney supporter to be sure, but isn't this a rather presumptuous characterization of what thoughts roll around in Romney's head? Addressing the Red: Now that's just plain funny, and, although I have no evidence to support that statement I find myself in belief that Romney actually does believe in this type of thinking. The guy just appears to be a self-centered twit, to me in any event.

I never indicated one individual, or politician is at fault for this. I do however, firmly believe in common sense, and at this time, looking at whats happened to the decimated industries in America, to insinuate that policy, both from the WH as well as the Congressional delegations couldn't change it is just foolishness. Of course they can change it. They have the ability to sway things much more than you indicate in this post on this given subject.

Exactly. It's the secret everyone knows, but are either afraid to confront it head on or are directly making money off of it. And everyone here knows what that is, the China problem. Wake up America, is all I can say. Manufacturing, over 50% of which went directly to China with countries such as Indonesia, Vietnam, Brazil, Mexico and several others making up the majority of the rest of the % needs to come back, and in a big way. The truth of the matter is that the .com scenairo was a bust, there isn't enough high tech jobs to remotely come close to replacing the massive number of manufacturing jobs lost, this is a fact, not some theory, as we are all living it out daily now. Until this problem is seriously, and I mean seriously dealt with, the United States economy will continue to hobble. Let's not even mention the amount of borrowing we are doing from China. Something just doesn't smell fishy, something has an infection, and unless it's cleaned up, you'll smell her walking down the street from 3 blocks away, 5 blocks with a good breeze going.......... You all get my drift.

Normally, I'd agree with you. But the issue today is not, in point of fact, who is elected to the white house. The issue for the real shakers and movers as far as investment in the states goes is going to rely heavily on the congressional elections. Without them, I can't see many who are now on the sideline loosening up the purse strings and taking a vested position here at this time. And I know the recent numbers point to an upswing in major indecies, housing, markets, consumer confidence and so on....... but the truth is, there is still massive uncertainty in unemployment, and the current employment being created, well over 30%, is infrastructure, short term at best. Something needs to be done and there is only 2 ways to do it, as far as I can see. Either you bring the jobs back, a majority of them that were outsourced in order to fulfill budgetary obligations, stablize the local and state situations or, you massively cut and tax.

Agreed, and a big dissappointment for individuals such as myself who are actively seeking a political party platform that uses common sense while addressing issues. The Tea Party has lost a good deal of it's steam due to the consistent interferrence by the heavily leaning right in my opinion.

Yea TB, I'm looking at the single largest threat to the US since WW2, that of the debt and deficit combined with the pressures and manipulations of the US dollar. It is the single issue every citizen should be focusing on in my opinion. Libertarian's main platform isn't economic, it's the constitution.

I should have specified Economic Conservative.

Excessive military adventures that result in wasted tax dollars (yes, I'm referring to the empire America is trying to maintain, by massive debt I might add) and a so-called war on drugs, in which you can never win it specifically due to the limited abilities of the world where a majority of these products come from and in-turn, leads to more massive waste of spending are hardly what I would call "conservative causes". Just sayin..........

????????????? Space Cadet? The guy is by far the most intellegent member in either house of congress. He's been spot on for years now, in both his views as well as the substance behind those views.

You can't be serious that you didn't like Ron Paul? Are you? He's the most conservative candidate, and the most intellegent when it comes to the issues of the day that I have come across.

Obama has the upper hand this election given the historical context of 2nd termer's. I don't like it, but as of now, Romney has laid out no detailed planning on what his plans are in so far as details. He appears to be floating on the assumption that the dislike for Obama's policies over the past 4 years are going to sway enough of the independents and swing voters to push him over the top. That's not pro-active, and the American people are looking for pro-active.

Absolutely LGR4GM, many, and I mean many Americans, both locally here as well as nationally have a tendency to discount the Founding Fathers as outdated or simply not informed accurately or fully on them. The truth is that we need look no further than the founders wisdom to stay the course, even in modern times. They may not have faced all of the issues we find ourselves wrapped up in modern times, but in the end, they saw fit to leave a legacy that is put into our hands, the citizens. By doing such, we the people, and we alone are responsible for the destiny of our times and the journey through them.

Same thing can be said of Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, Clinton and Carter, and I'm sure others in the history of the presidency. Oh, people on the right will point to Reagan and say he was a god send, but the reality is quite different than their fantasy world. Still, people on the left will point to Clinton and say look, the economy was humming and the budgets were surplus and so on, but the reality is it wasn't him alone that accomplished that, Gingrich had a hand in it as well, as it took both sides of the aisle to come together to accomplish it. Besides, Clinton lied to the American people on something as petty as a vaginally dipped cigar. If he's capable of panic mode in that situation, imagine what he's capable of in very serious situations. And the examples can go on.............

To the bolded Red: Alliances with none, trade with all ~ Thomas Jefferson To the bolded Green: "A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. ... We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men". (Just before he died, Wilson is reported to have stated to friends that he had been "deceived" and that "I have betrayed my Country". He referred to the Federal Reserve Act passed during his Presidency.) To the bolded Blue: This is true in many ways. With that being said, as I've pointed to in a couple of past posts, the Presidency is merely a puppet, or figurehead position if you will. The Oligarchy the controls this nation is like the "Great Oz". Once the curtain is pulled back by the majority of citizens after the coming collapse in 13/14 (and it will come, don't fool yourselves, you cannot just print fiat currency without inflation eventually taking hold) I would imagine the "Great Oz" will not be so happy to see all of the torches and pitchforks while they are being carried away to the gallos. I normally never plug a book, but this gentleman, along with several others such as Peter Schiff are dead on correct. The book it titled "Aftershock" The author is Robert Wiedemer

Oh, I hadn't realized the soul reason for drafting him was specifically to counter the likes of Chara and Lucic.The truth is, he wasn't drafted for that specific role. And if your that afraid of Chara and Lucic then 29 other teams may as well pack it in and call it a day. :o :doh: