dudacek

Except for a bubble team they might be. I had never really broken down this kinda stuff in that way, but it kinda supports my theory that teams become good by incremental improvements across the roster as much or moreso than anything else. And stars have less of an impact than we think. A top centre playing over 20 minutes a night doesn't even account for close to 10 per cent of his team.

It's not quite that simple because linemates and role affect player value: Olofsson was a far more useful player riding shotgun with Sam and Jack than he was on a 2nd line with Mitts and Jost. Mitts played like a star with Tuch and Skinner. But I can get on board for sake of argument. Assuming Olofsson is 80 percent of the player Quinn is, and that roster spot represents 5% of the Sabres lineup, for half a season, aren't we talking the team taking a 0.5% hit this year replacing Quinn with Olofsson? The 80 percent is completely made up, the 5% is a rough estimate, and every percentage point matters to a bubble team, but i think this kinda shows the degree of impact Quinn's injury could have on the current roster. I'm sure Tatar would help, but I'm not sure how significant that help would be.

A lot of people around here think Olofsson isn’t an NHL player, or at least one with much value. I think most GMs would love to have an Olofsson handy to plug into their lineup at no acquisition cost if a regular forward went down for a half-season with injury. I also think that guys like Rousek and Kulich need to see they have opportunity and giving them the first shot when an opportunity arises is sound people management. But only once your organization has arrived at the point where it has that kind of organizational depth. That’s what I meant when I said that “next man up” is what a strong organization would do.

Mitts replacing Quinn on the 2nd line is not a downgrade, but that isn’t really what we are talking about here since Mitts was better than Quinn last year anyway. I mean you’re absolutely right that every person in the lineup can move up a slot without a huge net overall loss if your depth is strong. But @thorny is also right that your team might be better if you moved Tatar into the lineup instead of Olofsson.

The Sabres have a ton of defencemen. Depth is not an issue, I am interested in Dumba if he’s a clearly going to be our 3 or 4. I’m not sure if he is that player any more.

This is what a team that believes in its depth would do.

Putting aside the goalie factor for a moment and consider how often a prospect as good as Matt Savoie gets moved for a rental. For the Sabres, Hellebuyck is essentially a rental.

@nfreeman seems to be suggesting Hellebuyck won’t be moved unless you are including a centrepiece better than Östlund or Rosen in the deal. I think it’s kinda the opposite: he won’t be moved until someone offers a piece as good as Östlund or Rosen in the deal.

The Jets know what they’ll get for Helle if they trade him now. They’re betting they’ll get more if a Levi or a Vanacek or a Husso falls on his face this fall.

I’d would much rather go with an unproven guy in the system already than a proven JAG like Nick Ritchie or Jesse Puljujarvi. Kulich or Savoie could be like Peterka was last year: good enough to play and develop, not good enough to make a difference. Tatar or Suter on a 1-year deal make a ton of sense to me.

It would be a huge surprise if Maxim Strbak doesn’t play for Slovakia, and Norwin Panocha is a possibility for Germany. He was considered a possible winger during his draft year too, which seems to be largely a function of his size. He’s got high-end speed, excellent hockey sense, takes a ton of faceoffs and is conscientious defensively. He was a 1st-line centre pretty much exclusively for the ICE, ahead of the guy (Geekie) Pronman mocks as Canada’s 1C.. Briere was the centre of his line, but it seemed to be Hecht was the one who did the heavy lifting down low in the defensive zone. Fleury played both centre and wing. Keller is a winger. Those are some high-end comparables. I think if he ends up at wing it will be more a function of depth and chemistry choices, rather than any unsuitability for the position

Maybe they are looking at it like you often do: Savoie closer to the NHL? Savoie was a higher pick? Savoie is more physically developed? Savoie had a more impressive playoff? Savoie is a faster skater? It’s not like they said Mittelstadt is better than Thompson, more like Peterka is better than Quinn. It’s a minority opinion but it’s not indefensible 🤷

Depends what the other team thinks of those pieces and how badly they are looking to sell. Prospect valuations are all over the board. I think Östlund is significantly better than Rosen, others disagree. Is Devon Levi a recent 7th round pick, or an NHL starter in the making? Are Cody Hodgson and Zach Kassian potential core pieces, or prospects their drafting team has developed serious doubts about? The Devils might flip Alexander Holtz for a goalie. I see him as a Rosen, others might see him as a Quinn. Hellebuyck has a motivated seller. When he goes, it will be for a package, the best piece of which some will see as the equivalent of Rosen or Östlund.

65 Roses. He arrived shortly after what was, at the time, the nadir of Sabres fandom.

Even Kevyn Adams would agree. It'just that many aren't too certain of his choices.

i always have to default of the most ever given up for a goalie being pick #9 and that was for a young but proven goalie expected to be your franchise #1 for years.. Quinn was pick 8 and has justified it so far. Savoie was pick 9 and held value. Some think Benson and Kulich are better than Savoie and Peterka is at a similar level. I don' think any of them should be necessary to get any goalie, particularly one with a big contract, or the expectations of a big contract.

Does a Greenway Krebs VO line getting probably the easiest matchups frighten you? Jost can play with the vets and Mitts Cozens and Peterka could be good.

Who we paid $2 million. maybe the oddest move of the off-season to me. i have no problem with Greenway in a middle 6 role alongside Cozens, Krebs or Mittelstadt. In fact that's where I expect him.

Just a reminder that over the 3 seasons prior to last year Jordan Greenway averaged nearly 15 minutes a night and just under a point for every 2 games played for a good Minnesota team. He was a plus player in hard defensive minutes. The Sabres also gave up a 2nd-rounder to get him. I am surprised by how many people continue to put him in a 4th line role.

This is an interesting exercise: 1 Ullmark Samsonov Vaselivskiy Bobrovsky Levi Korpisalo Husso Montembeault 2 Swayman Woll Johansson Stolarz Luukkonen Forsberg Reimer Allen 3 Bussi Murray* Alnefelt Knight* Comrie Sogaard Lyon DeSmith 4 Dipietro ???? Tomkins Guzda Tokarski Mandolese Cossa Primeau

I'm of a mind that the difference between the better of Comrie/UPL and most of the other backups they will have to match (Johansson, DeSmith, Reimer, Woll, Nedelkjovic, Forsberg, Quick, Petersen...) is not particularly substantial. But it is certainly a drop below Varlamov and Knight and Swayman, so you're right, it matters.

Curious about what the standing ask and offer is for Gibson, or if they’ve even made an offer on Hellebuyck. I think we just saw in San Jose shows what happens when a big contract is forcing his way out and the team feels the prudent thing to do is comply. Both those guys have definitely reached the “want out” stage and both come with tickets that have to depress their market and/or price.

I have little faith in Comrie or UPL. I had little in most of Ryan Miller’s backups, or Dom’s either. I’ve been saying this for a year now: Devon Levi will be a star. If it happens this year, all of this becomes moot.

Fair. Still, all 3 got hurt and they were leading a team with 5 first-year players and as many more who had played less than 200 NHL games. And they missed by a single win. That team brings nearly every key player back, and with more experience, and added Greenway, Stillman, Clifton, Johnson and Levi to target areas of need. I too would have liked to see the GM do more. But there should be enough there to be a playoff team.

I agree with this, even though I think this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed. Here’s why, and this fits this thread very well and doesn’t get talked about enough as we retread the same old worn-out ground about needing another goalie, or what a great prospect pool we have. Rasmus Dahlin is among the best defenceman in the NHL and is certainly the best defenceman ever to wear blue and gold. He has first-tier talent, first-tier size and first-tier compete. He is a stud and every inch capable of being the lead dog on a Stanley Cup-winning blueline. Tage Thompson may or may not be a top 10 centre given the holes in his defensive game, but he is an absolute top 10 game-breaker, in terms of being a player who can create highlight reel goals on his own. McDavid is without parallel of course, but who else in the league combines those one-on-one moves with that absolute bomb of a shot the way Tage does? Not many. Never mind the physical unicorn that he is. Eichel, Mogilny, Lafontaine, Martin, Perreault… who else in franchise history has shown the level of offensive talent we saw last year? And how good is Alex Tuch? 6’4” 220 pounds, sees the ice well, deceptive shot, impressive forechecker, impressive backchecker, an all-around all-situations player and an absolute freight train on the rush. Great dude who sets a tone and represents the franchise and the city the way you want it represented. Every intangible you could ask for AND he was the 5th highest points/game Right Wing in the league last year. These guys aren’t “potential” or “projections”, they are - right here, right now - the best D/C/W trio this franchise has had in at least a generation.