Patty16
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Posts posted by Patty16
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What do you have to base that on?
Im not sure, there's a feeling that Nolan has no idea how to "teach" someone to be goal scorer.
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I see it the same way as SFiR. I've noticed his game pick up with each trip to the big club. Soon the Sabres will be much deeper at center. If he wants to be in the NHL he's going to have ot compete for a job. Hopefully that will keep the "coast" out of his game.
I hope so too, he has a high ceiling IMO.
He's been getinng lots of ice and just hasnt been able to tput it together yet. He hasn't had the ideal path to be sure, but he's got to earn his way back in.
Thank you for the clarification. I guess it's good he got the minutes. But, I am happy to see him in Rochester. Let him try to come back up next year and prove himself to a new coach, with a clean slate.
Enlighten me to who these players are.
I agree
Thank you for the clarification. I guess it's good he got the minutes. But, I am happy to see him in Rochester. Let him try to come back up next year and prove himself to a new coach, with a clean slate.
Enlighten me to who these players are.
Those players? last game it was 12 and 82, the second line. You can't keep blaming his linemates for his almost non existent production. if Phil Varone can outscore him playing on the bottom lines, Grigo should be able to as well.
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I believe I was watching the Ottawa game, and I watched Grigorenko go behind the net and fight for a puck. The Sabres were able to maintain possession for another pass or two based on his effort. It did not gain attention and was not mentioned by the broadcast because nothing resulted out of his play. I think he is capable of that, and just as I am singling out one specific example, maybe the coaches are doing the same. FInding instances when he didn't win battles. However, if I were fighting for a puck, and feeding it to Matt Ellis, who watches it bounce off his stick, or in turn gives the puck away, I don't know how hard I would be fighting for it either.
I am a Grigorenko fan. I don't think he is 100% NHL ready, but I don't think you can judge him by the cast of characters he has on his line. I believe playing in the NHL right now gives him a taste for the speed and level of talent he will face, but as a Grigorenko hopeful, I would rather see him in Rochester instead of playing 6 minutes on a checking line, because he has to prove his effort. This is why I am tired of Ted Nolan and his "compete" approach.
Yea but that example isnt his consistent play. He surely does that a few times a game, but he lacks effort too many other times. He hasn't produced enough chances when he's been with better linemates
He's also avg 15 mins a game, if he was ready he would be generating at least something even with poor linemates.
Way too many people are finding excuses for him, he's not ready yet.
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Grigorenko is lazy. Either that or, like most Latvians, Teddy doesn't like Russians. :angel:
Well he's certainly not hustling, and in the NHL he can't get by on his skill alone, bc while he clearly has talent, he's not good enough to coast.
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Hopefully he'll get it. He's gotta fight for pucks in the defensive end instead of, as one of the writers wrote recently, "waiting for others to get the puck to him."
Also, I like Hoppe, but he's gotta stay away from the cliches. Sentence number two.
Yea that's been his issue, he doesn't fight for pucks or seem hungry out there.
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I think a lost season is the perfect time to give Grigo skilled linemates for 10 games and a chance to "get it." That's what I'm blaming TN for. This season should be about developing the future, but all TN can seem to do is try to win with grinders for life.
I get that point. I think TN puts a little too much emphasis on that, but what he supposed to say... we suck?
Grigo problem is his lack of effort. He never does the things that the great players do... hustle for puck and put in the effort every shift. You never see the top scorers i nthe league float around like he does.
If he was really a 1st round talent he wouldnt need linemates to prove himself. It's not like he's out there creating chances but has no one to pass to or feed the puck.
And it's not TN call to send Grigo back down, its GMTM.... so he must not like his game either.
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You are right about the 15 minutes TOI average.
Yup. You'd think that after ruining his contract status and having him up with the big club way too early, that somewhere in the 55 Sabres games that he's dressed for we'd give him skilled wingers for just one of those games.
Varone will always outshine Grigorenko and Hodgson in TN's eyes. That doesn't make him good, or even an NHLer.
He will either be traded or on the Sabres roster, because he's subject to waivers next year.
My point is he looks like more of an NHLer out there than Grigo.... he's floating around too much and doesn't seem hungry for the puck.
I dont' see how so many are blaming TN for Grigo...he's had 55 NHL games and isnt proving himself to be a regular NHLer .... yet. Players like can take a while to "get it"
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I wasn't watching too closely, but I seem to recall Grigs being demoted to the 4th line after 2 shits. He was with 12 and 82 while Varone was with 63 and 26.
I think he took one shift off then was back with them, according to PH at WGR he played most of the game with 12 and 82. Dude is getting his opportunities but when Phil Varone is outshining you, its not good.
I'd also point out that Foligno and Gionta...are, in fact, grinders.
either way, he's getting his chances to play with better forwards. He isnt showing much improvement. He's gonna be down in the AHL next year without a lot of improvement
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Based on what? The few times this year that Nolan played him ~5 minutes a game with grinders? The nature of Grigorenko's game is that he won't be providing much value for this team unless we play him with skilled wingers.
Last game he played with 12 and 82 I believe for over two periods. He's invisible on the ice and has been avg 15 mins a game.
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My guess is Murray planned on more but saw he was just going to be stashed in the 4th line and said screw it.
He was an emergency callup so only one game. Based on Nolan's comment this morning, he relaly did not like his game. I have to say Grigo isnt exactly inspiring
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Makarov called up, no word on why
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The reason I don't think possession is as good as beating Brady up is that holding the ball doesn't knock Brady off his game--he doesn't need the ball for 40 minutes to throw 4 TDs. But get him on the ground a lot? Then he, like almost every other pocket passer, starts getting happy feet and the timing gets all out of whack. I also think it's easier to find a guard in the middle of the draft than someone who can get you 10 sacks (even if the Bills are struggling with this). And finally, Mario isn't getting any younger, so I'd really like to have one edge rusher in place already for when Mario moves on.
Bingo, that's the only way to really beat him. The best way is like you said below, have incredible front 4 pressure so that you still have adequate coverage downfield. It's very difficult to beat a Def that has that kind of rush. then again you don't see Def that can do that consistently too much. When you do, they generally go pretty far even with average-above avg QB play.
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Well with Zemgus out for the season (most likely) it sounds like they may give Grigorenko 18 games to show what he's got. If that is the case I hope he keeps improving every night. Not to nitpick but Grigorenko will turn 21 in May, but you are right, still just a young kid learning his way.
Oops, yea you are right he does. I must have had something else on the mind when I wrote that. I really hope he develops more, but not too much where he takes us on a huge winning streak ha.
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Don't worry about Weave.
I think since he is an RFA who has proven at the very least he can play in the AHL, he will get a contract. At the very least you want him signed so you could package him in a trade. He has 2nd line C upside and good size for the NHL. If he puts it all together he could very well make it. The really issue is we should not have even seen Mikhail in Buffalo until this season. Yet another DR screw up.
I agree there. He will have his chance to show us more the rest of this season. Can't say I'm all that excited about what I've seen so far but he's just a kid, still only 19.
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Not sure they will qualify him?
Yea and what weave meant
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Careful. You are inviting a response in all caps and exclamation points that addresses a point you didn't make.
That Grigorenko is an RFA so they will give him at least another contract?
Careful. You are inviting a response in all caps and exclamation points that addresses a point you didn't make.
Im not sure
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I'm rather curious about what Murray's plan is for Grigo. I could see Grigorenko not being a Murray kind of player and getting shipped off, but I think he's going to turn out to be a decent NHl center. Not a great one, but a good one. A career path ala Derick Brassard wouldn't surprise me at all.
I believe his contract is up at the end of the year. Will be interesting to see if they want to bring him back. He's shown flashes but really needs to improve skating and get stronger like Sam
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I'd meddle.
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Yes sir. Been waiting for this type of team for years.
Jim Kelly was an immature a-hole when he was that age too.... but a damn good player. People put way too much into personalities, if the player is a beast the main concern is if he's a cancer in the room. Even then teammates will tolerate it if he produces.
Players have been doing this dumb ish for years, it's just easier to get caught.
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I feel terrible for the kid. Knowing the kind of rare heart he plays with, it was almost tragic watching him flail on the ice. Like a thoroughbred coming up lame. Hope he comes back strong.
GO SABRES!!!
Wow, I could not have said it better. Well done :beer:
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There are kids in college playing sports at a high level that routinely show up for their meetings. I am not responding to only 19 year old athletes in the NHL.
As to not knowing what needs to be done I completely disagree. He gets paid a lot of money to play hockey. So much money that many of the day to day concerns that people like us have to account for do not apply to him. He has responsibilities and being responsible is something everyone should be capable of doing AND should do. I have a lot of requirements made upon me on a day to day basis and I pride myself on meeting those requirements. It's not being hard on him. It's being real. Why is it okay to lower a level of expectation of commitment? Why should anyone? I didn't speak up too much when he missed a flight.
Helpful. I think questioning his commitment to his teammates is warranted here. As for who has what in a bunch, I would suggest that perhaps we engage in a conversation to improve understanding as opposed to speaking of undergarment problems and making sweeping generalizations as to how this impacts people. Perhaps you aren't referring to me in your comment, but given that I am speaking of this as being a problem it is easy for me to feel that you are addressing me with that comment (among others).
As I said, for me, I don't care about his problems. It's his teammates who are impacted.
As a coach of children I routinely enforce the concept of team and that when one player makes a mistake related to the team it impacts more than just them. We had a kid the other day forget his hockey pants before a quarter-final playoff game. He was joking around about it as though it was no big deal. The leaders on the team set him straight very fast. I don't force kids to make choices on what they want to do and choose to do. I merely enforce that all decisions come with consequences. So when kids choose to miss practice for some other reason that's their decision. However, quantitatively, they are choosing to not be as committed to the team as someone else might be. They are missing out on coaching opportunities and opportunities to improve their skills. They are negatively impacting the team through that decision. It is what it is but the reality doesn't change.
In this situation the team suspended him and rightfully so. It's his second suspension this season for non-hockey offenses. How many players get suspended in a season for one non-hockey offense, let alone two? How many players in any league have that happen?
I played NCAA and lots of 19 year olds miss or are late to meetings, but it's not always news or results in a suspension. It's life. 19 year olds arent perfect at anything and any NHL GM will tell you that.
No one is saying what he did is right or should be left un-addressed, but hes a kid and has a lot to learn.
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Your argument is completely invalid. The vast majority of our professions do not operate the same way. It's not about being late. It's about not being on time for a meeting when important information will be discussed related to the upcoming opponent. Perhaps in that situation it would most resemble me being late to a prep meeting for my senior management when they would be meeting on a high value deal in just a few hours. The time does not get made up and there are other things to do. So, if I show up late to that meeting I'm betting my ass is on the line. I do it twice the odds are good I am unemployed.
You want to dismiss all of these incidents. He's 19. Well, strangely enough there are a lot of 19 year old athletes that don't get suspended. In fact, I would say the vast majority of them. So, the sample size is pretty large. Immaturity is one thing but those are want to succeed know that you show up when you are supposed to show up. If his thought processes are such that he wants to push things to the limit that's fine. It probably helps make him a different kind of player but it also means that there is zero room for error and when an error occurs you pay the price.
Zadarov seems to think that he can just show up and play the game. It doesn't work that way. He might learn, he might not. But right now he is showing a pattern where he doesn't seem to care enough to improve.
Am I concerned about it? Nope. I don't really care but if I was on his team I would have chewed his ass out up and down and I wouldn't think highly of him. He's putting himself before the team and that's a huge issue.
There's only a handful of under 20 kids who play regularly in any given season.
It looks really bad on him to have two incidents in such a short time. But A LOT of incidents happen with younger players and don't make it into the news, but the team is aware.
You're being pretty hard on the kid who is only 19 and playing in the best league in the world. None of us know what it like and none of our jobs are similar.
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I can rail against him for having been a meddler, applaud him for stopping and give Tim credit for the result. If that's how it plays out, yes, I can. It's a nuanced point. I don't expect TrueBlue to get it, because it's not iPegula%. I expect more from you. I am disappointed. Your mother and I both.
Golisano vs. Pegula. Tom didn't know a puck from a meatball, and he admitted as much. He'd never get down in the trenches with GMs and scouts. He was appropriately involved and informed. First four years of Terry vs. first four years of Tom, who's the better owner?
I always find it odd that many of Pegula's defenders will only defend him to a point. They point out he's doing what every other owner does, he has a right to be informed, etc. No one seems to be comfortable with taking the privileges of ownership to the logical extreme. Do you or do you not want Terry to have the right to pick up the phone and tell Murray to trade one of Risto/Zads? If not, why not? He owns the team!
He has the right to that if he wants.
Again, you're dodging the point to make an obtuse suggestion.... That TP has interefered with hockey ops or made roster demands.
I'm not here to defend or not defend TP, but I have several friends working inside NHL orgs and I can tell you without question TP is not even top 5 "meddling" owners or ownership groups.
The reason people keep telling you "everyone does it" is bc you and others are suggesting that an involved owner is ipso facto a bad thing.... when it's not. Then you insist on taking things to the "logical extreme" which is actually a logical fallacy, and dilutes your postulations quite significantly. Your misuse of logic isn't helping your and others' cause.
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I am sure the relentless media is the main argument against Toronto.
Has to be. It's a world class city but it can't be fun to have every shift scrutinized 24/7 and not be able to go out for dinner without being stared at, kinda like playing for the Yankees but with an accent.
Grigorenko
in The Aud Club
Posted
Yea its not like that anymore, top players hustle almost every shift and fight to be around the puck,
Your scenario doesn't hold up tho, Grigo isnt doing anything you mention with any regularity, he's not getting loose pucks and/or not scoring points. THATS why he isnt staying around.
You can't evaluate his play as an either or proposition, it's not. He's not ready yet and we can blame TN his linemates or whoever but he would be here if he was ready.