deluca67 Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 What a truly assinine thing to say. Besides the typo it's dead on. What is Ray known for? His uniform coming off. It's not for beating anyone. Even with the cheating he still got his head pounded in. The only true heavyweight he challenged was Domi and he got beat up every time. Thank heavens that the "New" NHL will cause the Ray's and Peter's of the world to die off. The game is called Hockey. Not wrestling. Turning the game over to the talented players will hel this game take off to a height where it should be. Right there with Football and Baseball. And. When Ray was younger? He hid behind May. While May was taking on the big guys Ray picked up the scaps and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Besides the typo it's dead on. What is Ray known for? His uniform coming off. It's not for beating anyone. Even with the cheating he still got his head pounded in. The only true heavyweight he challenged was Domi and he got beat up every time. Thank heavens that the "New" NHL will cause the Ray's and Peter's of the world to die off. The game is called Hockey. Not wrestling. Turning the game over to the talented players will hel this game take off to a height where it should be. Right there with Football and Baseball. And. When Ray was younger? He hid behind May. While May was taking on the big guys Ray picked up the scaps and lost. I have no problem with Peters "juicing" is "dead on"? Comparing a guy taking his shirt off with a guy messing up his health for the rest of his life is "dead on"? What an asinine thing to say. You are truly a piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 DeLuca -- sorry, but Playfair is #1, Schony is #2 and nobody else is even close. Playfair gets the nod for being undisputed, undefeated league heavyweight champ for his entire NHL career. I'd rather have Schony on my team b/c he was a really good player AND he challenged the entire Bruins team, but if the list is fighters, it's Playfair. I don't really dislike any current players, although I'm glad to be rid of Miro. Previous enemies: 1. Dale Hunter 2. Ken Linseman 3. Mike Palmateer -- maybe not his fault, but he ended Rico's career on a knee-to-knee hit 4. Scotty Bowman -- nobody talks about it, but he traded away Martin, Gare, Schony, etc., and never got the sabres anywhere. 5. The Rigases -- almost cost us the team Go Sabres. Overall? You may be right. No? You are right on Schony. Macguire was a heavy hitter and May knocked out guys. Was it Jim Kite of the Jets that May knocked out with one punch? He didn't need a tear away jersey to do it. I guess I rank Playfair lower because most of the fights I can remember were against Chris Nilan. Nilan being the Rob Ray of his time. Willing? But not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabres522 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 lets see... 1. Jeremy Roenick...he's just an ass who talks too much for his own good 2. Darcy Tucker - one of those guys u'd love to have on your team but hate otherwise..and i do ...those are the two notables..also included in no order Tie Domi, Eric Lindros, Brett Hull, (smug mother fu......) Slava Kozlov (as discussed in the other thread), Sidney Crosby (who's rising quickly), and anybody else that scores a goal on us at any particular moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phSabres84 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 1. Miro Satan - just get out! 2. J. Roenick - whinny! 3. Dom Hasek - crybaby fool 4. T. Bertuzzi - bigger thug than D Tucker ever dreamed of being 5. G.B. "The Commish" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber61 Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 1)Mario Lemiux: cry baby and owner of team that couldn't win even if they had an allstar team. its the logo on the sweater i tell ya. 2)Sidney Crosby: too much damn hype and not enough performance... wasn't he supposed to be the saviour of the penguins... ha no.......... 3)Dany Heatley: Other then killing his own friend he's a smug arrogant ass... 4)Todd Bertuzzi: not alot of class there... shame he's on our olypmic team... 5)Darcy Tucker: big cheapshot artist that doesn't do much on the ice and still gets paid for his disastourous play... leaving your feet while hitting is against the rules darcy... remeber that! Oh wow... notice there all canadian... must be cuze they think the hockey world revolves around them... sorry im canadian too but i think its just arrogant to think that were always the best... yea the gold medals prove it but those 5 guys are embaressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan81 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 So many to choose from, but here's my top 5. 1.) Doug Gilmore: I know he doesn't play anymore, but I hated that motherf---er even in a Sabres jersey. He had a bad case of "little man's" syndrome. I believe it was Vaclav Varada he took a run at th knees trying to end his career. 2.) Brendan Shannahan: Biggest fcuking crybaby i've ever seen. I can't recall ever seeing him get called for a penalty and him not throwing a huge fit to the ref. He likes to dive too. 3.) Darius Kasparaitis: Cheap shot artist 4.) Derian Hatcher: Cheap shot artist 5.) John Erskine: Straight up goon. He's about as worthless as the nutrition label on bottled water. Has played in 24 games, no points, -4 and has 60 penalty minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 1)Mario Lemiux: cry baby and owner of team that couldn't win even if they had an allstar team. its the logo on the sweater i tell ya. 2)Sidney Crosby: too much damn hype and not enough performance... wasn't he supposed to be the saviour of the penguins... ha no.......... 3)Dany Heatley: Other then killing his own friend he's a smug arrogant ass... 4)Todd Bertuzzi: not alot of class there... shame he's on our olypmic team... 5)Darcy Tucker: big cheapshot artist that doesn't do much on the ice and still gets paid for his disastourous play... leaving your feet while hitting is against the rules darcy... remeber that! Oh wow... notice there all canadian... must be cuze they think the hockey world revolves around them... sorry im canadian too but i think its just arrogant to think that were always the best... yea the gold medals prove it but those 5 guys are embaressing. I disagree with your assessment of Crosby. The kid whines too much, but he's a damn good player. I think people are expecting too much of him. He's only 18!!! Even comparing him to Ovechkin is unfair because Ovechkin is 21. Look at what Crosby is doing now, and imagine what he's going to be like in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp... Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I disagree with your assessment of Crosby. The kid whines too much, but he's a damn good player. I think people are expecting too much of him. He's only 18!!! Even comparing him to Ovechkin is unfair because Ovechkin is 21. Look at what Crosby is doing now, and imagine what he's going to be like in 3 years. Agree with what you say...I think Crosby will be the type of player to lead his team to win a cup, moreso than a Ovechkin, who is more about himself than the team ( imo) I don't even think he whines that much more than most players, you just notice it more because the spotlight is on him 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I have no problem with Peters "juicing" is "dead on"? Comparing a guy taking his shirt off with a guy messing up his health for the rest of his life is "dead on"? What an asinine thing to say. You are truly a piece of work. You have no problem with a guy cheating to get an advantage in a fight? Cheating is cheating. If it's a guy sticking a needle in his arm or a guy rigging his uniform to get his arms free? It's the same thing. Ray might as well been wrapping his fists in foil. The fact is straight up 1 on 1 Ray couldn't win a fight to save his life. He resorted to cheating just like Peters did to prolong his sad a$$ career. Ray had no business on an NHL then like Peters has no business today. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp... Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 The fact is straight up 1 on 1 Ray couldn't win a fight to save his life. He resorted to cheating just like Peters did to prolong his sad a$$ career. Ray had no business on an NHL then like Peters has no business today. That is far too harsh my friend... Ray gave his heart and soul every nite, while he didn't have the scoring touch, he stood up for those that did which isn't an easy job...for that i would say he did have a place in the NHL... Your right about the jersey thing, it was cheep, but it worked and it wasn't a rule so why not... If you are a fight enthusiat (sp?) like myself, you know that he won his fair share of fights later in his career...he had some trouble early :blink: Peters, on the other hand, has no business on this team...the way the league is now, he's wasting a roster spot...that i agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 That is far too harsh my friend... Ray gave his heart and soul every nite, while he didn't have the scoring touch, he stood up for those that did which isn't an easy job...for that i would say he did have a place in the NHL... Your right about the jersey thing, it was cheep, but it worked and it wasn't a rule so why not... If you are a fight enthusiat (sp?) like myself, you know that he won his fair share of fights later in his career...he had some trouble early :blink: Peters, on the other hand, has no business on this team...the way the league is now, he's wasting a roster spot...that i agree with. Gave his heart and soul for 3 minutes a game :lol: I would disagree about Ray winning fights at any point in his career. If you have a chance to watch the fights do so. Turn the volume off since Rick J will often enhance Rays stature. As far as fights themselves. They are a waste of time. I enjoyed them when fights would happen with players who could play or goalies. Pronger vs Shanahan or Shoney vs Cashman those were fights. Or even a Probert vs Domi clash. Those were great fights. The clown crap that happens today is a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp... Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I would disagree about Ray winning fights at any point in his career. If you have a chance to watch the fights do so. Turn the volume off since Rick J will often enhance Rays stature. Well sir, Ray's record in his last full year of 02-03, was 4 wins, 1 lose, and 3 draws... Although 1 of his wins was against Ponikeraksy (sp?)...remember that one :lol: Ouch! Ask Todd Fedoruk if he even remembers his fight with Ray that year... I told you i watch the fights :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Well sir, Ray's record in his last full year of 02-03, was 4 wins, 1 lose, and 3 draws... Although 1 of his wins was against Ponikeraksy (sp?)...remember that one :lol: Ouch! Ask Todd Fedoruk if he even remembers his fight with Ray that year... I told you i watch the fights :D And the record comes from where? <_< Did the NHL have rink side judges? Or is this the opinion of a Rob Ray fan. I'm sure the fans of the victims involved in the "4 wins" think their guy won :lol: Nice try though. I can appreciate the effort. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 You have no problem with a guy cheating to get an advantage in a fight? Cheating is cheating. If it's a guy sticking a needle in his arm or a guy rigging his uniform to get his arms free? It's the same thing. Ray might as well been wrapping his fists in foil. The fact is straight up 1 on 1 Ray couldn't win a fight to save his life. He resorted to cheating just like Peters did to prolong his sad a$$ career. Ray had no business on an NHL then like Peters has no business today. <_< DeLuca, you call it cheating. I call it gaining a tactical and/or psychological advantage. Other players also had their sweaters come off during fights before using the tie-down or "fighting strap" was made mandatory. Any player that got into a fight could legally do this if they desired. Robbie is the only one that I can think of that used this specifically as a tactic, but that does not make it "cheating". Ray, to the best of my knowledge, never had his sweater come off after the league made use of the "fighting strap" mandatory. Had he done that, I would agree with your description of Ray as a cheater. The league didn't make use of the "fighting strap" mandatory due to "fairness", they didn't think it reflected well on the league to have a player looking like a boxer when he was in a fight. Also, I would have expected you to realize that he did not do it to get his arms free, he did it to keep his opponent from grabbing onto him. It is analogous to the Roman army edict that soldiers be clean shaven so their opponents couldn't grab them by the beard. It is not even remotely comparable to having someone wrapping his fists in foil. I would have expected you to realize this as well. It also could and did (at least 1 time) backfire on Ray as a tactic. He had his eye socket broken when fighting a behemoth from St. Louis (it might have been Tony Twist, I can't remember) when the Blue managed to get Ray tangled up in his sweater as he tried to get it off. Ray was basically defenseless and got pummeled. You already know my opinion of comparing a guy taking off his shirt to "juicing". There is no reason to belabor this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Also, I would have expected you to realize that he did not do it to get his arms free, he did it to keep his opponent from grabbing onto him. It is analogous to the Roman army edict that soldiers be clean shaven so their opponents couldn't grab them by the beard. It is not even remotely comparable to having someone wrapping his fists in foil. I would have expected you to realize this as well. Dave? Really? The only reason he did it was to free up his arms. Come on man you're smarter then that. He did it to get the shots in while the opponet had a handfull of jersey. It was cheap. It was chicken sh!t. It was a cowards move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 DeLuca, you call it cheating. I call it gaining a tactical and/or psychological advantage. Other players also had their sweaters come off during fights before using the tie-down or "fighting strap" was made mandatory. Any player that got into a fight could legally do this if they desired. Robbie is the only one that I can think of that used this specifically as a tactic, but that does not make it "cheating". Ray, to the best of my knowledge, never had his sweater come off after the league made use of the "fighting strap" mandatory. Had he done that, I would agree with your description of Ray as a cheater. The league didn't make use of the "fighting strap" mandatory due to "fairness", they didn't think it reflected well on the league to have a player looking like a boxer when he was in a fight. Also, I would have expected you to realize that he did not do it to get his arms free, he did it to keep his opponent from grabbing onto him. It is analogous to the Roman army edict that soldiers be clean shaven so their opponents couldn't grab them by the beard. It is not even remotely comparable to having someone wrapping his fists in foil. I would have expected you to realize this as well. It also could and did (at least 1 time) backfire on Ray as a tactic. He had his eye socket broken when fighting a behemoth from St. Louis (it might have been Tony Twist, I can't remember) when the Blue managed to get Ray tangled up in his sweater as he tried to get it off. Ray was basically defenseless and got pummeled. You already know my opinion of comparing a guy taking off his shirt to "juicing". There is no reason to belabor this point. i have an old blue and gold game worn jersey of rob's. one time after a game while i was in high school (this is post rob ray rule) i met up with him and he saw the jersey. he proceeded to tell me each and everything he did to that jersey to give him an advantage. to him it was a work of art. he seemed more like an inventor or mad scientist with his favorite creation. i have to agree and say it was done for tactical advantage and not because he was a puss. heck, there are any number of video clips out there on the net where you can watch ray, pre or post tie down rule, beating the crap out of someone else. did he always win? no. one of the greatest ever? hardly. but he was a damn good fighter for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 May was a heavyweight. Ray a bantam weight at best. are you calling ray a bantam weight based on his size, who he fought, or his won-loss record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Dave? Really? The only reason he did it was to free up his arms. Come on man you're smarter then that. He did it to get the shots in while the opponet had a handfull of jersey. It was cheap. It was chicken sh!t. It was a cowards move. DeLuca, there is no possibility of you and I agreeing on this issue. I see no reason to continue our discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor32 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I saw the following ex-Sabes, in no particular order, listed by several people: Hasek, Kozlov, Gilmour, Satan..I could understand Kozlov - I'd have to include him on any list of hated players, but the others? Let's see -- Hasek, greatest goalie in history, singlehandedly took us deep into the playoffs from '98-'01..I was pissed when he orchestrated his own departure and screwed us, then kicked us at his press conference, but he has since apologized, which is more than I can say for Kozlov, Woolley and Heinze - 3 bums who trashed the team and the city on their way out the door Gilmour was a punk past his prime when we got him, and he bitched and whined when he left, but don't forget, when we got him from Chicago, he was scoring at more than a point a game clip and was one of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs in 2000 after our Stanley Cup hangover Satan - a bit of a selfish show-off and not exactly a team player, but he was our top scorer season after season - we need to appreciate him for what he was, not what we thought he could be -- it's not like we picked him high like a Turgeon or Rasmussen -- we essentially stole him from Edmonton and reaped hundreds of points as a result Any list of hated ex-Sabres has to include: Kozlov Woolley Peca As for non-Sabes, any of the following make my blood boil: Domi Simon Lindros Hull LeClair Tucker Corson Kasparitis retired: Hunter Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 are you calling ray a bantam weight based on his size, who he fought, or his won-loss record? D - all of the above. And the fact he had to cheat says more then I can about him. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I saw the following ex-Sabes, in no particular order, listed by several people: Hasek, Kozlov, Gilmour, Satan..I could understand Kozlov - I'd have to include him on any list of hated players, but the others? Let's see -- Hasek, greatest goalie in history, singlehandedly took us deep into the playoffs from '98-'01..I was pissed when he orchestrated his own departure and screwed us, then kicked us at his press conference, but he has since apologized, which is more than I can say for Kozlov, Woolley and Heinze - 3 bums who trashed the team and the city on their way out the door Gilmour was a punk past his prime when we got him, and he bitched and whined when he left, but don't forget, when we got him from Chicago, he was scoring at more than a point a game clip and was one of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs in 2000 after our Stanley Cup hangover Satan - a bit of a selfish show-off and not exactly a team player, but he was our top scorer season after season - we need to appreciate him for what he was, not what we thought he could be -- it's not like we picked him high like a Turgeon or Rasmussen -- we essentially stole him from Edmonton and reaped hundreds of points as a result Any list of hated ex-Sabres has to include: Kozlov Woolley Peca As for non-Sabes, any of the following make my blood boil: Domi Simon Lindros Hull LeClair Tucker Corson Kasparitis retired: Hunter Clarke I would take your whole list and make a damn good team. Simon is another great tough guy. You would never had thought he could chip in 29 goals in a season. A career plus player also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 D - all of the above. And the fact he had to cheat says more then I can about him. <_< i can only find stats since the 95-96 season, but here's a rundown of some of the guys he's fought (i've only included the big names). it's not like he didn't fight heaveyweights once he had to keep his jersey on. 95-96 - paul laus (4x), brashear (2x), domi (3x), twist, ewen (2x), frankie leroux 96-97 - cairns, laus, grimson, odgers, brashear, domi, f. leroux 97-98 - worrell, oliwa, matt johnson, domi, mcsorely, baumgartner, peluso 98-99 - laus, grimson, laraque, worrell, oliwa (2x), domi (3x) 99-00 - odgers, matt johnson, domi, berube, simon 00-01 - langdon, fedoruk, odgers (3x), worrell 01-02 - cairns, laus, langdon, odgers 02-03 - fedoruk, domi, myhres, shelley from 95-96 to 03-04 ray was in 132 fights. i don't care if he only won half of those, he was one of the league's most active enforcers during that period of time, and squared off against some of the league's top heaveyweights on many occasions (see above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp... Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 from 95-96 to 03-04 ray was in 132 fights. i don't care if he only won half of those, he was one of the league's most active enforcers during that period of time, and squared off against some of the league's top heaveyweights on many occasions (see above). I don't think there's much debate...for those of us who love to watch fights and have the dvd's to prove it, Ray battled anyone that wanted to dance, including every last heavyweight in the league...was he the champ of the league?...no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I don't think there's much debate...for those of us who love to watch fights and have the dvd's to prove it, Ray battled anyone that wanted to dance, including every last heavyweight in the league...was he the champ of the league?...no Say what you want about whether Ray won or lost his fights, but he would not back down from anyone. He gets bonus points for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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