inkman Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 LeBron handled his exit about as gracefully as a dog handles its own surprise farts, but he's shown some growth as a man (aside from the smug pose with the two trophies) and has the talent to be forgiven. You never get mad when the greatest players in your game signs with your team. My favorite discussion point that I've heard ad nauseum about Bron Bron is the whole "he was a free agent, he can go where he want" take in reference to when he went to Miami. These fans are invariably bandwagon fans who like the Heat, Cowboys (what's the NFL's new bandwagon team) and the Yankees. The fact tha they don't understand how he left is the issue makes me laugh. He hamstrung the franchise for months waivering about the decision, then decides to have the most pretentious, self rightous display of departure in the modern era of free agency. If he has just said he didn't think he could win in Cleveland due to lack of personnel, most wouldn't have faulted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 My favorite discussion point that I've heard ad nauseum about Bron Bron is the whole "he was a free agent, he can go where he want" take in reference to when he went to Miami. These fans are invariably bandwagon fans who like the Heat, Cowboys (what's the NFL's new bandwagon team) and the Yankees. The fact tha they don't understand how he left is the issue makes me laugh. He hamstrung the franchise for months waivering about the decision, then decides to have the most pretentious, self rightous display of departure in the modern era of free agency. If he has just said he didn't think he could win in Cleveland due to lack of personnel, most wouldn't have faulted him. Yes x1000. I'm glad he seemed to have learned his lesson this time around. And this time he would've had a little more leeway if he wanted to do "Decision Part Deux" and didn't. Good for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 My favorite discussion point that I've heard ad nauseum about Bron Bron is the whole "he was a free agent, he can go where he want" take in reference to when he went to Miami. These fans are invariably bandwagon fans who like the Heat, Cowboys (what's the NFL's new bandwagon team) and the Yankees. The fact tha they don't understand how he left is the issue makes me laugh. He hamstrung the franchise for months waivering about the decision, then decides to have the most pretentious, self rightous display of departure in the modern era of free agency. If he has just said he didn't think he could win in Cleveland due to lack of personnel, most wouldn't have faulted him. He didn't hamstring the Cavs for months. If they didn't know he was leaving they're more inept than I thought they were. The way he left was astonishingly tone deaf, but it was also entirely predictable by anyone other than the worst kind of homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 He didn't hamstring the Cavs for months. If they didn't know he was leaving they're more inept than I thought they were. The way he left was astonishingly tone deaf, but it was also entirely predictable by anyone other than the worst kind of homer. Cleveland was never out of the discussion. Not until he said it himself live on ESPN at the location of a children's club in one of the richest areas on the East coast in response to a question from a reporter that LeBron selected himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Cleveland was never out of the discussion. Not until he said it himself live on ESPN at the location of a children's club in one of the richest areas on the East coast in response to a question from a reporter that LeBron selected himself. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had talked as far back as the Olympics about playing together. Miami made the cap space, and was the only team that could realistically afford all three. Cleveland may not technically have been out of it, but they probably had a 5% chance of keeping him. It was over, and it was obvious that it was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had talked as far back as the Olympics about playing together. Miami made the cap space, and was the only team that could realistically afford all three. Cleveland may not technically have been out of it, but they probably had a 5% chance of keeping him. It was over, and it was obvious that it was over. The Cavs could have been preemptive and made moves that would ensured he couldn't have returned but then the fanbase will turn on you. They did what they had to and shifted blame to LeBron. The NBA is set up to reward failure even more so than the NHL. The Cavs should have been good prior to LeBron's return but poor drafting has left them in dire need of LeBron's return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Only comment I have to make about Lebron James. He is not even worth a serious comparison to Jordan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Only comment I have to make about Lebron James. He is not even worth a serious comparison to Jordan. He's the better basketball player between the two. Just not the greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 He's the better basketball player between the two. Just not the greater. Athletically, no one since Shawn Kemp compares to LeBron. MJ wasn't just the most athletic player of his era but also the most competitive. LeBron is definitely the most athletic (Blake Griffen a not so close second). Size, speed, strength are unmatched in one package. He just seems to come up short in his will to win. Leaving your hometown team to fabricate an all-star roster to win it all is unbecoming at best and probably something closer to distasteful. His big game moments are equally negative as they are positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Congratulations Cleveland! A great American sports town that deserves a major championship. I'm not an NBA fan, I do hope the James brings Cleveland an NBA title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Athletically, no one since Shawn Kemp compares to LeBron. MJ wasn't just the most athletic player of his era but also the most competitive. LeBron is definitely the most athletic (Blake Griffen a not so close second). Size, speed, strength are unmatched in one package. He just seems to come up short in his will to win. Leaving your hometown team to fabricate an all-star roster to win it all is unbecoming at best and probably something closer to distasteful. His big game moments are equally negative as they are positive. But if he brings a title to Cleveland on a team he leads, all will be forgiven. No one will ever be Jordan. His compete bordered on, if not passed entirely into, psychopathic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 No one will ever be Jordan. His compete bordered on, if not passed entirely into, psychopathic. It certainly passed into psychopathic. He's one of the biggest ###### in sports history. If he weren't such a star he'd be hated by just about everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 It certainly passed into psychopathic. He's one of the biggest ###### in sports history. If he weren't such a star he'd be hated by just about everybody. His Hall of Fame Enshrinement Speech was such an unnecessary middle finger to seemingly random people. That was the first time he ever lowered himself in my view of him. Still the greatest of all time, any sport, but I just think slightly less of him now than I did then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 His Hall of Fame Enshrinement Speech was such an unnecessary middle finger to seemingly random people. That was the first time he ever lowered himself in my view of him. Still the greatest of all time, any sport, but I just think slightly less of him now than I did then. I think Gretzky is greater. Woods would've been and still may be eventually. The separation with Gretzky to the next one is incredibly large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think Gretzky is greater. Woods would've been and still may be eventually. The separation with Gretzky to the next one is incredibly large. The separation between Greztky and Orr isn't that big, especially factoring in era, IMO. Some would argue, even, that Orr was better. I would argue that Hasek was better. The separation between Jordan and the next greatest (and that really is a subjective term in the eye of the beholder) is pretty big. No one scored and won like he did. And with essentially two completely different rosters other than Scotty. Gretzky never replicated his oiler success with a different roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 The separation between Greztky and Orr isn't that big, especially factoring in era, IMO. Some would argue, even, that Orr was better. I would argue that Hasek was better. The separation between Jordan and the next greatest (and that really is a subjective term in the eye of the beholder) is pretty big. No one scored and won like he did. And with essentially two completely different rosters other than Scotty. Gretzky never replicated his oiler success with a different roster. Nobody won like Jordan did, and Jordan never won like Russell did. Nobody rebounded like Wilt (or scored, for that matter). Weaker era, but there's always a way to prop up great players. The competition Michael faced wasn't particularly impressive, and Pippen is one of the best players of all-time. MJ had an incredible supporting cast... Partially due to him making them better but not completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Nobody won like Jordan did, and Jordan never won like Russell did. Nobody rebounded like Wilt (or scored, for that matter). Weaker era, but there's always a way to prop up great players. The competition Michael faced wasn't particularly impressive, and Pippen is one of the best players of all-time. MJ had an incredible supporting cast... Partially due to him making them better but not completely. Agreed, this all comes down to the definition of greatness, which is hugely subjective (and always a good sports debate!). MJ also had Phil Jackson. Now there's some greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 MJ also had Phil Jackson. Now there's some greatness. Did he win anything without Kobe, Shaq, Michael or Scotty? Pretty easy to look good when you are rolling the ball out to multiple HOFers every game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Did he win anything without Kobe, Shaq, Michael or Scotty? Pretty easy to look good when you are rolling the ball out to multiple HOFers every game I think it's always tough to win, what was it, 11 NBA championships, though. He clearly knew how to motivate and bring guys together. We'll see how his days in NY work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I had to post this video...it's probably one of the funniest things I have seen about the situation. ENJOY! Lol. Nobody won like Jordan did, and Jordan never won like Russell did. Nobody rebounded like Wilt (or scored, for that matter). Weaker era, but there's always a way to prop up great players. The competition Michael faced wasn't particularly impressive, and Pippen is one of the best players of all-time. MJ had an incredible supporting cast... Partially due to him making them better but not completely. Competition in basketball today is nothing like it used to be in the 80's and 90's, not even close...the NBA will never be like it used to be. Michael Jordan faced incredible competition, that's what made him so great. I played basketball my entire life, used to watch it religiously...and I can hardly watch playoff games now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Competition in basketball today is nothing like it used to be in the 80's and 90's, not even close...the NBA will never be like it used to be. Michael Jordan faced incredible competition, that's what made him so great. I played basketball my entire life, used to watch it religiously...and I can hardly watch playoff games now. Oh stop. The nostalgia is blinding you. MJ's competition, specifically the shooting guards of his era, wasn't that great. LeBron's competition has been better at the top. There may not be as deep of competition but the three position has never been stronger in the NBA. The two guard spot was "meh" behind Jordan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Oh stop. The nostalgia is blinding you. MJ's competition, specifically the shooting guards of his era, wasn't that great. LeBron's competition has been better at the top. There may not be as deep of competition but the three position has never been stronger in the NBA. The two guard spot was "meh" behind Jordan. The Peak of the Stockton-Malone Jazz Hakeem's Rockets Drexler's stacked Trailblazers Robinson in his prime Barkley's Suns Shawn Kemp's Supersonics The Hardaway-Mourning-Riley Heat and the tail end of the bird-johnson co-dynasty. It's likely that there were far more HoF led teams competing against Jordan than BronBron is facing today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Meh. We'll have to wait before we can really list off the competition LeBron faced. It's easy to do it since we know how everything went and how certain guys' careers finished. KD-Westbrook's Thunder. Thibs' Bulls. Pau and Kobe's Lakers. Boston's big 3. Houston's big 3. CP3 and the Clips. Spurs big three. The Pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Meh. We'll have to wait before we can really list off the competition LeBron faced. It's easy to do it since we know how everything went and how certain guys' careers finished. KD-Westbrook's Thunder. Thibs' Bulls. Pau and Kobe's Lakers. Boston's big 3. Houston's big 3. CP3 and the Clips. Spurs big three. The Pistons. I would disagree that any of these are as good as those 90s teams, but regardless Lebron didn't win a championship during the primes of any of the bolded. It can be chaulked up to the team around in in most cases, but he, on a stacked Heat team, got beat in the finals by a far less talented Mavs team and this year by a Spurs team that is all either far less talented or way past their primes. but you are correct that it's all speculation at this point. 10 years from know we'll know more. Edited July 19, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I would disagree that any of these are as good as those 90s teams, but regardless Lebron didn't win a championship during the primes of any of the bolded. It can be chaulked up to the team around in in most cases, but he, on a stacked Heat team, got beat in the finals by a far less talented Mavs team and this year by a Spurs team that is all either far less talented or way past their primes. but you are correct that it's all speculation at this point. 10 years from know we'll know more. I'll agree with you on Houston and Detroit, but Boston's big 3 (pre-KG injury), the Lakers and the Bulls (assuming healthy Drose) definitely stack up. Maybe not the Bulls, because that team is never healthy, but if they were in tact when it mattered...Rose/Noah/Deng were always hurt at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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