thesportsbuff

Shockingly, it appears that Darcy & Co. keep their bread in the freezer. This regime's inability to find a capable back-up goaltender is embarrassing enough, but is exponentially worse when combined with the fact that they stick with guys who lose five, six, fourteen starts in a row.

The difference is, Miller is only overrated if you rate him as a Top 3 goalie in the league and expect him to single-handedly win you playoff series on a yearly basis. Enroth is overrated if you rate him as a capable back-up goaltender.

Some I agree with, some I don't. To say Ennis "shouldn't play on a team with Cup aspirations" and questioning his compete level is being a bit too critical. Often times Ennis is one of the more noticeable forwards on the ice, creating plays with his speed and his ability to twist & dodge out of battles along the boards. Yes, he will get out-muscled by players twice his size, but sometimes his speed and agility can offset that. Admittedly he's not night-in and night-out the most defensively responsible player, but Rob Ray has pointed out a few crucial plays made by Ennis on the back check already this year. He is still young, only beginning his third full NHL season. His production has been pretty consistent and after the way he finished last season between Foligno and Stafford, I don't know how you can deny his ability to play center in the NHL. He has quietly recorded 5 goals and 10 points in the first 14 games this season, which would put him on an early pace for new career highs in goals & points in an 82-game season. Dating back to February 1st 2012, Ennis has 17 goals & 39 points in his last 46 NHL games if I did my math right. That said, I do agree that he is probably best used on the third line rather than a top 6 role, moving up when necessary for injuries or what not. But I see no reason Ennis can't be a nice complimentary piece on a Stanley Cup contender, regardless of whether he's playing wing or center on the third line. You can't question his effort. More than anybody, it seems, Ennis is the one going back to the bench noticeably exhausted and on his last breath -- not because he's out of shape or isn't taking his training seriously like some have brought up with Myers, but because he is out there hustling and working his ass off every shift. I also agree that Enroth is an overrated fan favorite and will not be part of a Stanley Cup champion.

This is basically my feeling as well. To me, half the idea behind trading for O'Reilly would be hoping that he can provide a spark for Ennis and Stafford. That goes out the window if it's one of those two going back the other way.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't either. I was just tossing the idea out there. I think it'd be close to even value-wise, but that doesn't mean I'd do it.

They aren't necessarily trying to be "cheap" with him. IMO O'Reilly hasn't earned the dollars he's looking for. However, you're probably right, because Myers hasn't necessarily played up to the value of his contract either. The only spin I can put on it is that they already have Duchene, Landeskog and Stastny to build around up front; so maybe they'd be willing to devote that $$ to Myers since he'd address a team weakness and presumably give them a guy to build around on the back end. Unrelated to above post: Here is a blog post I wrote back in August about why the Sabres and O'Reilly aren't a good match. However, my stance has changed since then, largely on the grounds that Ennis wasn't the "sure thing" at center that I thought he was. After struggling considerably at times this year, I'm wondering if Ennis may be better off on the wing after all -- an option that basically blows my blog post to pieces; so don't tear me apart for my lofty pre-season expectations! Just posting because it's still kind of relevant: http://www.thesportsbuff.com/?p=1538

I was just typing the same thing when you posted. It goes off the mark a little bit when it comes to the "asking price," but I think prices will always vary from team to team depending on the assets each has available. Myers for O'Reilly would be close to fair value, though in this case, I think Myers has the upper hand and it would be Colorado who had to throw in a little sweetener. Unlike Kessel, O'Reilly is not a proven, elite goal scorer and doesn't have a significant body of work that says he'll become one; so I'm not as quick to trade Myers here as I would be for Kessel. I doubt the Sabres would do it, though.

Crosby

Putting all of Stafford's issues aside for a minute, it's nice to see the Foligno-Ennis-Stafford line back together and putting in some quality shifts the last few games. Looks like they're starting to regain some of the chemistry they had last season.

Exactly. Kessel doesn't need to be a hard-nosed, physical guy when he can snipe from pretty much anywhere on the ice. It's a skill that no other Sabre has in their arsenal. No one on our roster besides Vanek is as dangerous as Kessel.

Do you guys think they would entertain the idea of returning Grigorenko to juniors? I don't have many complaints about the kid's game, but at some point he has to start producing on the scoresheet. For the most part, he's played so-so -- not a lot of costly mistakes, but not exactly looking like an offensive dynamo either. Every so often I feel like he looks a little out of place. I think he has not entirely adjusted to the speed of the NHL yet, which is to be expected. I'm not advocating sending him down, in fact I would rather explore pretty much any other course of action, but just wondering if you guys think the idea would be on the table should a numbers game force Darcy's hand.

My only suggestion would be to check both your TWC Remote as well as your TV's remote for a "Aspect" button. It is the "#" key for me on the TWC remote. It's possible it has been changed before and you just didn't notice on regular channels.

Didn't mean to piss in everyone's cereal by implying that Kessel is roughly as good a player as Vanek is.

Well, I must have gotten lost somewhere. Nobody was saying anyone was going to re-sign with the team that traded them. Boston isn't going to re-sign Tim Thomas.

Lol, of all the people on this forum, I would have put you above the ones who resort to corny statements like that. I never promote my site on here outside of my sig, nor do I think I'm the next Darren Dreger just because I blog about the Sabres once in a while. I was just asking if you had any links because the only places I've seen Kessel trades reference are the same places you and the rest of the community would castrate users for parlaying information from. Interesting how your position has shifted from "by all accounts" to your own "informed opinion," though. I'm not "cherry picking" stats. If you want to include their rookie and sophomore years, then by all means Vanek has had the better career. I said as much in my post that you evidently didn't bother to read. But after four years of scoring 30+ goals, I think it's safe to say Kessel has developed into a better player than he was during his rookie and sophomore campaigns in Boston. So for my analysis I excluded their early years and only included the previous four seasons, none of which saw a dramatic shift in production the way that Kessel's increased after that second year. It's actually quite obviously a better way to compare the two players in terms of what type of player they are NOW, but sure, I'm cherry picking because you're wrong.

Kessel has 30 PPG the last three years. Vanek has 31. Vanek does, however, have about 10 more assists w/ the man advantage. A 10 game sample size is too small to say anyones better. Vanek will hit cold streaks and Kessel will hit hot streaks. Talk to me at the end of the season if you're using 2013's statistics in your argument. Use your head, though, man. If you're on a team that is consistently one of the worst in the league, your plus minus is going to be worse. Not saying it's not an important stat, but needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In the year prior to being traded to Toronto, Kessel was a +23 with Boston. That's the highest either player has achieved since. Anyway, enough of this argument. I'm not saying Kessel is better than Vanek. They are different players and no matter how many statistics you try to throw my way you're not going to change the fact that Kessel is a dynamic goal scorer. He has a different arsenal than Vanek does. A different skill set. Both good players. The bottom line is I would give up a struggling young defenseman for what essentially amounts to having another Vanek on the team in a heartbeat.

? The link I just posted. Nashville traded Sulzer to Florida for a conditional 7th round pick. Sulzer played for Florida. If Sulzer had re-signed with Florida, Nashville would have gotten a 7th round pick. He didn't re-sign, so Nashville got nothing. The Ehrhoff situation you mentioned was entirely different and unrelated. He was a UFA-to-be and his negotiating rights were traded for a 4th round pick (not conditional) prior to July 1st. When the Islanders realized they couldn't sign him, his rights were again traded to Buffalo for a 4th round pick, non conditional.

There is so much wrong with this post though. For one, I'm sure for Kessel's GPGA you included his first two seasons in which he didn't put up very impressive numbers. Meanwhile Vanek's sophomore year was the best of his career with 43 goals -- a number he has approached just once since. If you're comparing their entire careers, then you're right, Vanek has done more. But Kessel has clearly developed into a better player than his first two seasons reflect, so it's really kind of unfair to include those years when trying to say who the better player is "right now." If you only take into account the previous four seasons, they are basically equal: Kessel has 135 goals in 304 games since 2008-09, while Vanek has 136 goals in 302 games during that same period. (This does not include THIS season's statistics). But again, I stress that I'm not saying one is better than the other. They are DIFFERENT players with DIFFERENT styles. But they are both superstar forwards and pure goal scorers. There's a place for both of them on any team I am GM of. Lol. Oh and really, bringing plus minus into it? Toronto is in the bottom third of the league in +/- year in and year out, while Buffalo is generally around the top 15.

I did a little googling and found this (http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2011/2/25/2015092/alexander-sulzer-trade). Apparently Nashville traded Sulzer for a conditional 7th round pick -- the condition being that Sulzer re-signed with Florida. however that was prior to the new CBA of course, so not sure if anything would have changed.

Really? Any sources? I heard one guy on NHL Network bring up the idea a week or so ago, but outside of hockeybuzz and bleacher report, I've seen nothing from anyone credible that suggest this is actually the case. I would very much doubt they are shopping their offensive work horse, especially in a season in which Lupul is already out long-term, but if you have any links that are worth my time, please do share. To me, they are completely different players. Vanek plays a grittier, more physical style. Kessel has more explosive speed and a quicker, deadlier shot -- he can score from anywhere. This is not a diss on Vanek, more of a praise, but while Vanek is excellent at going to the "dirty areas" and fighting for a goal like we saw on the last-second goal last night to tie the game, Kessel (who admittedly does NOT go to the dirty areas) has a killer wrist shot that beat goaltenders from anywhere, something the Sabres frankly don't have. Vanek is a PP specialist, excellent in front of the net, has great playmaking skills, and is very capable of beating goaltenders on odd-man rushes or breakaways. But when is the last time we saw Vanek fly into the zone 1 on 3 and beat the goalie top corner from around the faceoff circles with a wicked wrist shot? It almost never happens. If you watch a Kessel highlight reel you'll know what I mean. The way he plays is so unlike any Sabre. Phil's playmaking skills are slightly under rated as well, but I'm not going to open that can of worms because it's not really important. I'm not saying either player is better, I just think Kessel adds a new element to the team. We need more than one goal scorer. 2009-10: Sabres leading scorer: Vanek with 28 goals. Kessel: 30 goals. 2010-11: Sabres leading scorer: Vanek with 32 goals. Kessel: 32 goals. 2011-12: Sabres leading scorer: Pommer with 30 goals. Kessel: 37 goals. Maybe you thought I meant points, but my point throughout this thread has been that the Sabres need a goal scorer. As for your tidbit on when a player's prime is: whatever. I'm not going to go dig up statistics to prove exactly when 'most forwards' peak, but he's 25 years old and has scored 30+ goals in four straight seasons -- including when he still played for the Bruins, proving that his stats were not just a result of the team around him or anything like that. He's not going to fall off a cliff. He's not going to dry up and blow away. He's got 10+ years left in the league and will probably score 30 or more goals in at least 7 of them, barring injury.

I'm not worried about Myers development. In terms of this trade, I don't care if he's a future star or if he maxes out as a "solid" NHL defenseman. Kessel is ALREADY a star. He is ALREADY out scoring every Buffalo Sabre on an annual basis. He is only, what, two years older than Myers, and is entering the true prime of his career. It really is a no brainer for me that i'd accept Myers for Kessel, but as others pointed out, Toronto would be the ones wanting more.

Classy

Thomas might not be playing, but it's still a contract being moved in what appears to be a legal trade. I don't know. I don't get the uproar. One team needed to take on salary, one team needed to shed salary. A deal that helps both sides -- seems like an old fashioned hockey trade to me. It's a unique situation with Thomas not actually playing, but I guess it just doesn't bother me. Excuse me while I go on a tangent here for a sec, but hypothetically if Thomas were playing for the Bruins right now in a back-up goalie role and they decided to trade him, would there still be an issue? Let's say the Islanders are trying to reach the floor, meanwhile the Bruins are trying to move the 38-year old UFA-to-be but cannot find any takers. Eventually Boston, tired of the waiting game, says "screw it, we need the cap space" and trades Tim Thomas to NYI for a conditional 7th round pick that only comes into play if Thomas re-signs with NYI. Thomas doesn't re-sign with NYI, so they never actually give up a draft pick. Is there still an issue with the trade? It would essentially be the same scenario, only difference being that NYI would actually be on the hook for Thomas' salary.

I really have no problem with it. It's very different from the Kovalchuk situation, although I see your point with the comparison. But the Kovalchuk circumvention was to keep the team's cap hit lower to afford more good players.... the NYI 'circumvention' is just to get the cap floor for 40 games and will have literally 0 effect on who else the team can/can't sign. Again, I see what you mean by the circumvention thing, but it's not like it's giving anyone an advantage. It's helping a team get to the cap floor. Big deal. Edit: As noted in the post above mine, the Bruins get a slight advantage out of this, but we'll have to wait and see whether anything comes to fruition as far as them making a move. IMO this had less to do with Boston wanting to move him than it did NYI simply needing him (the deadline for being above the cap floor is today) and I'm guessing it was Garth Snow who initiated trade talks. I don't think this is a case of Boston trading him to clear cap space to make a bigger move.

Thank you guys for being realists.