MakeSabresGrr8Again

I was referring to the idea of the "expectations". But I do agree with what you suggested.

This might be a good thread of its own.

This is why I think he's still around. So many people think he should've been fired because of that trade and that leads me to believe that it wasn't his choice to trade ROR. Also, seeing that we don't know what other offers were on the table there's no way to know if he didn't make the best of a bad situation. The offers may have been better had we paid the $7MM bonus but were they $7MM better?

There's question as to whose choice that was.

Did you forget Vesey also was added? Or would you like to forget?

I agree and will add on to this that if you look at it from a different perspective...you can't argue there has been improvement. Some people say we are a less talented team and JBotts may be worse at evaluating talent because we no longer have ROR/Kane/and Lehner. How do you replace a Conn Smythe winner, a Vezina finalist, and a player like Kane? When Botts took over, Murray's team WITH those 3 players, finished with 78pts (33wins). Botts' first year WITH those 3 players dives to the bottom and we end up with Dahlin. JBott gets rid of those 3 aforementioned players and WITHOUT them we finish with the same exact 33wins (76pts). And that's not to mention Berglund walking. We replaced Kane with Skinner which IMO was a slight upgrade. We replaced Lehner with Hutton....we could argue this one all day. We have yet to replace ROR which could arguably take quite some time to do as far as replacing all the things he brings to the game. If we even remotely upgrade our #2C position we should be a better team and all without those 3 players. IMO, it will be a position that will likely be filled through developing a player within the system because if you look around the league rosters, not many teams have a true #2C anywhere near ROR available to give up, especially at a reasonable cost without hampering the future (both theirs and ours). Then add in the pipeline. Presently I'd have to give Jbotts credit for added depth, but I'd also have to give credit to Murray for the players that are currently ready to step up such as Olofsson and Asplund and possibly others (Borgen comes to mind). All-in-all I have to give Botts a better grade at first time GM than Murray.

You forgot Pilut. I would've loved to add Moritz Seider to that group as I was very hopeful he would be available when our 2nd pick was still looking like it was going to be in the "teens". I was shocked that he went before our 1st pick, good for him. I'll probably follow his career somewhat to see how he does.

Your last paragraph is the only thing I disagree with. A lot of suggestions for the #2c have been decent to questionable 3C's. The decent ones coming from teams like TB whom are deep with talent and contenders on a regular basis. We got 5 pieces for ROR because no 1 piece was expected to fill all the voids created by losing ROR, it was expected more that replacement by committee to be a factor. Berglund was a 3rd liner who career numbers suggested a 20g scorer. Where Botts may have failed was in thinking he could drive the 2nd line even temporarily while Mitts was sheltered. Johansson might be a decent pick up but I'm done with "settling" for maybes. Would rather have a true #2C even if it's temporary. Depending on whom it is as to how long with such considerations as to age, contract term, cost, talent, etc. When these convos started we were discussing players like Schenn, Couturier, etc and ended up going on to guys like Anisimov, Johnson, Toffoli, and then further on to Johansson, Burakovsky, etc. ( throw JT Miller in there somewhere). I've always liked Mitts, but I don't think he's gonna be the revelation that some think he will be. I'm starting to think he might end up a wing. However, I am willing to give him the chance to become that 2C. I'm actually more excited about Cozens, could be the new shiny toy syndrome ,LOL. The cost of a true #2C may be hindering the process for sure and that might be the problem. Just sick of always settling. Berglund leaving really threw a wrench into things and I agree Botts should have done something sooner.

My answer would have to be Sobotka....he's been working at the right FO dot over the summer from what I hear. ?

But he is a rookie....1st season in a real locker room? or 1st year he wasn't a problem in one. Depends on which side of the fence you're on.

I saw that too, after the fact. That could be why Botts hasn't found that 2C yet, most teams are in that same situation. I went through the teams rosters and there really isn't much out there that's worth paying anything for. Some have also moved already (JT Miller, Anisimov, etc). We might just have to hope Mitts steps up. We brought over Routsalainin (sp?)....anyone know if there's any players in Europe worthwhile to take a chance on? Not named Derek Roy.

You're probably right, I didn't realize he was that old, my how time flies. I tried, something similar would likely work, just have to find the right partners and players.

I said the same thing. See my post above.

Risto to Jets Ehlers to Vegas Stastny to Sabres May have to throw in a pick(to Vegas?)

It was just an amusing thought...sorry if I ruffled your feathers.?

This makes me hope that St Louis trades ROR and we still have Sobotka so we can "win" that trade too.

That doesn't answer the question and he's not responsible for his OLDER brother. Done talking about ROR.

So, if he remained at the scene of the crime and the establishment was called Dunkin', we wouldn't be having this pathetic convo about alcoholics? He would be a divine example for Jack and Sam.

While I agree with you, only time will tell. Personally, I'll wait to see when St Louis starts losing how well things go. If everything still is fine then great. As for Lehner, again it's a wait and see. Why did Isles not re-sign him? He was Vezina candidate and signed for the same money as Varlamov ($5MM). Kane was just....Kane, no better and no worse. Agree on the proof that ROR has a drinking "problem" is unproven as fact. As far as the bolded goes.....we heard all this in Buffalo too in the early stages. Again, I'll state that I have no real issues with ROR . I just put him on a shorter pedestal than some.

I agree with most of what you said. But leave ROR on the team and take out Binnington they don't win the cup either so the point is moot You said it perfectly...a core player on a cup winner. No one player wins a cup and it takes a team(something I hope we'll have here in WNY). What I said about the bolded I absolutely stand behind and is not rubbish. Also, I'm not "hating" on ROR anywhere in my post.

He and Tarasenko pretty much disappeared half way thru the Dallas series and in the SJ series. I remember some announcers saying the keys to the game were that those two needed to step it up on many nights. Also, ROR had near 50% in the FO circle ....no where near his near 60% any other time. I concede that ROR is a very good all around player and what he did in St Louis he also did here in Buffalo. He was basically the same player he was here only difference being we didn't win the cup so he could get that recognition and he was better here in the FO circle. Even though he was personally performing well early in the season he was still on a last place team until the coaching change and Binnington came along. He made no real difference even being on a much better team. like I said, I have nothing against ROR as a player and admit that he gives his best on the ice and you know what you're gonna get on a nightly basis. There's just something about him that I just can't put my finger on that stops me from calling him a game changer. Maybe it's that you know he gives his all and you can't expect more, I don't really know what it is.

Two of them being Sabres ex-coaches.

I wouldn't mind keeping Risto around if played every game like he does against Ovi, love watching those battles.

Too bad we got rid of Nylander. Maybe we could've put a package deal together like Risto, KO, Sobotka, Nylander, and a 1st for ROR.

You would probably know better than I, but if Vesey is so bad defensively, wouldn't he be better on the top line so maybe his offensive production off-sets the D liabilty that he poses? I would think that's not possible on a lower line that can't score as often. Thoughts?? I really want Olofsson in that top spot and feel that Vesey's acquisition may have thrown a wrench into things.