GASabresIUFAN

Finally collected 8 different rankings with at least 64 players ranked. Here are the tiers so far. (EDIT: Updated) TOP 32 1 - Celebrini 2- Demidov, Levshunov, Buium, & Parekh 3 - Dickinson, Catton, Lindstrom, Silayev, Helenius & Iginla 4 - Eiserman, Yakemchuk, Sennecke & Brandsegg-Nygard 5 - Chernyshov, Connelly, Hage, Greentree, & Jiricek (large gap the next tier) 6 - Artamonov, Boisvert, Solberg, Luchanko, and Hemming 7a - Parascak and Emery (last 2 with a 1st rd grade) 7b - Sahlin Wallenius, Elick, Ritchie, Beaudoin, and Basha 33-65 8 - Surin, Mews, Pettersson, & Gridin 9 - Kiviharju, Masse, Pulkkien, & Freij 10 - Hutson, Badnicka, Howe, Eriksson, Miettinen & Stiga 11 - Vanacker, Shuravin, Jecho, Mustard, and Brunicke 12 - Kleber, and O'Reilly 13 - Galvas, Muggli, and Danford 14 - Bednarik, Skakan, and Plante (last 3 with a 2nd rd grade) 15 - Vaisanen, Marrelli & Poirier 16 - George, Zetterberg, & Letourneau

Pleasantly or un-pleasantly surprised?

When I look at the Sabres, I see a team that has 5-6 good to excellent forward prospects (not including Benson) in this order: Savoie, Kulich Östlund, Rosen, Wahlberg and Neuchev. On defense I see Johnson, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak as future NHLers. Of these 2 groups I think only Johnson and Savoie could step in and contribute to the Sabres is a meaningful way to start the season. Kulich, Rosen and Novikov may be ready by mid to late season. If you are the Sabres, how many of these guys would you make available in trade? Of the forwards, I'm inclined to move as many as 3, but if I go to 3, I'm keeping the 11th overall pick. On defense, I'd prefer to keep Johnson so that I can trade Joki. The other 3 I have no interest in trading, but can understand if someone wanted Komarov in a deal. Strbak is still much too green to be of much trade value.

Biggest issue is the 6 years remaining on his deal. What will he be at 35? 36?

For me, his outstanding performance at the U20's was a better indicator of his develop than his point totals in the SHL where he was the youngest player to receive regular PT. His SHL roster ranged from Noah at 19 to Peter Rosen at 36. Most of the roster are men 27+. At the U20s he put up 17 pts in 12 games against his peers and to lead the Swedish team in scoring. In the WJC U20 he put up 10 pts in 7 games to tie for the team lead. By comparison he has 5 pts in 9 games in the U20 the year prior and 4 in 7 in the WJC U20. We'll get a much better feel for where his future lies in NA when he plays for Rochester in the fall.

Certainly Fla’s GM wasn’t afraid when he acquired Tkachuk for Huberdeau and Weeger. Would Ottawa trade us Brady?

Florida acquired Bennett when still as RFA for a 2nd and a former 2nd rd prospect. While he might be a better 2 way player today, an acquiring team only gets one year and no control. This is why I created this thread. John wants to throw in the kitchen sink to get Bennett, while I see considerably less value. I might do our 2nd and Rosen, but nothing more for a rental. My fear is Adams is desperate to win this season. Other GMs will smell the blood in the water and demand higher prices from Adams than they would from others. We have seen this in the past with the proposed Chychrun trade. Adams was correct to say no then, but will he be so disciplined now with his job on the line?

I was going through some of the trades in the 1st rd the last couple of years in an attempt to try and gauge what type of players, picks or prospects we might receive in trade for our top tradeable assets. For example: What kind of asset can we expect in return for the 11th over pick? I really couldn't find a straight up swap involving the top 12 pick for a specific player. Most of the deals, like ours for Risto involve a package such as a 1st, a 2nd and a cap dump. What can we get for our top prospects like Rosen, Kulich or Östlund? Do Joki, Krebs or even Ryan Johnson have any trade value?

Kevyn always been known for his great pro talent evaluation skills after all. 😉 As to Greenway, outside of the 20/21 when he had 32 pts in 56 games, he’s basically been what we saw this past season; a 28 pt player who also contributes off the puck. My hope is that that makes him a 4th line player for the Sabres next fall. This is not a criticism of Greenway, but I realization that 5/6 of our top 6 is set with only a debate between Skinner and Benson for the 6th slot. With either Skinner or Benson, I want to build a scoring line around that skill player. My preference is to move Skinner to the 3rd line and invest in a very good 3rd line center. Nothing wrong with Greenway on the 3rd line and Ruff may go that route. However, as I have posted previously, if Savoie makes the team, I think I’d rather have him on the wing with Skinner and the new 3C to create a potentially very skilled 3rd scoring line. I’d then try to build a physically powerful 4th energy line centered on Greenway.

Does Adams have it in him to be as aggressive as the Panthers to re-shape and improve his club? I went and looked at the Panthers roster, only Barkov, Lundell, Ekblad and Knight are draft picks. The rest are mostly trades and free agents plus one critical waiver pickup in Forsling. Over the course of 15 months the Panthers acquired Montour and Reinhart from us plus Bennett and Tkachuk from Calgary to significantly help re-shape their team. You could argue that the Mitts trade was the first step in that direction. Possibly, the next few weeks will tell the tale. The trade market, with 30 teams now home should begin to heat up.

Yes we are over spending on defense with nothing to show for it. Don’t forget this group allowed the 7th most HDC last season. If (when?) KA re-signs Joki and Bryson we will be making the over spend worse. This group is a miss-mash of parts that don’t quite fit together into a cohesive group. They currently have two legit top 4 D in Dahlin and Power. The rest are 3rd pairing players. Mule is slated for the top 4 and maybe if he could stay healthy he’d fit there. Maybe! We certainly could use an effective physical stay at home D there. Clifton is a bottom pair player. Joki, despite top 4 pt, grades out as a 5 and his skill set doesn’t really work with Dahlin or Power. Bryam is a ball of occasionally effective raw talent. It’s why Col traded him. 4 good games followed by 12 bad ones does not a top 4 D make. The best thing KA can do for this group is move on from Joki. Avoid another longterm deal. Find a vet stay at home D to bridge until Johnson or Novikov are ready to earn the job.

I may be in the minority on this take, but I believe Savoie will make the Sabres out of camp. What impact he'll have is another question, but we really don't have a ton of internal options that are at or near NHL ready. I know some in the media have Rosen as near ready and possibly Kulich also, but their play in the AHL playoffs wasn't great and indicates to me that they aren't quite ready. Savoie's globetrotting season 1 game in Buffalo - 0 pts 6 games in Rochester - 2g, 3a 5pts Wenatchee - 11 WHL games - 11g, 13a 24 pts Moose Jaw - 23 WHL games - 19g, 28 a 47pts, plus 19 playoff games with 10g 14a 24pts Combined RS & P games in the WHL 53games 40g 55a for 95 pts. Also toss in 4 U20 games - 1a The kids was probably worn out by the time the Memorial Cup was played. I don't think he has much to gain from playing the A next season. Also the Sabres will likely need some cheap talent on the roster if KA actually swings for the fences this off-season. @dudacek You asked up thread about our center depth Savoie, Kulich, Östlund and Wahlberg, but nothing really beyond them. These are all future NHL players. The question is how high in the lineup can they go. All have different skill sets. Östlund is a playmaker and good 2 way forward. Kulich seems like a future grit goal scoring 3rd line center. Savoie is a small center with a nose for the net and Wahlberg is a power forward. It's really a nice group.

I think he is saying sign Kane and acquire a 3C, and then combine them with JJP, Quinn, TNT, Tuch, Cozens, Skinner and Benson to form the top 9. This potentially creates the foundations of a very good 4th line with Greenway and Krebs. I suggested up thread you can accomplish the same thing with a top 3C like Karlsson, promoting Savoie to the third line with Skinner and Karlsson. This then also pushes Greenway and Krebs to the 4th line and leaves money left over to sign Blueger to center the 4th line.

No question this should be the objective this summer. The better we can make the 3rd and 4th lines the harder it will be to defend the team. Since we don't have any superstar forwards, beating teams with relentless pressure through 4 capable lines should be the objective.

The more we discuss the various and infinite scenarios for this off-season, two decisions seem to be the linchpins of the offseason. 1) What to do with Skinner. There are 4 options. A) Find a trade partner, assuming Skinner is willing to be traded. Salary retention will be part of the equation, but better than the cap hit from option B. If possible this could free up about $6 mill a year for the next 3 seasons. This is the most unlikely option. B) Buyout. This would leave a cap burden for the next 6 years. It would save over 7.5 this coming season, 4.5 in 25/26, and only 2.5 in 26/27. We then be on the hook for 3 more years at 2.45 per season. Not a huge fan of this move, but is would help KA afford to make a big swing on a top6/top 2 pair skater. I also doubt TP will sign off on paying $14.67 million to Skinner not to play for us. C) Keep Skinner in the top 6. Here his poor defense is least likely to harm the team and it would best utilize his skillset. Playing him down the lineup is a mistake. Leaving him in the top 4 might allow KA to focus on building a strong 2 way 3rd line featuring Benson and Greenway with a strong 2 way center like Wennberg, Kerfoot or Bennett. This is turn might free up money to upgrade Jokiharju. D) Play Skinner on the 3rd line. If this is the plan, KA better find away to get someone like Karlsson, Duchene or Monahan to center the 3rd line or we'll be wasting Skinner's O talent and making his lack of a 2 way game more pronounced. Spending big on a 3C, then also limits how much can we spent replacing Girgensons, Robinson and KO on the 4th line. If we could some get Monahan or Karlsson, I'd be on board with this plan. but I think plan C is the most likely outcome. 2) What to do with Jokiharju? How do the Sabres really view Jokiharju's talent level? Is he a bonfide top 4 D? There are 3 options here as well. The Sabresm without Joki already have 6 D under contract for next season A) Re-sign him for a year or 2 to see if he continues to improve and becomes a bona fide top 4 D. This would lower the cap hit some on the extension and allow Joki to serve as a bridge until Novikov and or Komarov are NHL ready. AFP projects a 1 year deal at 3.328 B) Re-sign Joki to a long-term extension. Please, please Adams don't do this. We can find better stay at home D to pair with Dahlin or Power for less than the AFP projections. AFP projections his long-term deal at 3 years 4.016 C) Trade him for other assets and players. I'm hopeful that this is the path they take. Teams need R shot D and we don't need another long-term contract for a D on the books. He just isn't worth it. These two decisions will ultimately determine how much cap KA has to work with over the summer and what positions on the roster need to filled by outside talent.

Make reasonable well thought out suggestions and there should be no problem. Say we should trade our 11th overall pick for Jeannot and a 7th and .......... Speaking of the NHL draft. Two former Sabres' son are in this year's draft class. Max Plante, son of Derek, looks like a 3rd round pick. The other is Miro Satan Jr. The kid is 6'7" 190. Talk about needing time to fill out. He was 51st on Central Scouting EU list. Looks like a late round pick.

Yeah Adams is going to trade the 11th overall pick to NJ for former 2016 12th overall Michael McLeod.

I'm honestly more worried about the young D group. I kind of want Byram to anchor the 3rd pair and for KA to find a defensive RHD to play with Power. As to the forwards, adding Karlson, Lafferty and Blueger brings in much needed veteran presence, who, unlike Okposo and Girgensons, are still very productive players. Benson, JJP, Quinn all have 1-2 years of experience and given the improvement in Quinn (104 NHL games) and JJP (161 NHL games), I'm not really worried about the top 6. Only Savoie would be a rookie and he is lining up with two 10+ year veterans. Last year's team also featured 5 forwards 23 and under in Cozens, Benson, JJP, Quinn and Krebs. The youth "issue" isn't going away anytime soon with Östlund, Kulich, Wahlberg and Rosen working their way to the NHL over the next 1-3 years. I actually need to redo the pairings Dahlin Byram Power Samuelsson Johnson Clifton

The odds of Skinner being bought out are pretty slim. I won't say none because Diggs got traded by the Bills so anything can happen. Skinner is a black hole defensively, especially when he plays with lower level players. Placing him with Krebs late last season was a disaster. Skinner needs to play in the top 6 or with a very capable 3rd line center to maximize his value to the Sabres. Acquiring someone like Monahan, Duchene or Karlsson might allow Skinner to be played on the 3rd line. @Taro T I'm not sure there is enough money for the Sabres to bring in a top 6 winger and a center capable of maximizing Skinner's ability on the 3rd line, while filling the other needs on the team. I think we can accomplish much the same thing with a 3rd line of Skinner, Karlsson, and Savoie (assuming he's ready). I'd still like to see Blueger signed for the 4th line center job. Sign Blueger and you have a 4th line of Krebs, Blueger and Greenway. I wouldn't mind also looking at Sam Lafferty instead of Krebs on the 4th line. This gives us the ablility to push Greenway back into the top 9 if Savoie isn't ready. To get Karlsson, I traded Rosen plus a 2nd in 2024 & a 3rd in 2025. I used AFP for most of the contracts except I think we can re-sign UPL at 4 million (3 years) and Krebs at 1.25 (2 years). I re-signed Bryson (2 years @ 1.25); signed Blueger (2 years & 2.25) and Lafferty (2 years at 2.5) By bolstering the team with Karlson, I was forced to elevate Ryan Johnson to the 3rd pair with Clifton and pair Byram with Power. I ran this team on capfriendly and the cap hit came to 84.4 in 2024. JJP TNT Tuch Benson Cozens Quinn Skinner Karlson Savoie Lafferty Blueger Greenway (Krebs) Dahlin Samuelsson Power Byram Johnson Clifton (Bryson) UPL Levi

I looked at capfriendly and 101 players have full NMC/NTCs. Skinner's deal is not unusual at all. In fact, 221 players have some sort of trade protection or about 30% of the league. 8 teams have 9 or more with trade protection. 10 teams have 5 or more guys with full NMC/NTCs. I do agree that full NMC/NTCs are dumb, especially on long-term contracts, but there is plenty of dumb to go around in the NHL. Guys like Eric Haula and Nick Paul have full NTCs. Giving Hall an NTC likely cost us a 1st rd pick. Skinner's is keeping us from moving on from a player who needs to move on.

@dudacek Why would you give 2.7 to Trenin who is 17 pt player? Two 3rds for Jeannot? The guy had 14 pts last year on a 2.65 cap hit. These guys had 2 pts total in 14 playoff games this season. These are 2 overpayments for 4th line players. We can do better for that money and assets.

if they are morons for giving a NMC so if every other GM in the NHL. Look at every roster in the NHL. Go find a top 9 forward or a top 4 D on a veteran contract and you’ll see some type of NMC. Adams gave Hall a full NTC on a one year deal. Yzerman is one the worst offenders. According to capfriendly, nearly every player we have discussed, like Larson, Karlsson, Gourde, Jeannot and Kerfoot all have at least a M-NTC. Cirelli’s kicks in next season. Even Connor Sheary has some trade protection. The truth is Adams should have tried to move Skinner at the deadline to a team desperate for scoring. He should have retained 3 mill a season for the remainder of his deal as an inducement. Other GMs find way to move players with NTCs. It’s time for Adams to grow a pair and find a solution.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JPtGk5m_S9VuR5e7T8lb_BlilXRwJPF0V2ddQzjjpvc/edit#gid=0 I used what I thought they'd sign for based on their production and role on the Sabres and/or their current team. I still like the 100K per point rule of thumb, especially for forwards. That said, here is what an analytics group came us with. Amadio 3 year - 3.169 Blueger 2 year - 2.168 (They have him closer to your prediction than mine). I'm good with that. Bryson 2 year - 1.2 Krebs 2 year - 1.777 (I don't think so; although that would be 100K per point from last season, except he has no leverage) UPL 4 year - 4.7 or 1 year 3.3. One good year and with Levi coming up behind him, I doubt he gets a 4 year deal.

Bryson’s Q-offer is 1.9. No way the Sabres retain him at that price. He’ll be lucky to get 1.25 from us as a 7/8 D. Kreb’s offer is 832K. He has no leverage and no arbitration rights. At 17 points in 80 games last season, he likely can be kept for the Q-offer on a one year deal. If he re-ups for 2 years, he might get over a $1 mill. Kerfoot is 3.5. I think we can get Amadio and Blueger for around 3 mill each for 2-3 years. UPL should cost around 3.5 for 3 years. The question is does Adams add a 2nd pair D to play with Power. Here is how the team we are discussing would look cap wise. https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/5201642 Even in this scenario there is still room at add someone like Larsson and push Johnson back to Rochester. A move like that would reduce the available cap by 3 mill.

Archie, if we acquire Kerfoot, Joki is probably part of that deal. I’d also move on from Bryson, unless he’ll return for $1 mill. UPL is the only RFA we should keep, but I fully acknowledge that Krebs will also be re-signed. Krebs’ Qoffer is only 832k and he’s not getting much more than that. That team would have about 2.5 mill in cap space.