Randall Flagg

I will be mad if we have to replace Larsson this offseason. And yes, I know Lazar exists If we do, I'd give it a 25% chance we get a fourth line next year that doesn't blow chunks, hemorrhage shots against, and need to be relegated to 6 easy minutes per night

There is no question that we overpaid for him, and that was true the second it became apparent that the Sabres could not afford to let him leave (as we started collapsing and had so few skill players to look at) It was still the right move for a team that so desperately needs to get better, fast I have utmost confidence that this bone-dry stretch from Jeff will be long forgotten the next time the hockey matters, and the roster is reasonable, that he will be playing well and scoring again (and he's been playing well more often than not lately - the scoring always follows this)

I didnt know a thing about Cozens until we drafted him. Didn't care all that much for him through the summer and first part of the prospect tournament. By the end of the preseason I was convinced that he is at least Reinhart-caliber. With stronger skating. This is a foolish way to see things and contributes nothing to the discussion of where Cozens should be next year. But I typed it so I'm posting it His skating and two-way game, against NHLers in preseason hockey, was good enough to make me think he'd be in a good place if he made the roster next year. I don't think traditionally overwhelming parts of NHL hockey would be overwhelming to him. My biggest worry has been his hands and stickhandling, I am sure he is working on skill development in that area all year and hope it works. They are the only thing slow about his game

Yes.

Initial Panthers fans reactions for the news that he's being shopped: "Hes a lot worse than most think" (another panthers fan quoted this with a "shhhhhhhhhh") "YESSSSSSS" "Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out." "holy ****, have you seen him this season? He’s an abomination. I’ve never seen someone turn the puck over so consistently." His game has really fallen off that much? -> "Since well before his ankle injury vs the Sens. You are just paying for the name.... ... moving him helps Florida" "trust me though, you don’t want Trocheck. This guy is a polar opposite from the player he was a few years ago." "He peaked playing with Reilly Smith.since then he’s been good to invisible to negatively impacting the team. He needs a chance of scenery.he was on the decline before his injury but he looks slower since it. He used to have a great shot, that seems to have disappeared.major negatives are compete level and making stupid plays" "Trocheck has had a weird career. When he first came into the league, we expected him to be a top 9 winger. He took advantage of Bjugstad's injuries and took the 2C spot. When Barkov went down a few years ago, he was amazing. Played the 200 ft game, carried the play offensively...He was rightfully considered a 1bC in the mold of Duchene and O'Reilly. Unfortunately, his defensive play has dropped every season for the past three years. I think many thought his huge 17-18 was gonna be his career high.The thing is that Tro always looked like a player whose wheels were gonna fall off at age 30. Very intense, athletic game where he did it all himself and didn't use his brain or his teammates. He's nearly 27 now, which means he should still have something left in the tank, but we're Florida, and players tend to look better when they aren't with us.What is he now you might ask? He's playing like a useless middle 6 C you'd find on a bottom feeder. His biggest problem is that he doesn't play like a center. He doesn't use his wingers, doesn't facilitate play, doesn't play great D anymore...Maybe he'll find success somewhere as a RW to a great C like Eichel. Until then, I don't even know what the ask should be, because without him we have absolutely no Centers, and our D is already log jammed to high hell." "Oh god please. Get him out of here now. Build a whole new center core." A less doom and gloom take: "He's not as bad as most of them say, he's a low-end number two at the moment that showed he could be better. The main issue with Trocheck is that we've seen him play good responsible defensive hockey and he hasn't done any of that these past 3/4 years." "Sorry but this is a generous opinion of Tro.He makes mistakes all the time that leads to chances against and goals against. He’s part of our poor team defense.His controller got disconnected on a goal tonight leaving the NHL leading scorer untouched. He did the same thing a few games ago. Our d men may not be the best but our forwards don’t pull their weight either. And how often does he make dumb plays in the neutral zone that leads to turnovers bc he plays likes he’s a showboater in a beer league. His one same move of trying to go wide in the o zone was effective when he had speed and could shoot. He has 8 goals, that’s not good enough. Another issue is he never makes his linemates better and it’s always been a struggle for him to find chemistry on his line.Tonight he barely fought for the puck, when the play doesn’t go his way he give up, but always has the energy to argue with the refs.He’s also a core piece that would shake things up if he’s moved. It’s a losing culture in Florida and he’s part of it with his lackluster effort." "That just goes to show you what crap analytics is sometimes. Trocheck is a steaming pile of dog turd. The only thing he's driving towards is a career in Hollywood with his elite post game media scrums ." "It has nothing to do with bad luck. He's just not a very smart player and hasn't been able to adapt his play once other teams figured him out." Random comments from the Panthers' own forum: I am not celebrating that goal by Trocheck. Get off my team. Trocheck didn't deserve that. (goal) Oh look at that Trocheck takes it up turns it over and the opposing team gets a shot on goal. Nice drop pass to the other team by Trocheck Malgin and Trocheck need to be catapulted to outer space "We have to get rid of Trocheck. I know him and Huby are buddies but he's just not what he use to be. Constantly killing offensive opportunities with poor passes, no gritty edge like he once bad and even his shot is much weaker." "Vincent Trocheck needs to be the first to go along with the defense. Boneheaded, clumsy, brings absolutely nothing to our lineup. Leaves so much to be desired as a 2C.No other player in the NHL would have f*ck uped that empty netter against the Isles in game 6, yet Trocheck pulled off the near impossible and got us eliminated." "Trocheck is a net negative to this team." "Holy ****, if nobody wants to trade for Trocheck just cut his ass." "Trocheck is a shell of his former self. Sure his stats look good but he does little on the ice to actually help this team. His defense is hit or miss and he is such a black hole defensively, not seeing him skate down the ice by himself only to lose the puck our shoot it 10 feet wide would be a breath of fresh air." "Trocheck has fallen so hard so fast. Use to be a great asset just a calendar year ago or so" "Trocheck has 8 goals and sucks at everything he touches." "I love Trocheck but may be time to move on. It’s unfortunate that injury derailed his career trajectory.it’s tough because I don’t think his value is anywhere near where it could/should be." "I cant name one thing Trocheck contributes anymore.And dont say leadership cause that doesnt exist on this team at the moment." "Trocheck PATHETIC on that Draisaitl goal. A ****ing lazy, piece of **** scrub. I’m done with him." "Why is Trocheck on this team? My god get rid of him. Looks good for one week and sucks every other one." "Dadonov, Hoffman, Trocheck would be my top 3 guys to move. They're all talented, they are all the sort of players that other teams will see value in, and none of them are helping us win right now.Don't really care what we get in return, to be honest. As I mentioned in the GDT, I think I would be perfectly happy if the Panthers called up some AHL boys and told them to just go out there and play their ***** off and enjoy being in the NHL for 25 games. I'd rather watch fringe guys who care than supremely talented losers." "I really don't like Trocheck. Like, not at all" "Trocheck is a loser." "Trocheck is worthless now." "Trocheck is such a loser. Getting rid of him will be great." "trocheck????? of all ppl? no f'ing way?the fact that is only his 7th goal of the year tells a lot about what we expect from trocheck anymore" So, this is obviously a lot more than just fans being mad that he doesn't score as many points as he used to. Keep in mind that this is a SAMPLE of posts, from their own board, and so it's not like they are funneled into a main board thread to talk trash like in the first batch of quotes in this post. This is the day to day conversation about the guy from people who have watched every single shift of his over the last 4 years. I'm not saying we have to buy in and agree that he is this awful, and he does have a few defenders on their boards, but there are far fewer than I expected, and they mostly are just of the "come on guys, he's injured and still has points" variety, few are willing to say his shift-in-and-shift-out game is good and/or helpful. This also doesn't mean I wouldn't trade for him - people don't just give away currently-great 2Cs, so any guy we get will be a dice roll hoping for development, or repair. Trocheck would be a prototypical change of scenery guy, and if we get him, I'd have hope that Krueger and a new team in a hockey city could be just what he needs. But the sheer volume of raw disdain for this player is not something to be dismissed out of hand, as if they only want him to score moar points. There's something wrong with Trocheck and has been for a while, and he is not helping the Panthers with their problems, and may well be a cause of some of their problems.

Giveaways and takeaways are useless stats, and are counted differently in different buildings, and as a result have no real correlation with anything. Especially giveaways. You can find a dozen instances in a single game for any given player that are completely ambiguous as to whether they should constitute a giveaway, a takeaway, both, or neither, and people have different interpretations of every single one of them. Pile that up over time and you get completely useless stats that predict and describe nothing with any correlation The bold is incredibly dismissive of Panthers fans. They are uniform and articulate in their disdain for the player, and it's not just "hur dur he dont score points" I'd trust their takes infinitely over a Sabres fan, who hasn't watched Trocheck, using simple G/A/PTS and GV/TA to dismiss a topic that's obviously way deeper than these things

The supposed issue with Trocheck is not his goal scoring or point totals. Florida fans view his "selfish play" and "more turnovers than I ever knew a player was capable of" as a major problem keeping their season from being more successful and want him gone for it

I think almost all of our D have taken turns of at least 3-5 games of being our best D this season. The position has more or less played out as we would have hoped in the summer. I don't think McCabe has ever been our best, but he's had some games where he's been good. A lot where he's been pretty bad though. It's okay, every team has one like him, and I like him. Scandella might have been the best overall, IMO.

To me trade requests are more business than an insult. He wasn't playing and it's a contract year.

We're gonna re-sign those guys to multi year deals and sell Larry and Zemgus

He hasn't outplayed Larsson. Larsson's defensive and possession play (and numbers) are borderline elite in very tough situational usage His faceoff skills and compete (Hi Ted) are welcome on my team, of course.

Right there with ya. If he used it on Henrique I wouldn't freak out or anything, but I think he is capable of going above and beyond In fact, if I were Terry, it would be a baseline requirement that he finds a good 2C this offseason. In a vacuum that is an unfair requirement, but we aren't in a vacuum. He gutted the position, and had the rest of that offseason, then last offseason, and then this one to fix it, so if he doesn't fix it this third time, I'm done with him, because the Sabres won't make the playoffs until they have a 2nd line that can go head to head with Malkin, Matthews, Stamkos etc. night after night and at the very least break even in play and results. No more wingers or unproven kids at that spot going into a season. I would not accept that for a third season in a row when playoffs are so critical. Normally fans hit the trade boards on hf and pump their players up, arguing for why they shoould get more than other fans would offer. Panthers fans are begging for Trocheck to be taken away. They hate him, literal hate. It's one of the most jarring things i've ever read, considering my view of Vince before reading there.

My response isn't to you having those guys there in your future plan, it was to your idea that the Sabres had success playing them where they did THIS year. And my argument isn't that Cozens WILL fail, it's that you don't build a roster assuming he will succeed in that role. I'm using Mitts and Thompson as an example of us literally doing this the last two years and failing, not as evidence that Cozens will fail, like you claim. It's an illustration of the downside of that idea. You bring Cozens, Mitts, Tage into camp, along with 11-12 other guys that you would stake your livelihood on being able to comprise a competitive, playoff caliber NHL team, and you let them battle it out in camp, and if the kids are in the best 12, you keep them, and if they aren't, you send em back. That is what I'm saying.

This is literally what we did with Mitts (3C) and Tage (3/4 RW) last season and it was a disaster for both prospects and for the Sabres themselves. They were among the worst skaters in the league and didn't develop an inch at any point during the season, and both had to be sent down the FOLLOWING season That is a ridiculous development path and hurt the big club as well

Sounds good to me, lets effin goooooooo

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally doing everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again, with the same players

1.) Mojo is an awful 2C. He's a good middle six winger, which is why Krueger has moved him there. He was good at 2C for about 10 games and then his line got blasted in the ensuing months 2.) Lazar is currently manning a line that has had a nice string of games, but Lazar at 2C for a full season would be another disaster for the position for the Sabres, if you want them to do anything that season 3.) I could have made this clearer, but I mean that you should never put a player who has never had any role whatsoever into a role where you require a certain level of play. This means that of course you can allow a fresh young prospect to make the team, and see where he settles in effectively after he's proven to be a top 12 forward in your organization. But you should never take a player who hasn't shown success at the NHL level and say "you're going to be #C or #LW." This is how you kill prospects and your season simultaneously, it's why Tage and Mitts have both experienced multi-year setbacks in development, and why the Sabres have a cavernous hole at center that has kept them from making the next step

Build something around the pick to get a better hockey player (not that Henrique is terrible, but you can acquire better players through trade) that can be a longer term solution than a guy whose game could fall off at any minute (he's the kind of guy that is ripe for that sort of thing, with his skating and age (I don't think I'd consider being 30 the right side of 30 haha), every time I see him he looks like as soon as his legs go he's done, and his legs look wobbly) I love your idea of using the pick in that fashion, but I'd shop for a different player and be willing to add value to the pick to get it done

Never, ever pencil in someone who hasn't successfully played a role in the NHL, for a specific NHL role That is the root of all of the worst decisions Jason has made to date, and is the root of ZERO of his successful decisions

Absolutely

No, read it again, I think that Makar, Heiskanen, and Hughes are more explosive skaters than 99.9% of NHL defensemen, which include Dahlin, who is silky smooth with beautiful edges, but for whom explosiveness and acceleration are at the top of the list of weaknesses

This could be true, but those guys definitely are without a doubt more explosive than him and 99.9% of all other NHL D

The caliber of player that would move the needle for me as far as fixing a problem of tis team would cost a 1st, and be a rental, so I won't be surprised or upset if we don't get that at the deadline. That potential anger is reserved for not fixing obvious problems when it's actually time to do so Trading for a lesser player that could still be useful is a gesture I would appreciate though. Given standings realities I wouldn't be mad if they didn't do that now either, though for the second year in a row I'd be bummed that they weren't bought into when showing high, though probably unsustainable given roster construction, levels of play

To be fair, I haven't seen much criticism of him in this vein. It's usually about giveaways or a lack of Makar/Heiskanen/Hughes-like explosiveness

They had one. And the Leafs are given fewer power plays than most NHL teams year in and year out.