Randall Flagg

I forgot he cost that kind of money. We gave value for Frolik and didn't get any retention from them?

Here's my take on all of this. It's understood that there were no desperate Blues teams when we traded Marco, and we were unable (or refuse) to retain salary. Without knowing Jason's track record, I could accept that the Canadiens (and a GM that has widely been considered a joke by fans for years) just got a second rounder in addition to what we got, oh well. The Scandella trade, after all, wasn't a deadline deal, even though his contract expires. It was a deal to try and unclog the defensive position. For months we played with so many defensemen and so few forwards that we were going 11-7 WHILE sitting legitimate NHL defensemen, WHILE defensemen in Rochester were ALSO playing forward at the same time. This is where the problem lies, IMO, not necessarily that we got beat out in value (even though I buy that Jason mis-timed the market and should be embarrassed by this). He got stuck trading a guy that was unexpectedly one of our best D, because he didn't like what he could get for more valuable pieces like Risto, and had pushed how far he was willing to take this roster imbalance into an area where it was detrimental to the Sabres' defense at all professional levels. Fine. We finally got our D-to-forward trade. But it was for Michael Frolik. I trashed Scandella last year and was as surprised as anyone by his resurgence this year (and Joki hasn't looked the same since the trade). It is unquestionable that even with roster issues, Scandella brought this team far more than Frolik did. There is a time where a given fan base can accept that the player they get is okay defensively, but whose stick repels pucks and who cannot do anything but get crushed and lose pucks if he tries to do anything but wring them around the boards in the offensive zone. But this is the 50th Botterill forward we've brought in that can only play this game, and it is beyond tiresome watching his collection of middle six guys that are so incapable of making basic plays with the puck. Frolik is the quintessential Jason Botterill forward. Any small amount of value he brings is redundant, and he is a continuation of what the Sabres are literally the worst in the entire NHL at, quantitatively - doing things in the offensive zone to create offense. Watching MTL have the cap room we don't have with this mediocre team that allows them to get a 2nd rounder in addition to the 4th that we got, for fewer games of Scandella, is the cherry on top of the most bizarre roster construction I've ever seen. Given that the NHL media clowns (who do everything they can in their segments to absolve their WJC buddy Botts of any responsibility for this roster) have been telling us how Jason has been looking for the move we need for 10 months now, and that there may be corroborative evidence from posters who may know people, I am genuinely worried that NHL GMs don't take Jason seriously, view him as a joke that they can fleece such that it's not worth dealing with him if you're not getting YOUR stolen goods, and as such he is completely incapable of doing what he needs to do to get this team right, which almost certainly involves at least one significant trade for the right top six forward. How else can you explain that we've been looking to move defensemen since June, have only managed Scandella, have looked foolish in the wake of that, and continue to sit with too many organizational defensemen despite THREE of them changing hands with the teams we're supposed to be trading with in ONE day yesterday? I'm worried Jason buried himself and isn't being given serious trade offers that we can take because of it. No GM WANTS to enter the season with such a large group of D and such bad forward depth, do they?

I mean, is this situation not what Hamburglar exists for? If a goalie with Hutton's 2019-20 track record is starting and has a first period like this, you have to be able to put him on the bench, you just have to. I get not throwing JJ to the wolves, but the dude should be in Rochester insulating UPL while Hamburglar, who has handled NHL spot duty, deals with trying to hang onto a game to save the season. Its a mess

I guess I understand not trusting Johansson, and keeping Hutton out there. I guess. But where tf was the timeout after the third, or fourth, goal? I have more to say but I'm sleepy

The kicker for that trade with Toronto - we had just finished last and traded it for a pick the next draft that only could have been as good if Toronto would be in last place the following season, when traditionally now picks have more value than next year picks - not ten minutes later Detroit or someone pulls off a similar trade, their pick in the sixth round this year for another team's FIFTH the next. overall meaningless, but a sign of our tendency to kill ourselves a million little ways

The funny thing is we are in the same position we were in before dinner w.r.t. Toronto

Same here tbh. Genuinely hate to see a man failing at what he does to provide for his family

Montour has won a handful of those tonight, not sure if you've seen ?

Hutton has no idea where these pucks are hitting them and is taking five seconds to figure out where he put the rebounds. I've never seen anything like it. i think we can win this game but that would require Hutton to flip some switch. ***** do it man, this is our season

We take that point stuff for granted but I haven't seen it before him in my time as a Sabre fan. He does it so well and without the gaffes that sprung breakaways last year

My biggest worry. I need to see a rock solid, significant trade from Jason this offseason or I won't believe he is capable of making moves we need going forward.

Oh I'd probably add to Montour to get Trocheck too. But I wouldn't do much more than that

He was real good when I first began following them but he was definitely just a normal 2nd pairing meh guy by the time it was time to move on from him

IMO Montour is for Sabres fans what Lydman was for my dad fine, not spectacular, for long stretches on a good team, plays similarly on a bad team and it makes people fed up, then he gets traded to a better team and is viewed as fine but not spectacular again

"Tkachuk chases after the puck in the corner...Risto swampds him out on the boards....Pilut collects the puck behind the net, up to Reinhart...."

The Ottawa games have been frustrating this year. Jack scored four in our only win, which was cool, but if he didn't absolutely go off that night, we were losing that game. Then, we lost the next two in regulation, outscored 8-3. They know how to slow us down and keep us out of the slot. They displayed an ability to make Jack a non-factor. Hopefully we can break through tonight.

That's where I am too, because I really liked Vince up until this news came out (that teams were calling about him). I was full-bore on go and get him for whatever it takes, but now it's more cautious and measured. If we do get him at some point I'm definitely gonna watch a lot of games and put something together

In fact, in the Columbus game, when down 2-0, I posted during the exact moment that the tide of the game switched, that we "receieved the shift we needed" and that we were winning the game. It was a successful, grinding shift from GLO. You can just tell that it's happening. They settle down anti-Sabre chaos and create the environment for Jack and co. to pounce

Needlessly making your list of "things we need to fix" in the offseason longer than it has to be reduces the likelihood that you can complete the list and ice a good team. Our fourth line is elite defensively by any metric, against strong opponents, and is actually contributing a surprising amount offensively. For the last decade prior to last season, Sabres fourth lines would get out-shot and out-scored and out-chanced by a 65/35 ratio, and it would tax the entire lineup trying to hide the major anchor it provided. Now, we have a tool that we can use against elite players that absorbs the toughest minutes against the toughest players and still outscores their opponents while on the ice, and can give the puck to Jack's line with the other team reeling and with Sabre possession rather than forcing Jack to spend half his shift and energy going to get the puck back first, with reeling teammates and inspired opponents. This has absolutely has a positive effect on the Sabres as a whole, and their skill players (who, coincidentally (not really), for the first time in their careers (jack and sam) are actually winning all even strength battles, from advanced stats to actual goals scored. None of the players that are making this happen were brought in by Jason, and only 1 of his ~10 depth acquisitions over the last three seasons have been capable of sustaining this type of performance in this type of role, so I'm skeptical that Jason could build a line from scratch for this job that does half as well. It's hard to do, and we have it right now, so keep it. There's literally no use adding a whole new thing to the already-long list of things to do to get better this summer.

I will be mad if we have to replace Larsson this offseason. And yes, I know Lazar exists If we do, I'd give it a 25% chance we get a fourth line next year that doesn't blow chunks, hemorrhage shots against, and need to be relegated to 6 easy minutes per night

There is no question that we overpaid for him, and that was true the second it became apparent that the Sabres could not afford to let him leave (as we started collapsing and had so few skill players to look at) It was still the right move for a team that so desperately needs to get better, fast I have utmost confidence that this bone-dry stretch from Jeff will be long forgotten the next time the hockey matters, and the roster is reasonable, that he will be playing well and scoring again (and he's been playing well more often than not lately - the scoring always follows this)

I didnt know a thing about Cozens until we drafted him. Didn't care all that much for him through the summer and first part of the prospect tournament. By the end of the preseason I was convinced that he is at least Reinhart-caliber. With stronger skating. This is a foolish way to see things and contributes nothing to the discussion of where Cozens should be next year. But I typed it so I'm posting it His skating and two-way game, against NHLers in preseason hockey, was good enough to make me think he'd be in a good place if he made the roster next year. I don't think traditionally overwhelming parts of NHL hockey would be overwhelming to him. My biggest worry has been his hands and stickhandling, I am sure he is working on skill development in that area all year and hope it works. They are the only thing slow about his game

Yes.

Initial Panthers fans reactions for the news that he's being shopped: "Hes a lot worse than most think" (another panthers fan quoted this with a "shhhhhhhhhh") "YESSSSSSS" "Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out." "holy ****, have you seen him this season? He’s an abomination. I’ve never seen someone turn the puck over so consistently." His game has really fallen off that much? -> "Since well before his ankle injury vs the Sens. You are just paying for the name.... ... moving him helps Florida" "trust me though, you don’t want Trocheck. This guy is a polar opposite from the player he was a few years ago." "He peaked playing with Reilly Smith.since then he’s been good to invisible to negatively impacting the team. He needs a chance of scenery.he was on the decline before his injury but he looks slower since it. He used to have a great shot, that seems to have disappeared.major negatives are compete level and making stupid plays" "Trocheck has had a weird career. When he first came into the league, we expected him to be a top 9 winger. He took advantage of Bjugstad's injuries and took the 2C spot. When Barkov went down a few years ago, he was amazing. Played the 200 ft game, carried the play offensively...He was rightfully considered a 1bC in the mold of Duchene and O'Reilly. Unfortunately, his defensive play has dropped every season for the past three years. I think many thought his huge 17-18 was gonna be his career high.The thing is that Tro always looked like a player whose wheels were gonna fall off at age 30. Very intense, athletic game where he did it all himself and didn't use his brain or his teammates. He's nearly 27 now, which means he should still have something left in the tank, but we're Florida, and players tend to look better when they aren't with us.What is he now you might ask? He's playing like a useless middle 6 C you'd find on a bottom feeder. His biggest problem is that he doesn't play like a center. He doesn't use his wingers, doesn't facilitate play, doesn't play great D anymore...Maybe he'll find success somewhere as a RW to a great C like Eichel. Until then, I don't even know what the ask should be, because without him we have absolutely no Centers, and our D is already log jammed to high hell." "Oh god please. Get him out of here now. Build a whole new center core." A less doom and gloom take: "He's not as bad as most of them say, he's a low-end number two at the moment that showed he could be better. The main issue with Trocheck is that we've seen him play good responsible defensive hockey and he hasn't done any of that these past 3/4 years." "Sorry but this is a generous opinion of Tro.He makes mistakes all the time that leads to chances against and goals against. He’s part of our poor team defense.His controller got disconnected on a goal tonight leaving the NHL leading scorer untouched. He did the same thing a few games ago. Our d men may not be the best but our forwards don’t pull their weight either. And how often does he make dumb plays in the neutral zone that leads to turnovers bc he plays likes he’s a showboater in a beer league. His one same move of trying to go wide in the o zone was effective when he had speed and could shoot. He has 8 goals, that’s not good enough. Another issue is he never makes his linemates better and it’s always been a struggle for him to find chemistry on his line.Tonight he barely fought for the puck, when the play doesn’t go his way he give up, but always has the energy to argue with the refs.He’s also a core piece that would shake things up if he’s moved. It’s a losing culture in Florida and he’s part of it with his lackluster effort." "That just goes to show you what crap analytics is sometimes. Trocheck is a steaming pile of dog turd. The only thing he's driving towards is a career in Hollywood with his elite post game media scrums ." "It has nothing to do with bad luck. He's just not a very smart player and hasn't been able to adapt his play once other teams figured him out." Random comments from the Panthers' own forum: I am not celebrating that goal by Trocheck. Get off my team. Trocheck didn't deserve that. (goal) Oh look at that Trocheck takes it up turns it over and the opposing team gets a shot on goal. Nice drop pass to the other team by Trocheck Malgin and Trocheck need to be catapulted to outer space "We have to get rid of Trocheck. I know him and Huby are buddies but he's just not what he use to be. Constantly killing offensive opportunities with poor passes, no gritty edge like he once bad and even his shot is much weaker." "Vincent Trocheck needs to be the first to go along with the defense. Boneheaded, clumsy, brings absolutely nothing to our lineup. Leaves so much to be desired as a 2C.No other player in the NHL would have f*ck uped that empty netter against the Isles in game 6, yet Trocheck pulled off the near impossible and got us eliminated." "Trocheck is a net negative to this team." "Holy ****, if nobody wants to trade for Trocheck just cut his ass." "Trocheck is a shell of his former self. Sure his stats look good but he does little on the ice to actually help this team. His defense is hit or miss and he is such a black hole defensively, not seeing him skate down the ice by himself only to lose the puck our shoot it 10 feet wide would be a breath of fresh air." "Trocheck has fallen so hard so fast. Use to be a great asset just a calendar year ago or so" "Trocheck has 8 goals and sucks at everything he touches." "I love Trocheck but may be time to move on. It’s unfortunate that injury derailed his career trajectory.it’s tough because I don’t think his value is anywhere near where it could/should be." "I cant name one thing Trocheck contributes anymore.And dont say leadership cause that doesnt exist on this team at the moment." "Trocheck PATHETIC on that Draisaitl goal. A ****ing lazy, piece of **** scrub. I’m done with him." "Why is Trocheck on this team? My god get rid of him. Looks good for one week and sucks every other one." "Dadonov, Hoffman, Trocheck would be my top 3 guys to move. They're all talented, they are all the sort of players that other teams will see value in, and none of them are helping us win right now.Don't really care what we get in return, to be honest. As I mentioned in the GDT, I think I would be perfectly happy if the Panthers called up some AHL boys and told them to just go out there and play their ***** off and enjoy being in the NHL for 25 games. I'd rather watch fringe guys who care than supremely talented losers." "I really don't like Trocheck. Like, not at all" "Trocheck is a loser." "Trocheck is worthless now." "Trocheck is such a loser. Getting rid of him will be great." "trocheck????? of all ppl? no f'ing way?the fact that is only his 7th goal of the year tells a lot about what we expect from trocheck anymore" So, this is obviously a lot more than just fans being mad that he doesn't score as many points as he used to. Keep in mind that this is a SAMPLE of posts, from their own board, and so it's not like they are funneled into a main board thread to talk trash like in the first batch of quotes in this post. This is the day to day conversation about the guy from people who have watched every single shift of his over the last 4 years. I'm not saying we have to buy in and agree that he is this awful, and he does have a few defenders on their boards, but there are far fewer than I expected, and they mostly are just of the "come on guys, he's injured and still has points" variety, few are willing to say his shift-in-and-shift-out game is good and/or helpful. This also doesn't mean I wouldn't trade for him - people don't just give away currently-great 2Cs, so any guy we get will be a dice roll hoping for development, or repair. Trocheck would be a prototypical change of scenery guy, and if we get him, I'd have hope that Krueger and a new team in a hockey city could be just what he needs. But the sheer volume of raw disdain for this player is not something to be dismissed out of hand, as if they only want him to score moar points. There's something wrong with Trocheck and has been for a while, and he is not helping the Panthers with their problems, and may well be a cause of some of their problems.