LGR4GM

No, you've been tossing out "okay kevyn" type of comments for quite a bit. Didn't tell you to stop either, just said it was a weak counter argument.

Oh no, Kevyn Adams had the same thought I did!?! Whatever shall I do!? I am sure he has, my question isn't did I have the same thought as adams, it is how right is that thought. Again, it isn't about being right for me, it is about getting it right. Saying we need to replace 27g from JJ Peterka is not getting it right.

I am not saying that we shouldn't add more to the offense or anything like that. I am saying I think anyone simply saying we have to replace "27g" because of JJ Peterka isn't looking at all the nuances of things. It is an oversimplified way of discussing it and I think the real number is more like 10-15g.

This is getting old Thorny. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you throw out this little childish barb that they are in line with or in agreement with or as dumb as Kevyn Adams. I don't see it like kev and your dismissive tone here is kinda how you've been around here for months. If ppl don't see it your way, they are dumb kevyn adams lovers. It's weak sauce.

Peterka is good at one thing we should be concerned about, it isn't shooting. Peterka was very good at bringing the puck up ice into the offensive zone. It is probably a contributing factor to his 2nd assist totals.

You using averages that don't account for games played in the years you are talking about is a major issue in this analysis. But yea, I don't worry about the playmaking part of things. I think between the defense and the rest of the forwards Norris will be fine and Tage already has improved his playmaking over the years. Cozens was SO BAD defensively that any playmaking we lose with him gone is made up for by having even an average defensive forward.

I don't need him to pass, I need him to get to 24goals.

They only have 8 forwards coming to dev camp... yeesh.

JJ Peterka had 23 secondary assists. He had empty calorie assists, because he played with Tage Thompson most of the year. In fact Peterka had only 4 more primary assists than Zach Benson. What I am getting at is I don't think JJs assists are making up the difference here. There is no massive monday stretching at all. In fact I even showed my work. Josh Norris 1.1g/60, Dylan Cozens 0.9g/60. Further Cozens has eclipsed your goal average exactly 2 times. Once when he had 18 (wow) and then the outlier year where he shot 14.7% which is almost 5% over his career average. You wanna dismiss my arguments that is fine, but you wanna talk monday morning stretching, well you just did the same thing by averaging in a 31g year for a guy who hasn't even made it to 20g since. I used his 11g because that is how many Cozens contributed to Buffalo this past season. Norris has 3 20g seasons and you are right, he gets injured which is an issue. However, I think the shoulder injury which robbed him of his 23yr old season and lingered into his 24yr old season before being corrected is now corrected and I do have some faith he can get 70games in. If he does that, getting 24g (seems pretty low when he had 20 last year in 56 games) is very reasonable. Again, I showed my work so you little dismissive comment is notwithstanding. Cozens verse Norris in assists is something interesting but that wasn't the OG point. It was that regurgitated line "we have to replace 27g from Peterka!" when in reality we probably have to replace 10g and in reality reality we need to drastically reduce goals against.

Adams plan is whatever Ruff wants, just like it was whatever Granato wanted, and whatever Krueger wanted.

It's year 6, Kevyn ain't got no plan.

Didn't say you were mad.

So should we just not talk about the changes or look at them at all?

It's affordable for 1 year until Andersson wants 8 or 9 million a year. I just don't see the appeal when we need a top 6 player, that's where I would use assets.

Im not that interested in Andersson now

They want a slightly used Byram instead? It's like new after a delta sonic wash and detail.

Did the success of McLeod and the addition of Ruff open the door to give Ventura and Karmanos mor cache in the overall conversations around the team? I keep wondering if McLeod being good really opened up Adams to the idea that analytics does work and it doesn't have to be all his internal feels.

Well, since last June we have seen what? Cozens (who was atrocious) out for Norris and Bernard-Docker (adv Norris) Peterka (who was not great defensively) out for Kesselring and Doan (adv Peterka) Clifton out for Timmins So are we better without Cozens, Peterka, Clifton and bringing in Kesselring, Doan, Norris, Bernard-Docker, and Timmins

I really like this Voronkov idea. How do we get that guy?

Interestingly, Kesselring played 701toi with Ian Cole at 5v5. He managed a 53.53cf%, 52.85xgf%, and 58.37hdcf% Without him (so everyone else) he played 608toi with 54.35cf%, 55.64xgf%, and 54.31hdcf% Me thinks we do not value Kesselring as much as we probably should. Or Columbus was a lot worse than Utah which I am not sure I believe.

I wonder if Benson got top line work because Ruff got fed up with Peterka's d-zone play.

I like Bedkowski and EP being higher on him gives me some hope as I find that they are really detailed oriented when it comes to how they build their stuff. That said, unless he works hard on making sure he can take pucks away and either skate or pass them out of his own zone, aka facilitate zone retrievals, he's not gonna make it very far. He's got some skill though, so if we let him sit for a couple of years, might really have a hard nosed defender at the end.

Better yet... trade Byram for Provorov's rights and Voronkov and a 2026 2nd. Make it on the condition Prov signs a 5yr 7mil contract extension. It is less than he would get with UFA but maybe if you get exclusive rights to sign him he feels really wanted and would want to come play with Voronkov and Dahlin. I don't love Provorov tbh. He gets hard minutes and is just okayish at them. He's got a ton of turnover as well but they aren't tracked well. Provorov played 356 minutes with Werenski and was at 52.77% corsi and 51.63%xGF. Ivan played 1178 minutes with everyone else and was 46.38cf% and 44.84xgf% at 5v5. These numbers are very similar to Byram away from Dahlin. Why not just pay Byram 7x5yrs and keep him with Dahlin. He is the same thing with probably more upside.

100% agree. Without a goalie fix, not sure any of the rest of this matters at all. Ottawa and Montreal jumped over us because they got better goaltending.

Are we? Dylan Cozens shot at 7.9% last year and Josh Norris shoots at 18.1% for his career average. Jiri Kulich shot at 11.2 but only played 62 games. Zach Benson shot at 8.3% I get it, Peterka's 27g is something ppl are worried about replacing but flipping Cozens for Norris probably replaces half of them straight up. Norris getting 24g compared to Cozens 11 doesn't seem far fetched. That leaves about 13g between Kulich, Benson, Quinn, and Doan. And that's if we are that worried about last years goal total. I hate agreeing with Adams, but I am just not convinced this team actually has lost that much scoring.