LastPommerFan
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Posts posted by LastPommerFan
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No, you have not, nor has anyone in this conversation. I may have fallen victim to a straw man when I read goering's words as typed by you. Obviously, your point, while reminiscent of a Nazi Leader in Nuremberg, is not congruent with his philosophy. So I change my challenge. If you're willing to engage for a bit, with a promise that we both make the assumption that the other is coming from a position of best intentions, i'd like to walk through Just War Theory, and see if we meet the criteria. My intuition is that we might.Who said anything about "silencing the liberals?"
Does disagreement with moral equivalence or arguing that pacifism in the face of violent fascism will end up costing more blood and treasure constitute silencing anyone?
Of course a decision to commence a military engagement -- and, critically, maintain it for generations -- deserves due diligence. Has anyone said otherwise?
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Well, I thought a sigh was a pretty mild response to a "Gotcha! You talk just like a Nazi!" series of posts.
I went to lengths to explain the reasoning behind the thought. The Nazi reference was just bonus points. You sound exactly like his explanation of how democracies can control the will of the people through fear. Your position is hardly out of mainstream, but deserves due dilligence, and I don't think that silencing the liberals is the way to find the best final solution to this problem.
(That will be the last one, I promise.)
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Sigh.
And the moral equivalence train rolls merrily along.
Tell me: do you think militant Islam wants to coexist peacefully with the rest of the world?
Did you not post earlier in this very thread that military action is necessary?
I think military action will be necessary to ensure the expansion of secular liberal pluralism throughout humanity.
I don't think that erring on the side of peace will result in the dire consequences you declare. I think there is room for a voice that says, "violence will not solve violence". I think there is a value in telling our soldiers that there are real human beings over there, not just bands of monsters. I think more Americans will die each year for the next 10 years if we invade Syria, than if we don't.
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Correct.
This is an incredibly dangerous statement to be making. It leaves no room for moderating forces. It leaves no room for a change in course. It leaves little room for pragmatism. It is also a near direct translation of a Hermann Goering quote.
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My intention was not to troll. It was simply to point out that questioning loyalties isn't really a logical or productive approach here, especially when the questioner doesn't seem to appreciate who the real bad guys are.
I have argued, pretty consistently in this thread and in the politics thread, that we are in a war that has been declared on us by a deadly and savage enemy that is not interested in peace and prosperity -- and that in order to win this war, we first need to stop kidding ourselves, recognize that we are in a war and who the enemy is.
There are plenty of people in this country who think the way PAFan apparently does -- i.e. we're just as bad as they are, it's just a few bad apples on both sides causing these problems, we need to reform ourselves before we can tell others how to act, it isn't really a war, climate change is the real threat, there are nefarious war profiteers pushing our side for a military engagement, etc.
I think that school of thought is self-delusional (albeit understandable as it likely emanates from the desire to avoid the terrible price of war) and, more importantly, dangerous, because the longer we wait to do what needs to be done, the more costly it will be.
I've made all of these points before and likely will do so again when my resolve to stay out of this thread weakens again.
If I can paraphrase this, we need to accept the idea that we are under attack and we need to be brought to understand that pacifism will expose the country to additional danger.
Is that what you're saying?
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How many people here like Alexander Semin?
Love Semin. So fluid.
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The Kenyan catholic doctors association recently had six Tetanus vaccinations from around Kenya tested and they all tested positive for the HCB antigen which is an anti fertility antigen.
Holy . link?
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I'm scheduled for surgery on Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving. They discovered that my ligaments are stretched and torn, and my bones are starting to leave their intended positions, thus I'm literally getting screwed. And plated. The broken bone isn't really even an issue.
For the first time in my life, and I realize it's probably worthy of an eye roll from most people, I won't be spending Thanksgiving with my family. I simply cannot get home. No way I'm flying with pressure and my leg down. Even the short hop to Detroit.
I'm lucky enough that d4rk has said he'll take care of me, even if I can't get to Buffalo to spend turkey day with his family, who've graciously opened their doors to my drugged up, crippled a$$.
Also, I had no idea that a broken leg hurt this much. Holy crap, swelling. The ED put the splint on too tight and I almost lost my toes/nerves. I put that sucker down to try to crutch around and it's an incredible amount of pain. I can barely get through work and teaching without wondering if I will pass out. It's hard to get work done and I'm falling behind again, which just adds to the depression.
I'm so done with this.
If you end up not being able to even get in a car, let me know, I'll have turkey, trimmings, veggies, pie etc delivered to your place in Rochester. If I find out that you went without on thanksgiving, I will block you both and habor that hatred and disappointment forever.
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Supposedly, 5 Syrian refugees were busted with stolen trying to get into the US through Honduras. Who mentioned them coming in through the southern border?
http://wtvr.com/2015/11/18/honduras-detains-five-syrians-over-fake-passports/
These are not refugees, but good work by the Hondurans to ID the fake passports.
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Doug Flutie had a terrible day:
http://m.wcvb.com/news/doug-fluties-parents-die-on-same-day/36526436
My heart goes out to him. I can't even imagine.
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Watching Kim Pegula go on continuous dates with every Bruin, Leaf, and Bettman
With Kim just slightly out of view. just enough so he's certain she's there, but not enough to actually catch a glimpse.
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Bonus game: describe the specific circle of hell that Smell will find himself in after his execution.
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You don't find many Monets in magazine racks. I appreciate your thoughts on that one aspect of the article. The Lilies imagery is way cool. You did find it interesting enough to comment on. Come on, give me that.
My interest isn't the internal religious debate. That's for the experts, our good friend included. My interest, in the politics of Paris thread, is in the policy implications when leaders make the same authority error you point out. The magazine points out non-Muslims lecturing Muslims with regard to what they stand for. I object to this. I think you do, too. I obsrve our leadership, see it doing the same thing, and worry the policy implications. I'll send your admonition to The White House.
My point is that if these men practiced an ancient folk religion (Tamils) or Christianity (Lord's Resistance Army) the result would be similar. When they say "we do this because we Islam commands us to", they are simply wrong.
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Saint-Denis is where I was an exchange student. This whole thing is getting surreal for me.
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Awesome ... must read. Definitely a side of the aisle piece.
http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/17/16-of-the-worst-ways-to-respond-to-isis-paris-attack/
Particularly interesting ... What ISIS is and wants ... in its words.
Not for President Obama fans.
Still, a great read. Read the satirical Facebook post in light of our back and forth.
The viewpoint authorizes a few dozen people to interpret the holy text of a 1500 year old religion and claim absolute authority. And the "you are not true muslims" line isn't a "regressive left" position, it's the position of an actual muslim who you interact with on a regular basis. I don't find this piece to be particularly interesting. I find it to be an attempt to paint Monet's Lilies with an industrial size roller brush.
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I largely agree even if I'm not convinced at all that we have the ability to properly vet these refugees. Why would ISIS need to bother with smuggling in terrorists disguised as refugees when it's much easier to just walk across our southern border.
Even easier just to land at JFK with a Turkish passport.
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Turning the Refugees back, or leaving them for Turkey (Full NATO member) to deal with alone, is a huge mistake with massively negative ramifications. These people are our hope. These are the people who chose, at risk of death and the cost of everything they couldn't carry on their backs to NOT join Daesh. These are our friends.
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I think step one is for the western world to unequivocally admit that secular liberalism is superior to theocracy in all ways and is an ideal worth defending. That Bill Maher is an ass-hole, but he is at least in part correct about what theocracy is: a tool for the few to control the many. Liberalism (capitalized here only because it starts the sentence) is the idea that all the tools that are used by the few to control the many are bad. Islam is not inherently bad. Theocracy is inherently bad. Militarized religion is a scourge upon our humanity. It has been for 1000 years.
Then we need to take a hard look at the key underlying conditions that drive a population to secular democracy, and decide if we can promote those conditions, whether through the sword or the plowshare.
I believe the above to be an absolute truth. I worry that we are incapable, in our current state, of accepting and announcing the inherent evil of theocracy. I worry that the Left, in it's worship of pluralism, will strive to allow theocracy as a potentially acceptable government to be "tolerated". I worry that the right, in it's pursuit of the Christian Ideal undermines the fight against theocracy by deploying legislation that can only be justified by religious rule.
But more than that, I worry that the middle, with their jobs and families and mortgages and health struggles, will find it easier to occasionally deal with the grief of these violent losses of life than to take a stand against both and actually change the world.
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Or not?
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You're aware of the nuclear agreement the Great Grifter signed with North Korea in 1994, yes? The one that was supposed to prevent them from going nuclear -- just like the one Obama signed with Iran?
Democracies have short memories.
GWB and Colin Powell explicitly stated that they were going to pick up where WJC left off. That the Agreed Framework was a good solution.
Then 9/11 happened and they created the Mythical "Axis of Evil" and further isolate North Korea, daring them to abandon the Framework. 2 years later, NK restarts it's reactor that Clinton got shut down, 4 years after that, they have the bomb.
Being strong may be part of the solution, being heavy handed probably isn't.
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Well, one seething cauldron with nukes is a bad situation, but it's much less bad than 2, especially when #2 is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism, has "death to America" as its semi-official catchphrase and is run by fundamentalist lunatics.
As for what I would do about Pakistan, the only thing that anyone can really do at this point is remember which president let it happen, internalize the fact that the democrats have heads implanted in rectums when it comes to untrustworthy nations getting nukes and factor it into voting decisions.
So, in light of North Korea's test in 2006, do we all vote Green Party? Can we get Ross Perot to run again?
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I spoke with some members of the family I lived with when I was in Paris this morning. They are French-Armenian. They have an interesting viewpoint in all of this, as they have Family still in Armenia. Armenia is a Christian enclave sandwiched between Georgia, Turkey, Iran, and Azerbaijan. Their instincts were to cut off the refugees until a security solution can be found, but they recognized that they, themselves, immigrated to France to escape the Soviets. They are very conflicted.
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Well, we freaking need to care because they want to kill us in large numbers, and the bozo in the White House has just handed them the keys to the nuclear Cadillac.
What would you do about the Hostile Islamic Theocracy that already has the Bomb? A non-Nuclear Islamic world became a fantasy in 1998.
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A new Ottoman empire, essentially.
essentially, but I don't think the region needs to be politically unified, Europe certainly wasn't during their enlightenment.
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I'm racking my brain trying to think of new solutions to this problem (on the assumption that all previous solutions have failed, your mileage may very) and I keep coming back to the idea of putting together an honest ME Marshall Plan (Marshall plan would have been $130B in today Dollars, I propose that ME has further to go than post war Europe, so $300B).
These regions desperately need liberalism. Liberalism is a direct result of education, economics, and art. It is never a result of war, but war may be necessary to implement the things that do drive liberalism. I would support a US contingent to an international effort only AFTER funds were escrowed to deliver the goods.
(I am using liberalism in the sense opposed to feudalism, monarchy, and theocracy, not modern American Liberalism, which is not completely congruent with the former.)
Total Foreign Aid Spending the last several years has been around $25B, so we're not messing around here.
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Why? France has a rich history as our ally. Good chance our country wouldn't exist without her.
Ask anyone you know who's graduated from West Point in the last 25 years what they think about France.
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