7+6=13
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Posts posted by 7+6=13
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I hope Cal Peterson regrets not coming here in the worst way.
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I'd flip the crap out of that tire to the right of the one Risto is lifting.
- rasmrist@evander9kane dump it to my corner everytime then
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Has anyone come across a more realistic O’Reilly proposal floating around out there than the St. Louis one?
I’m talking Robert Thomas, Vince Dunn and a first?
These are the type of trades I think work.
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Still no has shown me a deal for ROR that ends up with the Sabres as a better team this coming season.
Lets say you trade ROR for a top 4 and a top 6 LW. Possible? Probably not, but lets say possible. So you have filled two important holes, but created a huge hole in the middle. So how do you fill it? Sign 32 year old Paul Stastny to fill that role until Casey is ready for top 6 minutes.
Alternative. Keep ROR and sign Neal and a D like Hickey or DeHaan.
With respect I think you're way too focused on being good this coming season. I understand the want of course but I don't think it's realistic. We aren't going to be good next season. There's absolutely no question we are rebuilding. It's simple for me - either ROR brings me young opportunities to entice me or I keep him.
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That doesn't seem worth our time either. I would be fine packaging Girgensons as part of a deal for a single roster player coming back, but we really can't be ditching guys like him for picks that may not become roster players for another 3-4 years, if at all.
I agree. Girgensons doesn't produce but he doesn't give you bad minutes.
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ROR and I don't see how it's close. He has more on ice and trade value. I could see a scenario that in 3 years Reino could be the better asset if ROR slows down and Reino gets much better.
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Note that Virtanen is a bad player, Olli Juolevi had a dreadful post-draft season and isn't looked upon nearly as highly as when he was drafted, and 7OA is around where we got noted stud Nylander.
ROR needs to return more certainty than that.
It's a risk for sure but it's one I'm willing to take. I like O'Reilly and I respect the multiple things he does for us. I also recognize he isn't a leader and that we don't have anyone on the team his age to be a leader so it will come from the young players. That takes time and I don't think I'm going to like a 30 year old slower ROR with reduced minutes and reduced points (40-50), 3rd line center, with no leadership skills at 7.5 Mil - when my youngsters are ready to take the team over.
I don't think the Sabres are turned around with Dahlin and Mittelstadt - they are turning around. We're not good and losing ROR makes us worse today for sure. I just don't think ROR does enough for me while I'm not good and I'd rather have futures.
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Would you trade ROR for the 7th overall pick and say Jake Virtanen or Olli Juolevi?
This is precisely the type of trade I'm looking for.
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I think we should keep the talent we have and add more.
I certainly understand what you're saying but if ROR can get me 2 pieces and a chance at a 3rd - then I'd accept that. We don't have any other good players in his age bracket except Okposo, who's obviously even older. For me it's just more about bad timing than an indictment on ROR and his ability. I really like him as a player but I think too much of the roster has to be filled out with prospects to add talent through free agency. I do not want to try and contend with ROR and Okposo - I'd rather wait until the timing is right.
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We just see it differently. Dahlin may not be a total stud as a rookie but he'll be better than Gorges, Antipin, Beaulieu, or whomever he ends up replacing. Sure losing Kane is a blow but there's always a chance Mittelstadt or somebody else replaces the majority his production. I also expect increased production from Eichel, Reinhart, and Okposo to gelp offset his departure.
I don't see how you can say Mittelstadt isn't part of the core yet also say he now makes O'Reilly expendable. It's both or neither and if you don't think he's part of the core yet, then I don't see how you can think O'Reilly is expendable yet. That's putting the cart before the horse.
I don't think we see it as differently as you think. I can tell you're a sincere person and I think you're optimistic for all the right reasons. I just can't call someone who hasn't played a core player nor someone who has played 6 games. Anyone who thinks they won't be should get mentally evaluated or they have the ability to predict catastrophic injuries - because that's about all that's going to stop these two teenagers from being good.
They are not core players today, IMO - you think they are. That's ok, we debated that out and that's where we both stand.
We don't just need "Mittelstadt or somebody else" to replace Kane's production - we need Kane's production and Mittelstadt to produce at Kane's rate. We do not have that. I don't see how you can call that a wash and say that's ok. We're a terribly unproductive offensive team. We need all that you say (Eichel, Reino, Okposo increase) and much much more.
So here's my point that's getting lost (my fault). I'm not saying Mittelstadt makes ROR expendable. I'm saying (my take) that Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Guhle, and a combo of a couple of other players in the system will be what makes this become good or not. I believe it will take two full seasons and then the 3rd year for all of those components to come together. ROR will be 30 that season and I'd rather have another young prospect, pick and/or young NHL player on the team instead of him.
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If we don't have a core at this point, we're completely ######. Fortunately (for my own sanity) I think we do have a core in Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart, and Mittelstadt (pbuh), coupled with Ristolainen and Dahlin on defense and hopefully Ullmark in net but we'll have to wait and see on him.
I expect the Sabres to contend for a playoff spot this season (2018-2019) but if next season ends up being another turd you can always trade O'Reilly next offseason. At that point his earnings drop to just $6 million per season and we can wait until July 2nd after his $5 million bonus is paid to entice any cheapskate teams that love the value of a good player whose actual dollars paid are way less than his cap hit. O'Reilly is a model of consistency so I'd still expect strong defensive play coupled with 55-60 points even if the Sabres stink, so there will still be interest in him around the league. No need to trade him now while his eventual replacement (Mittelstadt) hasn't even played a full season.
I'd brace for disappointment if you expect us to be in contention for the playoffs. We lost one of our best scorers, it's possible the goaltender riddle hasn't been solved and we'll be heavily depending on teenagers. That's not a team poised to gain 30 points in the standings.
You can't call Mittelstadt and Dahlin in the core. Of course they are the hope for a core in the future - that's why ROR, imo is expendable. I guess you say it yourself by saying "I think we have a core".
Our future looks quite amazing but it's just that - the future.
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Exactly. Build on the core we have. The problem with our team is our depth players and need for more scoring on second/third lines. Upgrade our goaltending. Trading ROR and Risto doesn't make sense to me unless it's for an unbelievable deal that I don't envision.
We don't have a core...yet. I agree with you on Risto - he shouldn't go anywhere. For me it's simple, by the time we have a proper core ROR will be 30. It's a decision of whether a 30 year old ROR has more value than a combination of a high pick, prospect, or young NHL players projection.
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Amen and amen.
Before trading O'Reilly or Ristolainen, the team really needs to consider how those roles are going to be filled.
And I don't want any more stinking draft picks or prospects.
If I'm JBOT - I wouldn't try to win with Eichel, ROR, young players that should be very good, and what's currently on this roster. There's too much to try and fix through free agency - I wouldn't repeat that disaster. Once the roster is mostly filled out - hit on free agency and go push for a cup.
I think we as fans have to be ready for the real possibility that we are in year one of a rebuild. For me Risto shouldn't go anywhere but I'm moving ROR if I can get a high draft pick, prospect and/or a young NHL player.
We should be ready to win in Dahlin and Mittelstadts' 3rd season. My core and leaders are now Eichel, Risto, Mitts and Dahlin. My team is filled out with a combo of Reinhardt, Guhle, possibly ERod, a few veterans/FA's and our current prospects in the system.
Then my high pick and prospect from the ROR trade are what's coming up behind them - along with the current draft picks in Rochester that don't make the club this year.
This gives me a couple years to find my goalie and we're ready.
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Or he really is a locker room cancer.
I don't think a competent GM can decide that with two of the highest rated prospects outside of the NHL ready to step in the lineup and one of the best young ones already here.
For what it's worth I really want them to keep ROR. Unless there are things going on behind closed doors in which I say get the best return that will help us today.
He may not be the leader the team needs him to be but I can't wrap my head around ROR being a cancer.
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I think Pominville could help Casey's development - I'd give that a go on the 3rd line.
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I think we make the playoffs next year
Then again, I'm a sucker for optimism.
I appreciate that but you've got to agree the odds of it being next year vs 2-3 years are in my favor.
I think there's not just reason for optimism but it's likely we are going to be a very good team. When you have Eichel, Mittelstadt and Dahlin - you're going to be very good but it doesn't happen quickly. Not when there's a void at goaltending and no veteran leadership of any kind. It's going to take time.
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No way. Over half the damn teams in this league make the playoffs every year.
So. You think what then, we make the playoffs next season? Or the next? Then we disagree by 1-2 years vs 2-3. We've got a lot of work to do.
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IF O'Reilly gets traded, I think it'll tell us a lot about where Botterill thinks the team is at. Given there's no compelling reason to move him (such as entering the last year of his contract), if Botterill trades him for futures, to me that means he thinks the team won't compete for 3 years.
I'm not sure how you're defining compete. We've got to be 2-3 years away from being a playoff team. I think it'll tell us more of what he thinks of a 29-30 year old O'Reilly if he moves him.
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I definitely want Pouliot and Pominville as Sabres next year. I also want to resign Reinhart.
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I just started watching Bosch on Amazon - I'm hooked.
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If I lived in Buffalo I would have season tickets every year. I have had center ice for as long as it's been offered and I still watch most games.
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With all due respect for taking the time to create this chart - we would have to know how the "top six, bottom six" were chosen. Was it top 6/bottom 6 in team scoring or top 6/bottom 6 pairing? For example for much of the year Pominville was not in the top 6 but he landed 6th in points and 4th in scoring.
Depending on where he was slotted on the chart will determine which number he effected. If he was slotted in our top 6 - our top 6 was too high and it lowered our bottom 6 totals.
Even still, the point is taken. There's no doubt our wingers have to produce much more than they have.
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Something that was quite noticeable about the really good teams in the playoffs and especially in game one is these teams really get the puck to the middle of the offensive zone. A lot of times it results in nothing or even a turnover but it's the focus.
I've always thought keeping possession in your zone was important but I'm learning this is not correct. These two teams don't worry about possession nearly as much as getting the puck out of the corners and to the middle. I'd really like to see the Sabres make this an emphasis.
Pick John Tavares' Next Team -- Update -- JT to Leafs
in The Aud Club
Posted
We're way further than 2-3 good players away from playoff contention - especially if you're swapping a good player (ROR) for another. Our differential was -80. We're 30% higher in negative differential then the best teams differential (+56). Obviously differential isn't everything but IMO we're years away from a playoff team. There's much to fix that must and will come from the many prospects we have coming.
For me, the good news is, when we are a playoff team we should be in the cup conversation soon after. All the young talent should be ready relatively together in terms of time line - so I believe we'll catapult quickly in 2-3 years.