mjd1001

Your explanation is as good as any. A few games, a part of a season, it makes sense, but a couple years of being better on the road? I really am at a loss. You have the last change advantage at home. You are used to the arena, the ice quality, the boards, the locker room. You more often than not have not traveled as much. there are so many little things that add up to, over the LONG run, being better at home. As you said, maybe its a matchup thing. Maybe they play worse against other teams playing a 'road style game'. There is something similar going on with the Leafs. They do poorly against 'bad' teams (Buffalo, Ottawa, Chicago, Columbus), so the fanbase in TO thinks the team doesn't get up for those games. When really if you break down the games, its not the quality of the opponent the Leafs play bad agains...it is the STYLE. If Toronto can easily outskate a team, they usually win. But when they play a young team (a worse team) but one that has raw talent AND forces the Leafs to put in a lot of effort in to outskate/out 'raw' talent them, they don't like that. When Toronto plays a buttoned up/veteran team that 'plays the right way' but maybe has a handful of guys who lost a step, Toronto does well. But put them against many high flying/fast skating, even undisciplined 'bad' teams....that is where they have a problem. The Sabres may have something like that going on but with the style of game teams play on the road.

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As per this message board, this fan base is so divided I have no idea what he could do where you would not lose half the fan base. -It seems like there are some people, just by this thread, who want Zemgus gone and wish it happened yesterday. Yet others (like myself) not only don't want him gone, but would be happy to see him here for another year. -Coaching and GM....some (it seems like the majority at times) are seething that a coaching change hasn't been made yet. Yet others have said they think the issue is other than Granato and don't want him gone...and those posts have more than a few 'likes' to them. Because of the lack of success of this franchise, opinions on what to do are so divided I have no idea what can, or 'can't' be done without alienating a good portion of the fanbase.

its always easy to point out a stat like I am now after a win and after he scores..but for those who say he brings nothing offensively.....I have said BEFORE this discussion about Zemgus that the best way to evaluate bottom of the roster playrs (3rd and 4th liners) is goals per 60. They get less ice time, so goals per 60 es tells you how much they produce for every minute (or in this case 60 minutes they are on the ice.) THIS year, he is now 6th on the entire team. Who is better? Just Quinn, Peterka, Thompson, Tuch, and Skinner. He is better than everyone else. Historically for his career, he is 4th liner (should rank 10th-12th) on the team but he usually is higher. He missed most of the year a few seasons before, but every other going back to the Covid year besides that he was ranked 8th (or tied for 8th) in goals per 60 on the team. Not only does he rank higher than a typical 4th liner on this team, but he is consistently higher than an 'average' 4th liner around the league (this year, and pretty much every other year). So yeah, he doesn't get assists as much. But he scores MORE than a typical 4th liner, he skates well, is a great forchecker, does his job (I'll say this again, on the 4th line is job is LESS to produce offense and MORE to keep the other team in their own zone while your top lines are getting rest), and hes a good (not great) penalty killer (even when he is on the ice PK when a goal is allowed, I RARELY see him as the one out of position). I have been saying this before this thread even started...but I am totally at a loss for words why people want him gone so badly and think it will help the team by subtraction with him gone. It doesn't make sense on almost any level. He's not carrying the team to victories, that is not what I'm saying here...so if he IS gone the team won't all of a sudden start losing a ton more games...but as a 4th liner, he is GOOD. The eye test shows it, the stats show it.

Cozens has the skillset to be a star. Hockey IQ and awareness, not quite there yet.

Yes, that is how I do watch the team. If I have nothing going on, they are about 2 hours of entertainment. If I have some stuff to do, often times the game is still on and its 'background noise' while I work around the house or work on the computer. I only really get slightly upset if I see a game that they lose and is low scoring. Yes, I want the team to win, get better, make the playoffs, etc. But i'm MORE invested in each individual game than I am in the entire season as a whole...because that is exactly how I view them...2 hours of nightly entertainment. Not much more. I think the fanbase is split into two categories...and many of the arguments on this forum between posters is based on that. Some demand changes because of the long playoff drought, the desire for the team to go deep into the playoffs. We all want that, but a portion of the fanbase, well, that is why you watch sports, to win the championship. Others are able to look at things more positively even when the team is losing, because they are a night-to-night fan, rather than a whole-franchise/season-to-season fan.

He is shooting just as much as he did the last 2 seasons combined, just his shooting percentage the last 2 seasons was almost 50% higher than it is this year. If his shooting percentage was equal to the previous 2 years, he'd be on pace for about 45 goals this year. Hope it IS the wrist, and that is something that can get better.

Serious question...what 'type' of talent plays better at home than on the road?

I see where you are coming from at least. Dahlin, Power (whether we want it or not) and Samuelson are going to get their huge minutes. Jokiharju usually gets above average minutes. The top 4 (at least the top 3) on this team WILL get those minutes because of what they invested in them, and they are still young so they need experience. That leaves less minutes for the bottom 3 (or bottom 2, depending on Jokiharju). So, all things being equal, I'd LOVE a good, veterain, top minute (and likely top dollar) guy. But when balancing budget and ice time, the balance between how much use you will get out of a good forward (Mitts) or a good D-man....well, spending $6-$7m on each, you might get more value out of that forward with the way the minutes are split up on this blueline. I think the going-rate for Mitts will be at last $6m per season, more than likely even higher...and as 'good' as he is, I don't see him as a difference maker. But if he is an important part of the team...yeah, those decisions have to be made.

Isn't Tanev in his mid 30's, older than Johnson? Not sure I'll have to look it up. I'd be ok with bringing in an older vet on a 1 year deal. Ideally, a 27-29 year old, REAL top 4 guy with 400-500+ games NHL experience would be perfect, but no-one wants to give up those guys. But if you can find an older Vet willing to take 1-2 years, I'll all for having one on the roster. Johnson hasn't been great, but I don't think he has been as bad as many say.

I agree on Krebs. I know some players take a few years to show what they really are. I know Krebs stats are similar to, or maybe even better than other players at his age (Thompson, maybe Mitts). But after the initial feeling of being happy the Sabres got a top prospect/first round pick at the time of the trade, I really haven't seen anything from him that stands out at all. He seems slow. He rarely wins a loose puck battle. Several times on the backcheck his lack of speed just makes him 1/2-1 step away from getting to the eventual goal scorer. I hear on this forum he has great vision and hockey sense, but I just don't see it get used in the games at all. So like usual, I am hoping he step up his game. But on a game-to-game basis, I see nothing from him (yet) that makes me think he is anything more than a borderline AHL/NHL guy in the long term. Show me a speed burst even if it doesn't result in a goal. Go into the corner every once in a while against a vet and take the puck away (once a game maybe). Hustle back and be the reason a 2-on-1 turns into a 2-on-2 against and a scoring chance is taken away. Make a good pass once or twice a game that leads to a scoring chance, even if the guy you passed it to doesn't convert it. I am not even seeing many of those 'flashes'.

I'm in 95+% agreement with you. Johnson is young, we saw last game what CAN happen when a young guy has a bad game. Its probably good they are bringing him on slowly. Power? He SHOULD be very good/great in the long run, but most got a little too high on him last year, he needs time, he needs experience. The rest of the group is at least NHL level. Maybe they are on a 2nd pair when they should be 3rd pair guys....but that is better than in the past when we had borderline AHL/NHL guys playing major minutes. One more legit top 4 addition to this team (even if trading top prospects for him are needed) along with more experience for everyone (yes, even Dahlin is young), and this squad could be very good in the near future.

My intent of the post was to say you aren't getting $2.5m worth of performance/games out of him (especially because he does miss games due to injury), but I don't think there is an obvious improvement for him. This team had room under the cap. If you could sign/find a guy who was going to be better for sure, then sign him. But, If you can't find a guy better (and that is my main point) I don't get rid of Zemgus to replace him with an 'equal part' to save $1m per year while this team is under the cap. Again, if there IS a guy out there for $2.5m who is better than him who is willing to take that 4th line role on this team then sure. But who is that guy that they turned away? I haven't even heard rumors of who it might be....so with that being said, Give me Zemgus for whatever you are paying him (as long as its a 1 year deal) than just putting some other replacement level player in there.

I agree with a lot of what you said. As mentioned earlier, some fans are just at the end of the rope with wanting this team to make the playoffs. I get that. I am there at some times. But I have found out that I am happier as a fan, happier as a person when I view the team as entertainment for 2 hours a night and not get too caught up on when are they going to win the cup. I don't think this team needs wholesale changes. I for sure don't think it needs to be blown up. The single biggest issue I think this team has is how the forwards play in their own zone, my target has been Cozens. And in the past month or two, they have gotten drastically better. Its a small sample size, but to me that is 40% of the problem with this team. I'm hopeful it has been fixed. Even in their losses lately, you can't watch the games with your own eyes and not notice the forwards are making a LOT less mistakes than they were for the first part of the season. The majority of the other issue is scoring. Again, mostly Tage and Cozens, but I really think this roster is not as good scoring as they were last year, but they are better than they have been this year. I believe in UPL as a legit NHL starter. I don't get myself tied up in a knot over the performance of the 4th line...and I think Okposo is done after this year anyway..and I like Girgensons play as a 4th liner. This is the youngest D-corp in the league and D-men take time to learn the game, they are going to get better with games played and I don't think they have been awful this year (Despite the Johnson and Johnson game yesterday which may have been the worst game by a D-pair I have ever seen) So what changes would I make? Get a top 2-3 level D-man. That is the hard part, but that would be my #1 priority. Change how the Power play executes...how I'm not sure..but what I am sure is that it isn't working so do something different (different assistant coach?) Bring in one more forward who you think can get you 20 goals a year AND is a full speed ahead, pest, maybe drops the gloves without having his face messed up guy. That and the top 2-3 d-man are hard to find, have to trade some prospects to get it, go ahead. But Blow it up? Change the coach and GM? For me to think that it is nothing more than an emotional reaction. Do the above and I'm 100% happy going into next season. I like this thread because I sometimes personally have a hard time with the level of vitriol on this forum for heads to roll. Based on this teams history over the past decade it might be the right amount of hate, but for me its just too much at times. I sometimes get criticized for 'not seeing what is really going on with this team' because I tend to support some players and coaches more than others want, but that is jut some of us trying to find some positiive things.

Without retyping my entire other post....yes. less chances allowed, slightly less goals scored with a lot less goals allowed....so yes.

How positive or negative we are as fans also has to do with what type of fans of the team we are. There are some people that want to win. Do what it takes to be one of the top teams. Someone isn't doing the job, make a change. Over a decade without playoffs means that more drastic changes have to be made. A lot (most) of us are like that. Then there are others, who view the Sabres as just entertainment. (I used to be the above, now I've become one of these.) I WANT them to win of course, but just entertain me. Score some goals. Win more than you lose. Thats all I want now. Honestly I sometimes like the discussion about the team on these forums more than liking the games, and I'm OK with that. Some people don't understand this, and that is OK....but for me (and a FEW others), we can see the positives more becasue we have lower expectations. We WANT a cup, we WANT them to be the best team in the league, but we don't EXPECT that, we just expect to be entertained. Sometimes I think I might get MORE frustrated than those with higher expectations..I think...I have lower expecations, and you STILL can't do that...but in the end, they lose, I post on here, but I look forward to the next game.

ON the Adams vs Beane thing....Maybe the moves they make, not only are the run by Pegula, but they are dependant on where they are/think they are with the team. They both "cleaned out the old core". Once the Bills had Allen, I'm going to 'assume' they knew he would be good a little sooner than we did (they see him in practice, they see how he quickly he picks up on things, etc" So once they had Allen, Beane was given the green light to start taking those risks...... On the SABRES however, Pegula was burned many times with 'false starts". Erhoff and Leino would get to be more than just a 'playoff team'. Eichel and Reinhart would turn the team around right away. Trading futures for Leino and Kane would put them on the right path....there are many other things. It could just be that Pegula is WILLING to allow adams to make those changes, but he wants to see (or be convinced) that this team is READY for major moves before he allows it.

It is a small sample size, but since the turn of the calendar to 2024, I think the forwards have gotten a LOT better in this regard. Like a night and day difference. From one of the worst teams I have ever seen, to recently playing above average in their own end. Now if only they could have Tage catch fire like he did last year scoring.... If you want to be positive, there are things there to be positive about, just you have to look through the 'fog of the results' of the season to see them. Goaltending looks really good. Overall Defensive play (D-men and forwards in their own zone) has taken a drastic turn up recently...and they are allowing less goals and shots overall compared to last year. Quinn (when he plays) looks really good. Peterka looks REALLY good. Tuch has taken a step back due to injuries, but even with those injuries he has shown/proven he is more of a 20-25 (maybe 30) goal scorer for you than a guy who will only get in the teens. To be a playoff team/force in the league, I think this team is a single LEGIT top 4 D-man (not a guy you have to convnice you is a top 4 guy, but a legit one), a season without major injury problems, and one more player developing into a 'feared' nhl level goal scorer that isn't there yet. That along with every single game the young D-corp geting more experience is all I think this team may need. I don't think you need to 'blow up the roster', you don't need to fire Adams and the entire coaching staff...etc. MAYBE trading some prospects for a top 9 guy who is 'hard to pay against' would help too, but there is a lot here to work with.

If your job is to do other things then it certainly can be. If your job is to forecheck, keep the puck in other zone, then it sure can be. If you are tying up players on the other team on the boards while linemates control he puck, then it can be. If you are told that you are to go out there, tire out the other team, chase them around with a relentless forcheck, while your team's goal scorers are getting a breather on the bench, it can be. I guess the only reason it is not 'playing the right way' is if that is one of the things that you want to use to support your argument. Why would you just 'waive' a player to send a message, until you find out just what his value is on the open market anyway?

BINGO! and that is exactly what you are doing also by responding this way. I said a nickname was dumb, and I explained clearly I felt that way because that player already has a nickame that is widely used. It rubs you that wrong way that I said that? You are and Hank are SO thin skinned that you continue this converstation? I moved on from in a week ago, the only reason I keep on posting things like this is because of people bringining it up again after I left it behind. Telling someone that while you are doing it yourself....CLASSIC example of what you are doing by continuing to bring it up. And I said I don't like a nickanme for a player pushed by a poster (or a couple) when the player already has a widely used nickname. First time I saw it on here, I legit didn't know who the heck was being talked about until I opened the thread and read a bit. For you to call me out is a joke, I have had a lot more people respond to things I said and called them a LOT worse things than what I said. This is why this forum at times, and SOME posts can be a joke. I am generally more civil to other posters than they are to me many, MANY times, and the one time I express that I legit think something is there that I don't like I get called out on it? That is a joke, as is the back and forth about this topic that for some reason I am choosing to engage in.

I'm sorry I don't evaluate how good a player is based on their statistics for a half season of play... And certainly I don't cherry pick statistics to only support my argument. That worked maybe in the 1980s when you were building your team in strat-o-matic hockey, but that's not the way player evaluation should work If we moved on from a player every single time some of their stats go down for just a portion of one particular season... And not actually watching them play and see they are still effective at skating, at forchecking, and don't cause problems in your own zone.... Well, then you'd have a lot worse of a team than you have now. But hey... If picking a whipping boy... And hammering away on him and hammering away at any single person who responds to you who disagrees makes you feel better, I guess have at it.

Playoff teams aren't looking primarily to increase their scoring from their fourth line. Playoff teams are looking for a fourth liner that will play hard... That will kill penalties... And that will not hurt them when they're on the ice. Basically... Go out there and eat up 8 to 12 minutes a game without allowing any goals... While our top two lines can get a breather on the bench. In a lot of cases, that is exactly what playoff teams are looking for. I don't get how some people can look at this in such a linear way. If your roster is top heavy and you rely on your top 6 to 8 guys to score... Your bottom guys don't have to score that much. They have to be part of a fourth line unit that doesn't allow a lot of goals to be scored against you.... They can pin the other team in their own zone... While the guys you rely on to score are getting that rest on the bench. On my fourth line... I will gladly give up five goals per year that someone can score.... If they play hard and they play well in most other aspects of the game and they aren't the liability causing me to make up even more than five goals per year the other way.

He skates hard. He's probably the second best forchecker on the team next to Tuch. And his scoring per 60 minutes... Which is the way that you evaluate someone with limited ice time... Isn't that much different than a typical fourth liner around the league. He's also probably in your top five penalty killing in terms of forwards over his career. He hasn't really lost a step in skating. Is he worth 2.5 million per year? No, but you're not up against the cap. For the role he serves. He's perfectly fine. I really do not understand the hate that some people have for him and the rush to get him off of the team. You're not changing this team's fortunes by changing up a fourth line Winger, certainly not one who actually doesn't cause you major problems day in and day out. Personally, as long as the team isn't up against the salary cap, I'd like him back next year if you want to still be here.

13 goals gets them to be a positive in goal differential. I posted this in a previous thread, but every team that was a positive in the goal differential in the east has made the playoffs the past couple of years, and every team that has been a negative in goal differential has missed the playoffs In the west it's not 100% but it's usually one team away from being 100%. So yeah, we don't know where those 13 goals could be sprinkled around but... If history is any guide, being positive and goal differential put you in the playoffs or right on the edge of it so it definitely could make the difference.

Ok, another way to look at this....with the conclusion that MOST of this team is better than last year except for Cozens and Tage. -Last year Cozens and Tage combined accounted for 0.95 goals per game. This year .49 (.0.46 less per game) -The REST of the team besides (Tage and Cozens) last year accounted for 2.62 goals per game. This year 2.44 (only 0.18 less). Account for Tuch, Quinn, and Skinner being some of your top goal producers and the games they missed due to injury compared to last year, and that may account for that entire difference. Defense? -In terms of Goals allowed per game, the team this year is allowing 3.07 vs 3.62 last year (0.55 per game) So, besides Tage and Cozens, the team has taken a slight hit in offense, but is doing better on defense by a greater margin. OVERALL the entire team (besides those 2 guys) is doing BETTER than last year in terms of goals scored versus goals allowed. Also The goals per game allowed are down quite a bit, but its not just goaltending. They are also allowing less shots per game than last year. UPL is allowing less behind him, but in part that is because the goalies are facing less shots. Either way, they are allowing a lot less goals than last year. A common complaint is the team has focused on defense but at the expense of offense. True on the surface, but again, the vast majority of that offensive shortfall is just 2 players. The rest of the team as a whole has made big strides defensively without really hurting their offensive game much. How about the Power Play? -Cozens and Tage LAST year accounted for goals scored on 9.3% of Power plays with between just those 2. This year? 3.8% (a 5.3% drop) The team as a whole besides those two went from 14.1% to 10.8%, (a 3.3% drop). Cozens and Tage combined account for a greater drop in PP production than the rest of the team combined. -PK. Last year 73%. The team has lost 3.3% on the power play, but has made up 6.8% on the PK. Net-net an improvement on the roster as a whole minus Tage and Cozens In MOST metrics (including the big ones listed above) this team is performing better in many ways compared to last year besides Cozens and Tage. That doesn't mean the team doesn't have flaws, or didn't last year. But something to think about. Fix those 2 guys and you likely have a better team than that you had last year. Maybe Granato needs to go, after all he does coach the entire team INCLUDING Tage and Cozens so he is responsible for them too. But when you look at the numbers....again, Net-Net the team is better in goals scored/goals allowed overall besides those 2 guys. Blowing the whole team up, Firing Granato and Adams....If that is what it takes to get Tage and Cozens going again then fine. But I don't think its the best idea overall. This team needs SERIOUS surgery with a Scalpel, doesn't need the sledgehammer to the head in light of all the info above.