Neo

Mr. Joe .... "dumb or lying" is my opinion, true. Opinion is a portion of my post, true. No quarrel with your assessment. I'd welcome a third alternative to dumb or lying. I hope you sense sincerity. You see, i'm trapped in the "dumb or lying" space. She's not been charged with any crimes, in case you confuse me with those making that allegation. I am getting a "greatest Catholic University" education in snippets.

Eleven, you just captured every response to the story I had. Further to PA .... I'd guess "to keep client out of trouble" ...

By the way, is that because NGC 5457 is more than 6,000 light years away?

I've never considered the plural of supernova .... i dig it ... I enjoy YOURS. When the joke fell flat, i freaked a little ....

Where do you stand on Bigfoot and Nessie?

You blinded me with science. You got me with technology ...

Thoughtful, thoughtful ....

Argue with the Nobel Laureates, not me .... I was AWARE of that ..... hence, my joke! I know who you are! Did you think I was being serious?!!

Well, not all ... http://humanevents.com/2013/12/16/intelligent-design-theories-gaining-steam-in-scientific-circles/ (no less a source than Human Events, holy schmoly ... ) .. And maybe not seven Nobel Laureates ... http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/seven-nobel-laureates-in-science-who-either-supported-intelligent-design-or-attacked-darwinian-evolution/ Other than THEM, though ... all. I'd pay attention to that Thanes guy if his post count was higher.

I had to google "young earth creationism".

Truly from a lack of knowledge perspective, and not to make a point --- Doesn't intelligent design allow for or include evolution? Am I inconsistent when I say I like the intelligent design hypothesis (thank you, Whiskey) and I believe both in australopithecus and the in the existence of God? Educate me!

I never said the "V" word, nope. Never did. I just like the idea of parents/students having that choice without the funding stumbling block. Imagine, choice and quality education for lower income families.

Insight

How about taxpayer money going to lower income families so they can choose private schools? I'm in!

I hope so, NS. Good thing to point out. We all have our "I'd have done it this way or that" points of view, but I'm glad it's happening. Whatever follows the Castros, I want to be there when it arrives. Private schools work and need more funding! icrackmeup.

Mr. JOE! A Jesuit education. I'm envious.

None that I'm aware of. Further, the private, religious, schools I'm aware of teach evolution as well as creationism. Calling Timon and St Joe's grads ....

We are in agreement. However, you don't have to go back much further than 1950, and perhaps no further at all, to find a point where Mississippi's view would have been the national view. I remember the "blacks don't have the intellectual capacity to be quarterbacks" talk in the 1960s, in Buffalo. Mississippi didn't have an NFL team. I'm not a race historian. The example came to mind quickly. There may be better ones.

My quarrel isn't with what the "should list" includes. We agree. My quarrel is with what the "should list" excludes. Maybe it's me but I was reading exclusion ("because it's settled science") at the expense of inclusion ("present 'em all and let the bright debate") in the conversation of a uniform, national, curriculum. If your "should" list includes the earth's age at billions of years, here here. Mine does, too, in the context of "evidence". My "should" list also includes multiple religious beliefs to the contrary, of course in the context of "belief". Regarding subjective beliefs - when assembling a public school curriculum in Mississippi in 1950, many educators would not have considered "the black man doesn't have the intellectual capacity of the white man" as subjective. I'm a science guy. Excluding alternative views is, for me, hubris. Lastly, society does pay for public education. It gets the funds from the pockets of parents. Oh, sure, some taxpayers aren't parents at the moment, but they were the children of parents at the time of their education. Some smoothing of timelines takes place. Sending my money to Albany for the purpose of educating my child comes with my same input as does me sending my money directly to the bursar's office. My limited capacity prevents me from being clearer. For your consideration, only!

Mr. Menace - I am occasionally obtuse (in the accurate characterization of another poster) with an obscure reference. I love your post. Imagine your education if some curriculum list necessarily excluded the wonderful diversity of what you were taught. I find my own wormholes and burrow (self-reflection). Reference-Orwell and orthodoxy. “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.” George Orwell.

Please report to the Ministry of Love, Room 101, so your re-education can commence.

Am I the only "evolution" guy who believes parents, and not me, get to choose what their kids are taught? My issue's not with anyone's belief, and not with this particular topic, but instead with choice and who makes it. Where is tolerance and choice? I must've evolved with a missing "we're right, you're wrong, therefore you "should"" gene ... PS .... you should all be taught that the second amendment is a fact, capitalism trumps socialism, taxes are evil and depress economic activity, and republicans govern better than democrats. Absurd? Disagree? Have different standards? Lucky I'm here to choose your curriculum! Should kids be taught art? Whose? History? From what point of view? Music? Which? Classical or rap or both? Parents are the consumers of K - 12 education. Only they "should" choose. If they do such a collectively bad job, and if they're part of the citizenry that chooses the "should", how is the "should" better? Elitists? Can I test on to the "should" team? Is there a "should" list I can evaluate? Is it chosen by consensus and do creationists get a vote? Orthodoxy stifles, as comfortable as it is. That "should" be taught, no? The smug, self assured, intolerance of it all ... My first rant ... I'm beaming.

Thank you for the GHWB confession. I'd have to view the Federal baseline before I'd comment. Lastly, to the extent any of our back and forth addresses people not having a choice (especially for economic reasons) I believe you'd find me in your corner. Choice for all, indeed, with better education for those who can't find it. I'm a fiscal conservative who believes very strongly in liberty and choice. I do not live in a cave.

See my reply to True Blue. I'd teach the science. I'd also teach that there are religious points of view. If a private religious school chose to teach both, I'm fine with that. That leaves the private school that does NOT teach the science. Here's my real ignorance: does that happen at St Joe's? It's one thing to argue public vs private and funding, choice, etc. it's another thing to tell a private school what its curriculum has to be. Are we there? Awesome. Mr Whiskey - funny! Mr. Weave - agreed.

I think we're going to agree. I haven't looked at Kansas or Texas. Is this a "creation vs Big Bang" topic? If it is, I'd be most impressed with a school explaining there are two points of view, but teaching the science. For fun - I'm an Intelligent Design person. That phrase helped me reconcile unshakeable beliefs at odds with one another. I believe in a primordial ooze and a greater power.