Doan > Peterka?

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Benson and Doan may be playing higher in the lineup than they should, but they are not the problem on this team.  Doan is performing on any line.   Benson seems to have cooled off after a good start.  His playing on the first line and having 0 goals at this point in the season is a problem.  Benson does not have an NHL shot.  Hate to say it, he is a good player, but the fact that he is one of the teams better options to play on the first line is a problem.  

I look at teams like Utah and the Ducks.  Even Montreal and Philly.   Why are they better?  

Is there really much difference in the talent on the rosters of these teams?   I think not. 

The Sabres just give up too many goals and it is not all on the goalies.   The team makes way too many mistakes in their own end.  

I think the Utah coach is getting all there is out of his young and improving roster.  Joel Quenneville is getting everything out of the surprising Ducks roster.  Martin St Louis is getting everything out of a middling Habs roster.  

Lindy Ruff is not pushing the right buttons.  He seems just as defeated as the players.   You can tell by the Sabre Power Play that this coaching staff is not good enough.  

But the big problem is goals against. Like the TNT guys said, and Biz has been very negative about this team,  the Sabre take plays off and they take short cuts, and they get burned by it over and over again. 

The TNT cast pointed put that none of the defense other than Dahlin will even hit the other team.  No forwards have any fear playing deep in the Sabres zone.   Lundqvist was trying to be nice but said it clearly - they can't figure out how to defend because its hard and too many of their players don't want to play that way. 

Sure, they have a lot of talent but they don't play the game the right way.  

They can fire Ruff but they will likely just hire another coach that is in lock-step with Adams, the creator of a poorly constructed and mentally weak team.  

I agree with most of this, I still have some differences though.

The goals allowed.

I think a lot actually IS on the goalies. The defense isn't perfect, they aren't one of the best in the league, but over the past 2 years I still maintain I am seeing the same things:  Goalies allowing more 'weak' goals than they should.  Yeah, I get forwards have 'nhl shots' and can pick corners, but when a goalie is set in position, facing the shooter, isn't screened, and the shot is coming from 10-15 feet out (or more), he should be making more saves than he does.

And the D-men, they get blamed a LOT more than they should (at least on this forum).  I'll give 2 examples/reasons:  1.)  The forwards are SO bad in their own end that the D-men get hung out to dry. I have seen forwards just kinda roaming around leaving the trailer uncovered, chasing pucks they will not get to and leaving huge areas open in the D-zone for the oppents to walk into.  How does that make the D-men look bad? The D-men are often in position, but because of zero defensive play by the Sabres forward in their own zone, the D-men have to choose, do I stay in MY assigned spot, or do I cover the WIDE OPEN area of the ice the forward on my team left open?  When I watch replays I see the D-men often play it 'half way', trying to cover a little bit of their area, and a shade a little bit to cover for the Sabres forward who is 'out to lunch'. If a scoring chance came from the Defensemans are...the only reason they weren't there is they had to cover for a forward, but the fanbase IMMEDIATLEY points out its the D-mens fault because in the narrow view of the camer it looks like it.

2.) my 2nd point is related to my first.  There are a few examples of this, but 2 weeks ago the Sabres allowed a goal and I swear there were 4-5 posts right away blaming Power. When I watched the replay, Power was the ONLY guy who played it correctly. The Sabres center was McLeod, he was right behind the puck carrier on the other team and that guy put a little move on McLeod and Mcleod fell for the move and lost him. The puck carrier went toward the corner, and the Sabres winger on the near side was trailing so far behind the play he was a non-factor. So Power, you can see, is watching all of this. As the puck carrier goes into the corner, Power actually looks up, sees he has no coverage in front of the net, but he also sees the guy put the move on Mcleod and leave him in the dust, so now he is all alone approacing the side of the net. Power looks up again, turns to look into the corner, and then shades toward the puck carrier because there is no support from the winger (and none coming). The puck ends up going to the front of the net, McLeod didn't get there in time, and a goal is scored.  On the Camera, you can't see the winger WAY beind the play, and on one angle you don't see McLeod getting absolutly roasted by the other team, so while Power is hung out to dry, he LOOKS like he didn't know what he was doing when in fact he was covering for 2 forwards who either made a bad defensive play, or where lollygagging up the ice.

Yeah, I know there are legit times Power (or other D-men) DO make bad plays, but I swear there are a lot of "obvious" bad plays they make that actually aren't bad plays, when you watch the entire play unfold and see the awful support they are getting from the forwards.

Cozens was guilty of this and you got rid of him so thats good.  Quinn might still be the biggest offender in the D-zone, he is awful, one of the worst forwards in the league in terms of supporting the D-men.  McLeod has taken a huge step back in this regard this year vs last year. Tuch's strength is forchecking, not playing in his own zone, I get that, but Tuch also really isn't that good inside his own Blue line.  I realize Zucker was playing hurt early in the year but he is guilty of this a lot this year too.

Sometimes the forwards need to give more effort to get back.

Other times when they get back they actually have to do 'nothing' but hold their position, clog up the shooting and passing lanes. This is where Tage is actually pretty good and doesn't get enough credit. He gets inside the blue line and holds his position, and now with his size and reach, that entire area of the ice is a 'no fly zone' for the opposition. He LOOKS like hes not doing anything. He's not chasing loose pucks, he's not forcing turnovers, but he is LETTING the D-men do the work down low instead of forcing them to have to constantly monitor the ice and recoginze where the forwards are messing up and then look bad when they try to figure out how to cover for them.

I think more often than not, the best way a forward can help in their own end is to have your Center just patrol the center of the ice, the wingers ONLY engage the boards when there is legit chance to get a puck, and DO NOT CHASE the puck all around the ice.  Again, hold your postion, play zone defense, and let the D-men engage the puck with the knowledge they aren't going to be hung out to dry by a forward who is wandering/chasing.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with most of this, I still have some differences though.

The goals allowed.

I think a lot actually IS on the goalies. The defense isn't perfect, they aren't one of the best in the league, but over the past 2 years I still maintain I am seeing the same things:  Goalies allowing more 'weak' goals than they should.  Yeah, I get forwards have 'nhl shots' and can pick corners, but when a goalie is set in position, facing the shooter, isn't screened, and the shot is coming from 10-15 feet out (or more), he should be making more saves than he does.

And the D-men, they get blamed a LOT more than they should (at least on this forum).  I'll give 2 examples/reasons:  1.)  The forwards are SO bad in their own end that the D-men get hung out to dry. I have seen forwards just kinda roaming around leaving the trailer uncovered, chasing pucks they will not get to and leaving huge areas open in the D-zone for the oppents to walk into.  How does that make the D-men look bad? The D-men are often in position, but because of zero defensive play by the Sabres forward in their own zone, the D-men have to choose, do I stay in MY assigned spot, or do I cover the WIDE OPEN area of the ice the forward on my team left open?  When I watch replays I see the D-men often play it 'half way', trying to cover a little bit of their area, and a shade a little bit to cover for the Sabres forward who is 'out to lunch'. If a scoring chance came from the Defensemans are...the only reason they weren't there is they had to cover for a forward, but the fanbase IMMEDIATLEY points out its the D-mens fault because in the narrow view of the camer it looks like it.

2.) my 2nd point is related to my first.  There are a few examples of this, but 2 weeks ago the Sabres allowed a goal and I swear there were 4-5 posts right away blaming Power. When I watched the replay, Power was the ONLY guy who played it correctly. The Sabres center was McLeod, he was right behind the puck carrier on the other team and that guy put a little move on McLeod and Mcleod fell for the move and lost him. The puck carrier went toward the corner, and the Sabres winger on the near side was trailing so far behind the play he was a non-factor. So Power, you can see, is watching all of this. As the puck carrier goes into the corner, Power actually looks up, sees he has no coverage in front of the net, but he also sees the guy put the move on Mcleod and leave him in the dust, so now he is all alone approacing the side of the net. Power looks up again, turns to look into the corner, and then shades toward the puck carrier because there is no support from the winger (and none coming). The puck ends up going to the front of the net, McLeod didn't get there in time, and a goal is scored.  On the Camera, you can't see the winger WAY beind the play, and on one angle you don't see McLeod getting absolutly roasted by the other team, so while Power is hung out to dry, he LOOKS like he didn't know what he was doing when in fact he was covering for 2 forwards who either made a bad defensive play, or where lollygagging up the ice.

Yeah, I know there are legit times Power (or other D-men) DO make bad plays, but I swear there are a lot of "obvious" bad plays they make that actually aren't bad plays, when you watch the entire play unfold and see the awful support they are getting from the forwards.

 

Not gonna argue with you, the goaltending is below average, but the TNT post game ripped the Sabres defense.   They said they have been seeing it for a long time with this group.  Hank pointed out more of total team aspect to defense rather than the defensemen per se, but  Biz criticized the defense for not hitting anyone.  Other teams are fearless and get a free pass too often.  

I agree with both of them.  

[mjd1001]

18 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Not gonna argue with you, the goaltending is below average, but the TNT post game ripped the Sabres defense.   They said they have been seeing it for a long time with this group.  Hank pointed out more of total team aspect to defense rather than the defensemen per se, but  Biz criticized the defense for not hitting anyone.  Other teams are fearless and get a free pass too often.  

I agree with both of them.  

I see the point about the D not hitting they don't do that a lot.

But in terms of the Sabres defense overall play that he ripped, was he referring to just the D-men, or the entire group of skaters?

[Pimlach]

36 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I see the point about the D not hitting they don't do that a lot.

But in terms of the Sabres defense overall play that he ripped, was he referring to just the D-men, or the entire group of skaters?

Biz criticized the d-men.  Hank kept it at team defense and having the willingness to play it.