JohnC

You are right that the $500 M is not accurate. I thought I was quoting you but obviously not. I'm not sure where I got that figure from but it is clear that it is way off the mark. So for that large mistake I apologize. The Pegulas paid $165 M for the franchise and they also took over managing the arena, bought two lacrosse teams (Buffalo and Rochester) and the Rochester AHL team and control of that arena. All those enterprises are currently closed down and not generating income. They also put money into upgrading the locker room and training facilities in Buffalo. So it wouldn't surprise me if the added costs brought the figure to somewhere around $200 M plus. With respect to the manner in which the Rigas' ran their business it was clearly run much differently than most operations. Their hockey books were grossly intermingled with their other businesses and funds were used for personal reasons. There is nothing unusual that expense accounts and business accounts are tapped into for personal expenses but it was at such an extreme level that it resulted in criminal charges and convictions for papa Rigas and one of his sons. Their hockey ledger sheet was indecipherable leaving a trail of a lot of unpaid contractors. To Golisano's credit when he bought the team out of bankruptcy he cleaned up the books and ran the operation as a professional business operation. And although he didn't have to because of the organization's bankruptcy status he paid off contractors he was not obligated to do because it was the right thing to do. With respect to the highlighted segment my point is that the Sabre franchise has been financially hard hit as many franchises are because of the virus, and this financial stress is going to last beyond this upcoming season and entering the next season. Where you and I diverge is that I believe that it is greater than you believe it to be.

Few people could have foreseen the disastrous affects of the pandemic. Ask the airline companies if this virus era was actually an opportunity in disguise in order to re-calibrate their business model? Ask the hotel and hospitality industry if this Covid era is a blessing in disguise? Ask the energy industry if this period of time is a hidden golden opportunity? The Pegula panoply of businesses associated with their hockey team and hospitality business very much linked with his hockey operation are not showing paper losses, they are showing actual dollar losses. Right now the dramatic decline in business has resulted in revenue losses that don't come close to matching expenses resulting in actual hard currency ($$$$$) losses. This is not your typical paper loss which business use to camouflage their profits. It is actually losses that put your business in jeopardy unless drastic action is taken to buy yourself some time through this repressive business climate until better times which could be more than a year away. Terry Pegula paid $500 M to join the hockey business. Do you think that he knew at the time that all his varied businesses would be swimming in stupendous losses because he would contending with a world-wide pandemic? You bring up the issue of non-hockey money. What you don't bring up is that much of that money is predicated on people being in the arena. There is no concession money, no parking revenue, the in-house store that sells products associated with the team is closed. There is no or minimal advertising money coming in. The prior Rigas operation was a criminal enterprise where the family was intermingling their cable business and other business finances with the team finances. Members of the family went to jail because the manner in which they handled the finances for the team and other businesses was a scam. The first thing that the new owner did, Golasano, is clean up the books and established a hard and tight budget . That corrupt era has nothing to do with the Pegula era.

Your response is the best encapsulation of Reinhart and his game in this thread. It is fair, accurate and concisely stated. Not much can be added to it because it addresses the issue and says all that there needs to be said about the topic.

I don't need to see the specific details of the books. What is well known is that hockey revenue is more predicated on attendance than the other pro sports. And it was reported that the Pegulas lost a lot of money before the virus hit the sports world. The national TV and local team TV deals are certainly not going to be as lucrative as before the plague. Last year was a shortened season with less revenue and it is not guaranteed that this is going to be a full schedule. Staff has been dramatically cut and expenses tightened up to adjust to the severe economic climate. The coaching staff was asked to take a salary cut and then asked to take another cut in which they refused. You don't have to be a business guru to recognize that the financial stresses of the hockey business are evident as it is with a lot of businesses.

The Pegulas were hemorrhaging money on the Sabres before the virus started circulating. The prospects for profitability this season are miniscule to nil. Right now the strategy is to maintain solvency in order to survive for the long term with better prospects. The financial stress is real for the Sabres and the league in general.

Anyone who shuts down a thread because of a Seinfeld clip nakedly lacks humor.

I'm not advocating that his hockey aspirations forever be snuffed out. What I do know that it is not an unusual practice for someone who is offered a scholarship and then gets involved in some type of bad behavior that doesn't necessarily have to be criminal behavior to have their scholarship offer revoked. There is a code of conduct that needs to be met even when you haven't officially entered the program. When a player enters the pro ranks, even at a low level, that player/person is a representative of the organization. If the organization doesn't believe that the player properly represents the organization's values it has a right to separate itself from the person. Young people make mistakes and get involved in bad behavior. There is nothing unusual about that. However, this was a pattern of behavior that exhibited a level of cruelty against a special needs student that was pathological in nature. This wasn't an incident. It was a recurring pattern of cruel behavior against someone who was defenseless. I don't wish this kid ill will. I hope that he gets the help he needs to understand what he did. From the story that I read I didn't get the sense that he was genuinely remorseful. He may have complicated his pathway to his hockey aspirations but he will still be allowed to play the game in the KHL. He will have more opportunities to pursue his hockey career than will his victim have opportunities in life.

My sense is that the Sabres are going with Hutton as the backup. Many people assume that Hutton will be dispatched for another goalie. I just don't see it.

Condolences to you and your family for your loss. Having a loving relationship with a parent/s is a blessing that not all family members have. The lasting tribute to your father is that he instilled not only love but also values that you now pass on to your own family. Best wishes.

Some people disagree with my belief that it was Krueger who was most influential in his signing. If that is the case then the signing at that price that most of us feel is high is a reflection that this is a player that the coach was determined not to lose. And as I stated before it is a priority for this team to improve its PK, a unit he plays on. The Girgs signing is a reflection of how this staff valued him in contrast to Larsson who stated that he had no communication in the offseason from the organization. The coach is trying alter the style of play of his team from a more finesse brand to a harder style of play. The coach, staff and the owners wanted him to stay. So they gave him an offer that quickly sealed the deal. I agree that it was higher than expected but the people who are making the decisions believe that he is worth it. He got what he got. I'm not bothered by the contract.

As @LGR4GM pointed out in his post the Sabres had a list of players they targeted and they worked down that list. Your analysis gives the impression that you can just walk into a store and take whatever you want off the shelves at the price you want it for. Filling the roster in the frenzy of the opening of free agency isn't as neat and tidy as you make it out to be. You made a list of players that we could have had without noting that those players on your list don't necessarily correspond to the players on the Sabres' list. The one player that you seem to have an issue with is Thompson, especially for the contract he signed for. It seems to me that the staff has made an evaluation on him projecting where he will be as a player in the near future. The organization is making a judgment that this young player is now more physically ready and will play up to and hopefully beyond the value of his contract. As I said in a prior post if you take a more overview perspective in judging what has been done this offseason instead of focusing too much on each individual and "what if" transactions you would be more positive about the body of work. There is a saying: Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

I appreciate your succinctness but why do you say that?

The higher power was Krueger. The contract numbers and term indicated that the coach felt it was a priority to keep him. On the Zemgus road to a lucrative contract Krueger was driving the bus.

What you are saying about the contracts attached to the players in hindsight doesn't necessarily reflect the ability to sign the players in real time. As you noted the GM was right in reading the market for Kahun. On the other hand you are making the judgment that Thompson's contract was too rich for the player. That's not necessarily true. If he were given a one year contract and played well and scored beyond what your expectations are his next contract would be more than his current contract. The staff is making a judgment not only what he is as a player today but also what he projects to be for the next few years. Neither one of us at this point can prove whether the organization is right or wrong but these are the many judgments that going into assembling a roster in a cap system. Getting a perfect calibration between performance and the value of a contract for all the members of the roster is unattainable. No GM or organization is that prescient to get to that lofty standard. With respect to overpaying for Girgs I thought it was a little high but it is a reflection that this is a player that Krueger wanted. Krueger is in the process of reshaping the roster and changing its style of play. And as indicated by the size and term of the contract this is a player that Krueger values. My point is even considering that it was higher than most of us expected it wasn't significantly above his value to this team. And it should be noted his value is increased because of his added role of a member of the PK unit, a unit that the coach wants to upgrade. When free agency began the signing action in the league was fast and furious. Not all the players that were on our radar screen were willing to come here, or at least be their first or second or third preferences. When contacts are made between the organization and agents if there wasn't a quick decision then you had to move on to the next option so you wouldn't be left without options. When making an assessment of the contracts and individual value I think the fairest way to make a judgment is no to look at the contracts from an individual point of view but instead have a more overview approach. Taking that wider perspective I believe that this front office has done a good job. And that is not to say that more work can't be done before training camp starts.

You make an excellent point in how you rate him and what the cost would be for that caliber of player. The contract he wanted was too high for his value. And the contract that he garnered from Edmonton demonstrates that it was valued properly by us. I like Kahun a lot. I wished we could have kept him. But as you stated although he is a good third line winger he is at best a fringe second line player. And as you pointed out the Sabres had players who were good options that can replace him. Your analogy of a Shaq Lawson calculation was a terrific analogy in that it stresses the notion of wanting to keep a player up to a point but not beyond that point. In the Covid era of extreme revenue losses there is going to be a lot more hard nosed cost/benefit analysis regarding players and contracts. It applies to all teams. I think so far the Sabres are doing an excellent job in handling the challenges associated with this tough environment.

How so? The Sabres pegged his value correctly in this market. This was an excellent example of using a cost/benefit analysis to make a reasoned decision.

This was a terrific clip! You could feel the tension in the room when the participants were involved with Hall's agent. The MVP in that unexpected transaction is Krueger. He has added a presence and direction that is guiding the restructuring of this roster. What is impressive about KA is that although he is the boss in the hockey operations it is obvious that he is a collaborator and listener. There is no ego insecurity with him. He's a very detailed and organized guy with his to do list. I'm not sure if others caught it but right at the beginning of the clip KA commented that he has been getting texts from Staal encouraging the GM to keep working to get this team better. He seems more bought in than when he first got the news that he was traded.

I'm not even sure that the staff of the Sabres are sure what Mitts's prospects are. And he is in their system. It is still an open question for this young player who has not played up to expectations. Your post used the word definitely. That's not a word that I would consider apt here for an in or outside evaluator. With respect to your analogy of a non-committal recommendation that is my point. A non-committal recommendation is a non-committal recommendation. It is a vague and non-specific response that means "I don't know for sure" and "yet to be determined." What it doesn't mean is that it is a definite determination one way or the other. That was basically my point.

My response is directed to @Curt who seems confused with my response that Jankowski might not have a definite opinion on Mitts. An earlier post by kas indicated that Jankowski is definitely going to have an opinion on Mitts. I don't believe that is necessarily the case. Based on what the player has demonstrated so far the evaluators in Buffalo and outside the organization could just as likely have an inconclusive evaluation of him at this time. Hope this explanation clarifies the issue.

You left out the option of I simply don't know.

There might be some interest for Mitts around the league but what is apparent is that he doesn't have much value as an asset. The obvious reason is that to date he hasn't shown much as a NHL prospect. The best strategy to apply to him or any asset for that matter is to try to maximize it. For that to happen why not just see how he performs in training camp? What if he comes into camp in impeccable shape and competes to the point that he earns his way on to the roster. If he plays well enough but there isn't room for him on the roster then play him in Rochester where he can get extensive playing time and hopefully there will be more progression in his play. If he shows well in training camp and exhibition games his value would increase in a prospective deal. If it is conclusively determined by this organization that he doesn't have a future here then deal him off for whatever you can get for him. You won't get much but you won't get much in return now anyway. Mitts is 21 yrs old. If you are going to make an error in evaluating him why not make the error after giving him more time to show what he is capable of. I can comfortably say that simply I don't know if Mitts will ever make it as a NHL player. If that is the case for our evaluators then it would be wise to be more patient with him. The Sabres' organization is not overloaded with prospects to casually dismiss any players in their system.

You have given a lot of material to digest. I'll address only two of them. With respect to Hall I'm not sure the organization believed that it was in the running for him. Hall made it well known that he wanted to go to a competitive team. Colorado was on his radar but they didn't offer enough money to entice him to go there. The Sabres offered more money on a one year deal than anyone else and the one year deal allowed him to maintain his UFA status after the year. And another selling point is that he had a relationship with Krueger which sealed the deal. The combination of money and Krueger worked in our favor. I'm not sure that Adams/Krueger expected to end up with Hall but as you noted they seemed to have fallback positions to address bringing in a top two line winger. They ended up with a premier top first line player. I believe that the organization was considering goalie upgrades with the expectation that Ullmark was going to be the starter. It just hasn't worked out for money and asset exchange reasons. I don't know how this issue is going to be addressed but I'm starting to think that when the season starts Ullmark/Hutton will be our tandem when training camp starts. As I said before we just have to wait and see.

Most people would agree with you that if a backup upgrade is available the organization would seize that opportunity. Originally, I thought it was going to be one of the first acts of new GM. When Krueger who is a precise wordsmith made the oblique comment that these are our goalies at this time I thought that it was a clear signal that a goalie change was going to quickly materialize. It didn't. You astutely noted that you felt that the organization was not going to overpay for a goalie. Although it currently may not be completely satisfied with the goalie situation it is satisfied to the point that it wasn't going to expend resources $$$$ to do so. At least at this time. The bigger issue for the organization is whether Ullmark is prepared to assume the workhorse load as a #1 goalie. I get the sense that they believe he is ready to assume that responsibility. If Hutton struggles early on as a backup their thinking is probably that he can be replaced more easily for another backup. Time will tell.

You are over analyzing this issue. People in the opinion business give their opinions. And if they change their opinions that shouldn't be surprising because people in the opinion business very often change their opinions. As far as a reluctance to not criticizing the owners that is the standard for all employees in their position. That's called common sense and job security.

Aromatic gratification. 🤡