JohnC
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Posts posted by JohnC
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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
I don't remember which thread I put it in but someone suggested this draft was deeper than normal and I said no. The more I look at it, I think it is slightly deeper than normal. It is above say 2017 but below a 2015.
I have heard multiple NHL analysts say that if you are drafting in the top ten to maybe 12 you will have an opportunity to select a very good prospect. Almost all of them are unanimous about the top three with the next grouping of 7 or so players jockeying for position with each other.
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1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:
I'm envious. In PA, what I've heard is that the mask mandate is impossible to enforce. People can claim they have medical conditions that prevent them from wearing a mask, right down to mental illness, which could be something as common as anxiety about covering your mouth. And no documentation is needed. I'll say this. The mask wearing has picked up a lot as cases have spiked in the south and west. It's weird how we tie ourselves to what's happening in distant places, rather than maintaining a position of, "We don't have a lot of cases here, let's keep it that way."
The mask rule is actually simple to enforce if the rules are clear and unambiguous with few exceptions. And it needs to originate from the state government with the force of the law/regulations behind it. If you allow exceptions then you are sabotaging the efficacy of the law. If in the very rare case that there is a legitimate medical reason not to wear a mask then a doctor's note should be required. That would stop most of the fakers from trying to skirt the mask rule.
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2 hours ago, Curt said:
Oh yes. I wasn’t saying it made no sense to bring Dudley in, I was just referring to the title.
I didn't take it as you suggesting that we shouldn't bring in Dudley. It would be interesting to know what Dudley's plans are now that he is no longer associated with Carolina? I'm wondering if he wants to get back into the grind or be more of of a consultant who works at a more leisurely schedule. He certainly would be a good resource for a young GM and a less than fully staffed scouting department to rely on.
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17 hours ago, Curt said:
Well, if they are not willing to pay him what he thinks he deserves, then he probably isn’t going to Buffalo. Regardless of the title, he would most likely be in an advisory role to Adams. Perhaps similar to what he was doing in Car, as Brawndo just described. The title could be Assistant GM, Director of Player Personel, Assistant Director of Scouting, etc. I doubt it’s the title that matters. It will probably be the duties and compensation that matter.
Having his experienced voice in the room when considering trades and draft prospects would be an asset . Even if he isn't the decision maker his point of view would be invaluable in an offseason most of us expect/hope trades will be made to strengthen the roster.
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On 7/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, Weave said:
Finished up a pretty good sized project today. Had to make a Home Depot run. Today was the first time I became genuinely angry at the people around me. About 25% of the people in the store were maskless. Ridiculous. I gor fed up enough that I finally made a comment in the checkout line. Mr. Maskless in front of me didn’t respond.
Arrogant SOBs that find their convenience more important than public safety. Just go out and about wearing a T shirt with a big middle finger on it, because you’re basically doing the same thing when you go into enclosed public places without a mask. FU too.
The Home Depot in Maryland that I go to requires masks to enter and they limit the number of people in the establishment at one time. Maryland and the county I live in require masks for indoor activities. What I noticed at this particular Home Depot is that it had to post a security person at the entrance in order to enforce the mask rule. This individual ignorance and selfishness is getting tough to tolerate.
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42 minutes ago, Thorny said:
I just want them to take the player that's the best at hockey, ties be damned.
If we keep the pick regardless what teams do who draft ahead of us we will get a good player. What we should be hoping for is a team or two ahead of us select a defenseman so one of the high quality forwards will still be on the board to select from. Most of the analysts indicate that the top three picks will be upper tier prospects and predictable selections. Right now I prefer to keep the pick unless that pick can be used in a trade for a high quality young second line forward.
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2 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:
Id have to think if TBL was going to consider a trade, a Risto contract isn’t something they’d want to take on. They’d want prospects, picks, cheap players.
I consider Risto's contract a reasonable and fair value contract for him. It is probable that Tampa will have to move out players to retain Cirelli. This is a smart and well run franchise. They will get it done.
1 minute ago, Thorny said:I would, as he's already the player, right now, we'd be HOPING that pick *MIGHT* become ONE DAY. Jack is in his prime, right now.
Besides, luckily, JT Miller didn't cost that. We'd be looking at a future 1st, instead. In other words, a steal.
If it were a future #1 I would make the deal. If it was this year's #1 I wouldn't.
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Just now, Thorny said:
I'm looking and hoping for more of a JT miller type deal, or ROR, where almost nothing, relatively, was given up.
The ROR deal was a boondoggle for us. It's remarkable how one bad deal could have such a negative lingering effect. The lesson to be learned in that deal is not to be forced to move a player until you can get fair value for that player.
Miller is a good player. However, I wouldn't be willing to give up this year's first round draft pick for him.
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1 minute ago, Thorny said:
It wasn't my proposal it was @LGR4GM, I agree it would cost more.
And no I wouldn't make the deal you suggest.
In general our views in this topic are in alignment.
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1 minute ago, Thorny said:
We shouldn't plan for a situation where Cozens is the 2C as it's no guarantee - that's no way to run a franchise, relying on hope. Besides, we need another top 6 player REGARDLESS of if Cozens solidifies himself in that spot, down the line. Which, the likelihood goes up for, if he's brought along properly.
Of COURSE it makes sense to trade for a top tier centre, we need one! We of course need to be mindful of the assets it'll cost, and weight that as part of the decision making process, but it's a fault equation from the start if the second bolded, that "until", is included as part of the process. It's not until, it's "if".
When you talk about trading for a top tier 2C there is an assumption that the price is going to be high. That's the only way that type of deal is going to be secured. It will require multiple assets moved out to get that valued type of second line center. As I posted in a prior post if theoretically Cirelli or a similar type talent could be dealt for you have to consider giving up a player such as Risto, Cozens and a first round pick, either this year or next. I wouldn't do it.
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2 hours ago, Thorny said:
If it's a top 10 protected 1st next year, Mitts, and Johnson, it's such a no-brainer of a "yes" from us that I'm assuming it would cost more.
The deal you propose is certainly a terrific deal for us. But it is not a reasonable and fair value deal for Tampa. For the sake of discussion if a deal could be made would you deal Risto, Cozens and a 1st next year? I wouldn't. And let's not forget there is an assumption that Cirelli would be willing to sign a long term deal with us. I just don't see the player agreeing to a pre-trade deal in order to make the trade happen.
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33 minutes ago, Curt said:
Agree that it’s unlikely that Cirelli is both (1) moved, and (2) moved with the division to Buffalo.
Small quibble, Tampa was always in a fine position to resign Stamkos. The only question was if he wanted to go somewhere else or not. Specifically, whether he wanted to be close to home (Toronto).
My understanding is that he could have gotten more gross money signing with Toronto or New York. However, the salary differential was narrowed because Florida has no state income tax. As it stood he was in a good situation playing with a good organization that was a perennial cup contender. Considering all the factors he was in a good situation and decided to stay in a good situation. The same scenario applies to Cirelli as a player and Tampa as an organization.
In a year or two it is hoped that Cozens will develop into a 2C. So it doesn't make sense to trade for a top tier center and end up yielding a lot of assets for an already thin team. If I had to guess I would lean toward the front office making a deal for a player such as Anaheim's Adam Henrique to fill the position for the short term until Cozens is ready.
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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
He is an RFA without arbitration rights. He has almost zero leverage. He can holdout, but that isn’t good for anyone. He can sign in Europe, but that is a huge step down in competition and far from his home. His only real leverage is to sign a short-term deal until he can become a UFA, but that may limit his current income. The truth is if TB is foolish enough to trade him in the division, he’d sign and relatively quickly.
That said, TB traded Miller To Vancouver. If they have to trade Cirelli, expect a deal out West somewhere.
Also he only had 44 pts in 68 games. This isn’t exactly HOF production. He is a very good player, but again there are probably cheaper alternatives which are much more likely to get done then us acquiring Cirelli even with an offer sheet.
We need to be more realistic. If by some miracle he is acquired without destroying another part of the team, then great. However, I can almost guarantee Cirelli won’t be a Sabre next season.
Bullet points
1. TB will almost certainly keep Cirelli. They will find takers for two of their NTC players and two players like Gourde and Johnson looking for a fresh start.
2. Even if we make an Offer Sheet for Cirelli, it doesn’t mean he’ll sign.
3. Even if he does sign the offer sheet, TB will match it to keep him, as they can be over the cap in the off-season. This will actually give them the opportunity to still trade two NTCs and keep Cirelli without worrying about the contract negotiations or trade him with the contract done.4. Odds of them trading within the division are nearly zero.
We in general are in accord. My primary point in my post on this Cirelli subject is that I believe it is improbable that Tampa has any interest in trading him to the Sabres. And I don't believe the Sabres are willing to give up the bounty in assets required to acquire him even if he is willing to sign a deal.
As I said in my prior post Tampa is a well run organization that is known for its smart decisions. A lot of people thought that Tampa was not in a good position to sign Stamkos when he was a free agent. They got the deal done just as I believe they will do with Cirelli.
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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
No we wouldn't. He's an RFA. If we trade for him we can then sign him. He might get a Reinhart level bridge (from tampa) instead of the 6mil he's worth.
Does he have to sign? And if so what would be the length of the contract?
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A few years ago when Stamkos was a free agent many people thought he would be too costly for Tampa to keep. At that time it was thought that the front runner in the bidding for his services would be Toronto where he was from. Tampa is one of the best run hockey operations in the league. And they are a perennial cup contender. Stamkos probably could have gotten more money from another team if he desired to leave. Instead, he stayed with a team which consistently wins and lives in a state that has no state income tax so some of the extra money that he could have gotten from another team is offset by the lower state income tax.
As others have pointed out Tampa has to contend with a number of no trade clauses making it even more challenging to fit in a fair-value contract for a young star like Cirelli. I just don't see him leaving to go to a team like Buffalo even if he decides to leave. If Tampa was willing to trade him we would have to have him signed to a new long term contract before the deal could be made.
There are a few second-tier 2Cs who could be available and would be less costly if traded for. That might be a more feasible and a more realistic route to take in our quest to find a suitable center for the second line.
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3 hours ago, Curt said:
It was good, useful bottom 6 line, that served a purpose. They were great at preventing goals, and scored enough to at least break even. In the quest to score more goals than the other team, they were not a problem.
Obviously the team needs more scoring, but even if better offensive players were brought in, there could still be a role for that Larsson line.
Every player on a team has a role, the roles that were lacking were those secondary scoring lines.
This line as a checking line did serve its role very well. But the problem is that one of the glaring weaknesses of this team is its lack of secondary scoring. No one expects their checking line to be a high scoring line. But they still need to contribute more to the offense than what it currently does. From the standpoint of fulfilling their role this line may have been the most consistent line. But in my estimation you still need a few more goals to chip in with the scoring.
Okposo fits in well with this line. Because of his contract it is unlikely that he could be moved. Larsson is good at taking draws and has some jam to his game. If a player is going to be moved I see it being Girgensons not because he doesn't serve a role but because it might be in his best interest and the team's best interest to have a change of scenery.
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2 hours ago, Xzy89c said:
his ceiling is third line center. hopefully he can get there in next couple years.
It may not be next season but there are strong odds that he will be the 2C or second line forward the following season. He is going to make the roster this year, and if handled properly and playing with the right players will be a contributor in his rookie year. He probably is more advanced that Mitts and Tage. Even as an 18 or 19 year old he is physically very developed with room to grow and very mature. The attacked link is a column on Cozens by Jordan LaBarber from NHL.com.
https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-prospects-rewind-dylan-cozens/c-316649574
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1 minute ago, nfreeman said:
Now this is a perspective that I disagree with. These GMs are paid millions of dollars to get these decisions right. It's appropriate and fair to hold them to a higher standard than some yob who bought the Hockey News draft preview.
If Mitts washes out and a bunch of guys drafted after him turn into good players (which, it should be noted, hasn't happened yet), JB is accountable IMHO.
Nylander didn't work out for us. He was dealt for Joki who is a better player. So that is a plus replacement. Mitts being rushed was a mistake. Will he be a player worthy of his draft selection? I don't know.
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2 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:
Oh Jesus. You.
For others here, this guy lives 24/7 in the "Sabres/hockey" thread over at Two Bills Drive.
I think he's a member of the Sabres PR Department b/c all he ever offers is insane, off-the-wall, wrong takes about Sabres and hockey, all dipped in large amounts of ridiculous positivity sauce.
Either that, or he's the biggest sucker Sabres fan you've ever known.
Let's all hope he goes back over to TBD and stays there.
Thank you for your kind and welcoming words. I will add you to my short and exclusive Christmas card list.
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1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:
I know that he used the word "franchise" but, I think he was talking about the JBot "era".
Olofsson didn't really develop here, he spent about 4yrs in SHL and only needed to get used to the NHL rinks and style.
My take on both Mitts and Nylander is all about attitude. There's a word heard frequently as of late that comes to mind..."privileged".
When you draft 17-18 yrs old its not surprising that some kids are mature and others are not. Some quickly grow out of it while others have a slower progression. NHL hockey drafting is more unpredictable than NFL drafting because of the age differential when selecting. I'm not as critical as others on the selection of Mitts and Nylander because both players were drafted in the vicinity of where they ranked as prospects. And I still have some hope although not certain that Mitts could develop into a contributing player. As far as Nylander there should be no complaints about this traded player because he was flipped for Joki, who I believe is going to be a good player for us for a long time.
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3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
Name 4 forwards in the system that this applies too.
Cozens, looks good
Mitts, rushed and ***** up his development
Tage, gazelle that wasn't ready and should never have been the cornerstone to the ROR trade
Pekar? anyone else? I literally cannot name 4 forwards this franchise drafted to apply this criteria too that even have NHL shots. I suppose if I include Asplund but wasn't he a GMTM guy?
The Sabres drafted Eichel. Was that a mistake? The Sabres drafted Dahlin instead of a forward? Was that a mistake? Reinhart was the second pick in his draft. It was a reasonable pick. As you noted Cozens look good. And as you noted Mitts was rushed. However, that is not to say that he won't develop. Nylander, just like Mitts, was drafted in the vicinity of where he was ranked in his class. He ended up being dealt for Joki. So essentially his selection has turned out to be Joki who is capable of being a second-pairing caliber of player. Olofsson was developed in the system and has turned out better than one could reasonably expect. This organization traded for ROR and they got one of the best two way centers in the game. And that is what he was and is. But for a number of reasons that have exhaustively been discussed here he was moved. There isn't anyone who will make the claim that we didn't get shortchanged. We are not the only team in hockey that has moved disgruntled players because it wanted to dispose of a problem. I would have waited for a better deal but the organization made the decision that it didn't want him in the locker room. Will Tage turn out to be a decent player? I don't know. Young tall and lanky players take time to physically mature. Chara's early years were not impressive. KI'm not suggesting he is the caliber of player that Chara is but from a physical profile these tall and thin players take time to physically mature and fill out.
It's easy to be an oracle and say who should have been drafted 3 to 4 yrs after the fact. When you draft 17-18 yr olds you never really now how the player will turn out unless the player is one of the few who fall in the can't miss category. But if you go back and review the players who were drafted they all fell in the range where they were ranked. How else are you going to do it?
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46 minutes ago, Eleven said:
I think you guys are forgetting that he always wanted an NFL team.
What do I and the Donald have in common? I also wanted to buy the Bills when they were for sale. However, just like Donald I lacked the coinage. The difference between our efforts to buy is that I didn't have the PR apparatus to promote the delusion. Promoting a myth doesn't make it real.
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1 minute ago, Taro T said:
Jokiharju tailed off to some degree after Scandella was traded. Am hopeful that he'll grow into a #3, but we've seen a lot of guys flash that potential when 1st brought in/up & they haven't lived up to the billing. Am hopeful he can do it, but this next season will let us know whether he's a Tallinder in waiting or a Gragnani.
Scandella was a superb mentor and complement to the young defenseman. Joki was 20 yrs old last year. His poise for his age and inexperience was impressive. I see a lot of upside with him. Internal improvement by our young players is going to be an important factor in making this team credible.
You make a keen observation. I watched some of the old games on MSG during this hockey interlude. I didn't realize how good Tallinder was. Because he was so efficient and not a banger he was not a high profile player. But without a doubt this quiet player was an instrumental player.
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6 minutes ago, Taro T said:
To the bolded, absolutely. Rodrigues didn't fit into the LT plans and Sheary, after Skinner was signed was never going to play consistently on Eichel's line, so he was effectively an expensive 3rd liner as well. Getting a guy that should be fairly cheap for the next 2-3 years that still MIGHT have more to show was an excellent pickup. And he's still a very good acquisition if he never ends up more than a utility player that can move up a line in a pinch.
But that Olofsson-Johansdon-Kahun line was displaying chemistry in the brief time they were together. If there's a real 2C brought in that could allow the basis for 3 solid (though not spectacular) lines as there'd be 4 top 6 guys on those 2 lines & hopefully another piece or 2 could also be brought in. Though it would be more likely that Thompson, Mittelstadt, &/or Fozins would get looks at top 6 wing slots then.
My guess is that Olofsson stays top 6 & Thompson gets 1st crack at 2RW, w/ Kahun & Cozens also getting looks. So, Johansson is the steadying influence on the red scoring line working w/ 2 of the 4 (including Kahun) young guys.
And agree that they need some luck with the young guys, but the best way to get lucky is to find that 2C and let everybody else play where they should, not where they have to.
Botterill has received some deserved criticism for his rebuild strategy of being too patient with his draft and develop approach. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I believe it was to an extent working but the time required to take that route was a factor in his demise. He needed to be more bold and exhibit greater urgency to accelerate the rebuild process especially with Jack in his prime. There is not question that the ROR trade had lingering damaging consequences. But let's give credit where deserved. I thought the Jokiharju deal for Nylander was a terrific deal and the acquisition of Kahun for players who weren't going to be here the next year was also excellent deal.
I thought Joki was our most consistent defenseman last year. I think he is going to be a gem.
Sabres Announce GM Jason Botterill has been Fired. Kevyn Adams Named GM
in The Aud Club
Posted
I will now take the opportunity to ask the esteemed hirsute reporter if you believe Botterill would have been retained if he was more receptive to the restructuring (thinning out) of the hockey operation? Or another way of saying it is when you are not receptive to the boss's suggestion/request you are looked at less favorably by your superiors and put in a very precarious position.