Kelly the Dog
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Posts posted by Kelly the Dog
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When Zero Fuxgiven traded for Kane I initially thought maybe he gave up too much. Until I saw that Bogosian was flat out a better player than Myers and then I no longer thought he gave up too much, but that it was probably a steal.
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Friedman's 30 Thoughts:
Canucks wanted 31 from us for Lack and one reason we beat Edmonton for Lehner was because we took on salary.
Plus a bit from Bylsma on RoR and lots of good draft gossip.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-canucks-bieksa-deserves-better/
Interesting from that article, as it pertains to Gus, Reinhart, OReilly playing wing instead of center-- "Lightning GM Steve Yzerman, asked if the playoffs made him debate whether Steven Stamkos is a centre or a winger. “Why not both? I played both in my career, and it helped me. It’s more about who he plays with than where he plays.”
Possibly. Maybe waiting until the last second hoping for a trade? He has to be on waivers by Tuesday at noon for a buyout so they have two more days.
I just don't see any spot for him. He's not going to play in the top six. He sucks as a checker. He won't do much if anything on the fourth line. Where would he play?
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Those are the lines I want although Larrson should be the #4 C.Good article on the Sabres opening night roster and depth chart. Plus if you haven't seen Murray's 13 minute interview post 1st round, it's in there too
http://thehockeywriters.com/buffalo-sabres-depth-chart-predictions/
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Gone are all the players who would disappear or loaf or go through the motions like Staff, Hodgson, even Zads at times.
Gone are all the players who shouldn't be in the league.
Gone are all the players who worked their ass off but really don't have the pure hockey talent to survive and prosper.
Gone is the coach that was more concerned with compete than scoring and defense.
With no stars
In their place are big, tough, hard working self starters with some skill or a boatload of skill, and a Stanley Cup winning coach with a couple solid assistants, a future bona fide superstar and two or three potential star players in Kane, OReilly and Reinhart.
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I think fans in all team sports often misinterpret contract demands as players being mercenaries and money grubbing selfish bastards. Some of them surely are. But money is the only way sports measures players against other players. A ton of it is ego and respect. If you offer a contract less than another player it's not that he has a million more dollars than me as much as you think that guy is better than me and he's not. Someone else will pay me more because they know I am better. It's bragging rights, or more accurately "worth" almost as much as actual money.There's a school of thought that states RoR is a pure capitalist for sale to the highest bidder.
I'm not so certain, and I'm pretty sure Tim Murray agrees with me.
As near as I can figure, the contract issues that clouded his stay in Colorado may not exist here.
O'Reilly is a hyper competitive individual who believes he is a first-line player and wants to be the go-to guy.
Colorado told him they loved him but consistently ranked him behind Duchene on their depth chart and in their payroll.
It didn't help that the Avs have been a budget team, and that Duchene is signed to an artificially low deal.
The Sabres are not a budget team and their coach has already declared RoR his number one centre. They showed him a lot of respect by they price they paid to get him. Terry Pegula will amplify that with his personal welcome. It's not so much about the cash as it is the ego. It's swagger and it's pride and it is common with elite athletes. O'Reilly thinks of himself as Bergeron or Kopitar. Show him you agree by paying him at that level and he will be here for a long time.
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No question it should not be questioned. ;)DeLuca and KTD i appreciate both of your thoughtfulness on this subject. I agree balance is the word and acknowledging that some of what Murray is doing is risky, but calculated and only part of the strategy is probably correct. That doesnt mean it should not be questioned. The koolaid crowd drives me up the wall as much as the sky is falling crowd can be a bit much too, balance.
It could be a huge error. Kane could blow up. Lehner is a madman. Oreilly may never be worth the money. We are all betting on his pretty good reputation as a talent evaluator. But even the best ones miss 50% of the time. Guys like RoR are pretty low risk.
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I wish WGR or one of the news stations could grab a Sabres player, whose been here for much of the "suffering" such as Ennis or Weber and ask them what they are feeling now. The fans are thrilled. We embraced the tank and it's coming full circle but i have to think that guys like Ennis, Weber and even to a lesser extend Moulson gotta be thinking they're on cloud 9 right now.
I was thinking today that Murray likely told Moulson and Gionta and Gorges that pretty much this is what he was going to do. He wouldn't publicly say this, but I think this was his plan all along. To get rid of everyone, get McEichel and make a couple of blockbusters for proven big name guys who fit his idea of players, like Kane.
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I'd love to see Sekera back here. I thought he played well under Lindy Ruff, but he really excelled in Carolina and Los Angeles.
He'd be a really good pairing with Risto, too, I think.
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I think I like the idea of Pysyk with Bogo, and then Gorges to help McCabe. Bogo showed more offensive skills than I thought he had. Pysyk and Bogo together could get quick transition passes out, too.
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Pick probably would have been Dennis Gilbert if he wasn't selected with the final pick of the third round.
That would have been great. I know his family pretty well. At least he got to go to a great city and franchise.
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Not only that but he said exactly what he was going to do when he took the job. He's going to sell off everyone that is UFA, he is going to get rid of anyone that does not want to be here, he is going to acquire big tough hard working team players who are hard to play against, and if guys who are in their early twenties and established top six or top line players are available, even if we have to take on some contacts with them, he would pick them up in the middle of the season or on draft day in exchange for some of his best assets.Lehner is simple: Murray determined Lehner is more valuable to him than any player he could pick at 21.
And while I question the concussion as well, Murray does have a medical staff, NHL research, personal and professional experience, and sport history to help evaluate the potential outcome of this injury.
I would guess that, while a gamble, the degree of the gamble falls well in favor of Murray and the Sabres.
Murray is like an abstract artist, you have to step back and take in the totality of his work. There have been individual moves that I would question, or wonder about, but when I look at what the Murray "big picture", it makes complete sense.
He's done exactly that in about a year and a half.
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Good post, Deluca. Plus, Murray is not always going to be like this. He will have players of his choosing on the team and won't have to be making risky monster trades and giving away assets he didn't draft or three for ones, etc. within one year from now he's going to have an entire team of his players (or his kind of players) and it won't be so swing for the fences.
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I'm trying to think of one thing I don't really like about this kid, other than growing up a Bruin fan but that wasn't his fault. He's got size, speed, vision, talent, toughness, a shot, touch, good passer, can hit, great attitude, work ethic, leader, confident without arrogance, seems to love Buffalo and love the challenge, mature for his age, media savvy, cares for his friends and family and teammates, the stage is never too big, a winner. Jesus Christ.
Well, not Jesus Christ, but...
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I can't remember how many countless hours I spent in the last couple years sitting Indian style in the middle of my living room floor with 12 of my favorite Hockey Cards, arranging and rearranging four rows of three each and contemplating all of the infinite possibilities with my Jerry D'amigo, and Zac Dalpe and Porter Flynn, and Flynn Porter and Phil Varone and Matt D'agostini and Zenon Konopka and Ville Leino and Cory Conacher and Luke Adam, etc, trying to mesh playing styles they could feed off each other.
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It cannot be over-emphasized that in every team sport, one star player is way, way more valuable than two very good players or three good players. Kane and Reilly are all but star players already.The team that gets the best player wins the trade. Which trade did TM lose?
And yes, the Sabres winning will make a lot of things better.
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Me neither and that part I agree with, my concern is with what he got in return specifically Kane... Head case... We will see the first time he feels slighted, and Lerner - head ache case. Was gonna say case of head but that sounded wrong....
There is a difference between mercurial players and so called head cases on the ice and ones off the ice. They both can hurt your team but they are different. On the ice, Kane is known for relentless hustle, and being the ultimate competitor. He's no problem whatsoever on the ice, in fact he's a role model. Same with O'Reilly. He was a problem and distraction over contract and money and would he even be there, etc. all that goes away when he signs a new contract. On the ice he's a firebrand and everything you want in a character guy.
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Yep. We should all adopt the Zero Fux Given attitude of Murray. In fact, he should probably change his name to Zero Fukksgiven, kinda like Zero Mostel or Ryan Fitzgibbons.If the Sabres become Stanley Cup contenders in the next three or so years, does it matter? Not to me.
Given the talent available, and the assets we had/have to build a competitive roster, highly competitive roster, anyone have suggestions where Murray could have done better?
We have seen the draft-and-wait approach. We have experienced the cautious, conservative approach to building a team and we all collectively thought it sucked. Buffalo needed shock and awe, we got shock and awe. We needed excitement and a zero-f*&ks-given attitude. We have it and it's awesome to be part of it.
You want to wait 5-6 years to see if we can contend? Okay, draft your prospects, play the game the old fashioned way. You want to vie for a Cup in 3-4 years or less? I give you Tim Murray.
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One of the keys to the Lehner trade is exactly that. It's both a bridge and a look to the future. If it pans out, and Lehner turns into a top 10 or higher goalie in two years, he's going to be 25 and growing up together with Eichel and Kane, OReilly, Gus, Ennis, Risto, reinhart, etc.Murray said from the get go picks/prospects would be used to better this team. He went w/ his plan and executed it very well. The Sabres are far better and prepared for the future.
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Murray thinks like Whaley thinks with the Bills. Good GMs think short term, mid term, and long term all at the same time, and work out all kinds of scenarios like with algorithms in their heads. Fans think in terms of each individual deal. Not saying that Murray is going to be right or Whaley is always right. But there is a clear plan and strategy and it's always at play.LA needs Toffoli, but they can only do so much. Toffoli just played his cards right and sped up his next big contract. I wouldn't say he was obtainable just because he signed a short term deal. That said, he will be attainable in 2 years if the Sabres want him then.
I think it's the wrong way to look at it. In a draft this deep the Sabres took their 3 picks and decided that rather than wait 3-4 years and see IF the player will pan out they would rather have those 3-4 years removed from the equation and sign players that have already panned out. They shortened the timeline, reduced the risk. Essentially they cherry picked good players who didn't fit to the team they were on. What allowed them to do this? Having the ability to send picks and prospects to those teams. They were dealing from a position of strength and used it in my opinion.
The Sabres were never going to benefit from having 8-10 prospects all hitting contracts at the same time. They needed to space it out more and they did that.
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You also can't look at it in a vacuum. If you want to just look at a trade concerning draft picks, in the Kane/Bogosion example you used, Murray committed highway robbery. He got a 3rd overall and a 4th overall for an 11th, 16th and 23rd plus a second rounder.
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I don't think what can be underestimated is not only the players that Murray brought in but the kind of players, as well as the ones that got shipped out. Grigs was a could have been. Zads I really didn't want to see go but he is a lightning rod. Hodgson is gone. Every guy he brought in is big, tough and self starter, even the Legwand and McGinn throw ins. There isn't one player on this entire team that isn't a hard worker on the ice. Even our new goalie is a maniac. The addition by subtraction as well as the talent and the experience brought in makes this an entirely different kind of team.Hopefully our team learns to play together, play hard for each other, and show the rest of the league that in a few years, they will be a force to be reckoned with.
Time to stop being the laughing stock and start making strides to respectability and then domination. One thing I really want is for them to start making their building a nasty place to play in for opposing teams. To build a good foundation and a team that says "screw you everyone else" we are a tight group and will back each other up.
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This one is my favorite so far. That one would have me wanting to watch every one of the lines rather than having to wait for one or two or three to finish their shift quick to get a decent one out there.This lineup is from sabres.nhl.com
I like this lineup for the start of the season. Keep Girgensons on the top 2 lines by pushing him to RW. Like the idea of keeping Eichel and Reinhart off the first line. Less pressure. As the season progress make appropriate changes. Maybe moving Girgensons to C line 3, Eichel to C line 1, Reinhart to C line 2 and O'Reilly to RW line 2.
Evander Kane - Ryan O’Reilly - Tyler Ennis
Matt Moulson - Jack Eichel (if he goes pro) - Zemgus Girgensons.Marcus Foligno - Sam Reinhart - Brian Gionta Nicolas Deslauriers - Johan Larsson - Jamie McGinn
Extras: David Legwand, Cody McCormick
Josh Gorges - Zach Bogosian Jake McCabe - Rasmus Ristolainen Mike Weber - Mark Pysyk
Goalies:
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A couple things are a given, like we all can't wait to see Eichel, and probably how good is Reinhart, and O'Reilly. Lehner, too.
Personally, I can't wait to see Kane play with these guys, and I can't wait to see Ennis play with good players.
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As we have all witnessed here with those who shall not be named, at times when a GM gets locked in on a player what is clear to some is not clear to that GM or is easily be excused away. Today Murray was talking about Lehner's game being effected by him not being named the #1 goalie. That was odd and I think that says something.
I'm not trying to beat up on Murray, for this one individual trade i wish he would have gone in a different direction or simply waited for another opportunity down the line. Overall I am happy with the job Murray has done. I was not a big proponent of the O'Reilly trade before it happened, but seeing what the actual price ended up being I think it was a fantastic job by Murray.
Oh I pretty much agree with you. He was set on Lehner and he really didn't care what he paid for him as long as it was not outrageous. And Lehner may not be good. I hated the trade initially and only barely accepted it later. In fact, I'm even rationalizing that we should look at the trades together and no one would have minded the 21-Z-Girgs-Compher for ROR-McGinn and then the 31 for Lehner-Legwant would look fine. That's crazy, I know. Ha.
Right now, like you said, GMTM had a great day. We will know in 2-3 years if Lehner sucks, is pretty good, good or very good. Each of those are probably 25% although as of now I still trust Murray's ability as a scout, so I think it's more likely to be the better two than the worse two.
I just love that we have a #1 goalie (only because they are all a crapshoot), and hopefully the Goalie Whisperer will stay on and do his magic on a slightly more talented guy than Neuvirth and Lindback and Enroth.
This team could make the playoffs.
2015 / 2016 Line Up
in The Aud Club
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I believe Bylsma and/or Murray said that flat out in an interview after the draft, that they may play Eichel a little differently at home when they have the matchup advantage.