[GDT: Islanders @ Sabres, Oct. 21, 2023 - 7pm EDT, MSG 📺 WGR 📻]

2 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Middle six looks like chewed up dog ****.

Correction. The TT and Jost lines are garbage.

Greenway-Thompson-Cozens looks like garbage???

I think it could work great!  Greenway doesn’t suck.

[GDT: Islanders @ Sabres, Oct. 21, 2023 - 7pm EDT, MSG 📺 WGR 📻]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

Losing 3 out of 4 in regulation right out of the gate at home would be grounds for firing someone. It would be completely unacceptable. This should be a game where the Sabres come out with their hair on fire, Outshoot the Isles like 45-20 for the game. I’d expect a big W tonight and nothing less.

I mean, it’s not, because this isn’t the NFL.  It is unacceptable, but sometimes ***** happens.

Id expect a W too, rest advantage at home.

[GDT: Islanders @ Sabres, Oct. 21, 2023 - 7pm EDT, MSG 📺 WGR 📻]

Greenway-Thompson-Cozens Skinner-Mittelstadt-Tuch Peterka-Jost-Olofsson Girgensons-Krebs-Okposo

Line changes are interesting.  Stinks for Peterka, but I can’t really come up with something better, unless they broke up Girgs and Okposo.  Olofsson needs to go.  Peterka-Jost-Olofsson should be the lowest TOI line, and the other three lines look good.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Is Cozens really that bad 2 way or just struggling overall? I’ve always seen him as a pretty good 2 way guy but I could be way off the mark 

I think he is fine.  Not great or awful.  He has the physical tools and the will.  It’s just that he is a big transition offense guy, so it can probably be tough to find the balance between getting back deep to help and finding opportunities to get out on the rush.  Plus he is still pretty young, so I expect him to keep improving in this area as he gets older.

[GDT: Islanders @ Sabres, Oct. 21, 2023 - 7pm EDT, MSG 📺 WGR 📻]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

That is what they did last year. Their team defense wasn’t good but by having the puck for the majority of the time they outscored the opposition.

They don’t need a complete 180 to become a defensive machine, just own the puck and battle hard to get it back.

I want them to be better defensively by improving their positioning, attention to detail and competing for pucks. I don’t want to see them becoming a trap team.

To the bolded, they didn’t though, they didn’t outscore the opposition by doing that.  Some games they did, but on the whole they came out on the negative end.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

44 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

The Oilers DID win a cup after Wayne left.  In fact, it may have been the year he left.

This is correct.  It actually supports what Thorny was saying.  No player can drive a team all on their own.  Gretzky was incredible, but his supporting cast was so good that they won the Cup without him.

[Zach Benson, Devon Levi: day-to-day]

46 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Dude.  Not a good way to make friends around here.  Say what you want to say, but in a good way.

I don’t get what was wrong with the post.

[Zach Benson, Devon Levi: day-to-day]

7 hours ago, Quint said:

The Sabres have not addressed their goaltendng situation.(again) In Buffalo, they go with a hope and a prayer: Levi and the Usual Suspects. Weak defense and soft teams don't help but the Sabres are totally dependent on a goalie with less than ten NHL games on his resume with almost zero backup.

Now he's hurt and the genius Adams and whoever the anonymous GM is in Rochester, have been shamefully negligent. I am starting to detect really weak management here. 

Another possibility, maybe no goaltender worth his salt wants to come to the Buffalo Sabres organization because of their upside down approach to the game. It should be defense first.

Rochester Americans GM is Jason Karmanos.  FYI

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

It’s early so let me start there. 

But as I’ve posted post Calgary game, I’m starting to wonder if a lot of this is personnel not system. 

By that I mean, I think we have a core that plays fast offensive hockey. I don’t know that we need to change that so much as we need to do a better job filling in the gaps. 

I think we have to accept that even though they’re big Cozens and Thompson aren’t great two way players. And instead of having them shift their game, we need to help support their lines with more/better power forwards.

The defense needs a younger version of EJ to play up with Power. If Clifton can figure it out as the season progresses, that third line will be fine. Go move Kulich, Rosen, and RJ. Bring in guys like Mieir and/or Chychrun. (Just throwing out last years names)

We don’t need to change everybody’s game. They need to improve, sure. But they need help, not a makeover. We just need better supporting players for our stars. Last year we had a scoring line, a kid/prospect line, a middling line, and a defensive line. Instead of trying to make Thompson a different player just give him more help on the wing. Greenway - Cozens - Thompson was a great line, injured or not. 

 

Please do not call Ryan Johnson RJ.  It’s just way too soon.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

My fear is that since Adams didn't do enough in this off season we will burn yet another year. Rather than "win now" in the end they will end up saying some things like "learning experience". When the problems are so glaring and obvious it's frustrating not to see them addressed. 

I know that Adams/Granato have said things like that the past couple years, but they were pretty consistent throughout the whole season in those cases, stressing development/improvement.

This season they have shifted to stressing that they need to start winning.  They publicly set expectations.  I would hope that if they miss the playoffs, at the end of the season they don’t back track on that.  They would need to acknowledge it as a failure to meet expectations.

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is part of why I say "backwards". When have you seen this team exercise that sort of continual commitment? You have to build the team with these types of things first, not as an afterthought. 

This team?  As in this group of players?  Never, because they haven’t been together very long, they were purposely playing a transition offense heavy style, and they are very young.  I don’t think you can hold this group of players, coaches, and front office responsible for all the sins of the past 12 years.

I also disagree with your overall premise here.  I think that a kinda fast and loose, offense first team can definitely transition into being a more well rounded team with good defensive structure.  In fact, I think that is a quite common process of improvement.

NJ went through this kind of process. From 2021-22 through 2022-23.  Their offense came first and they made defensive improvements after.

Toronto too started off all offense, no defense several years ago and made big defensive improvements the past few years.

Tampa Bay definitely went through this too when their championship core was coming up around 2013-14.

Washington also famously did this over a period of a few years culminating in their cup win.

Im sure if I dug around more I could find other examples.  It may not be YOUR personal preferred way to develop a team, but I don’t think it’s automatically wrong or guarantees failure.

Interesting thing is that it looks like this defensive improvement sometimes goes hand in hand with a coaching change.  (Glances over at Granato, then quickly looks away)

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

58 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I didn't mean win it all with that. But dominate games or change the course of them yes. 

It’s just so subjective that you’ll never get a sizable group of people to agree on a definition.

Dominate games or change the course of them?  With what kind of consistency?

Tage Thompson can dominate games or change the course of them.  Dahlin can too.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

If it's NOT on the coaching then it's on the players, so your argument then is that these players can't/don't/won't do it. It's not like it's Granato's first season here (or there's). 

Too young. That part falls on KA. Building an all kid team. Folly from the start. 

I mean, I don’t have a problem with building an all kid team and giving all the young guys a chance during a rebuild/retool, but at some point you need to bolster them with some vets when you want to compete.  I fear that Adams didn’t add enough good veterans.

Not that the rebuild is doomed because of it, but it may take them longer to figure it out with fewer veterans to help them along.  And it might negatively impact the chances for playoffs this season.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

47 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

So there's a guy from outside the organization coming in and saying what some of us have been saying all off season so the question is why has the coaching staff not made that their priority in training camp? Ultimately this falls on the coach.

My guess would be that Granato is trying, but he has the youngest roster in the league.

I think it’s just taking some time.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

How about I say it this way simply, I would prefer to be wrong. 

I believe you.  I wish they were playing better too.

A season is long.  Most teams go through ups and downs.  I’m hopeful that they can get it turned around relatively quickly.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

20 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess you can take it that way but it's not what I want. I said years ago I thought their approach was wrong BUT also that I hoped I was wrong. I stressed that. 

What I want, the only thing I want, is for the Sabres to win. AND WIN A LOT. 

I'm just really disappointed after all the talk and hype about "time to win" that they have come out so flat and disorganized and unready to compete at a high level. The lack of team unity (on ice) is appalling. I look at the Philly games (I've watched their 2 home games) and there is a team with very little talent and supposedly they should all hate Torts by now and quit on him BUT they come out with fire, energy, resolve. They work their butts off and they get two wins at home. WHY aren't we like that? WHY????

I'm sick of it. I hate being right about this. Absolutely hate it. Maybe they turn it around, but this is not the way to start a season of so called "time to win". You start hard and fast like those other teams. Some or all of whom will falter later at some point due to depth or youth or lack of talent but the serious effort to be good is there at the start and that's all you can ask for. We do not have that. 

Take it that way?  I don’t know how else it could be interpreted.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

10 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To me, a superstar is a guy who can flip a game on his own and do that often. They elevate the players around them no matter who those players are as well. Can Pettersson do that on his own or does he need the supporting cast idk. I think it's too early to say he's a superstar. 

In terms of definition, I'd ask you this. Is there a current Sabre who you would call a superstar?

By your definition, no, definitely not.  Dahlin and Thompson are closest but need more consistency.

How many superstars are there in the league then, like 5?

Thats fine, it’s a word without a set definition.  He isn’t a superstar then, just a star.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fair. My response prob a little too on the nose re my expected content 

I’d say you are objectively correct where your point is concerned: it’s always driven me nuts but the game quite literally becomes a different one in the playoffs. I literally avoid talking about it out of some sort of “out of sight out of mind” positioning because it truly is a daunting thought 

I get it.  I mostly agree when it comes to worrying about “blocking” young guys with good veterans who could improve the team, or worrying about using too much assets to acquire a good player.  But when it comes to playing a high quality, more efficient style of hockey, yeah, I want them to learn to do that.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I refuse to set my expectation beyond making the playoffs. To me aiming for higher is hubris, where this franchise is concerned. I linked a post yesterday I made from 2021 where I proposed a theory re: the potential poisoning of this type of thinking: but deleted it, as it’s too early. But it’s still on my mind 

Haha, I knew you feel this way, which is why I prefaced my statement.

It’s true, there is danger to thinking too long term.  It’s just the next logical step in improving team performance though.  It’s the next set of tactics that the team needs to become proficient in.  In my opinion.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

It’s a race, and it’s an interesting calculation, I think, as well: how quickly can they sort out the D to a reasonable level, and, particularly given the fact the roster hasn’t changed: how much offence relative to last year ends up getting sacrificed in pursuit of said D. Particularly relative to all the career years we saw last year. And when comparing and contrasting the two, is it a zero sum game, or does it allow for a net gain to the tune of bridging the gap we needed to, to make the playoffs?

pretty fascinating 

Yeah, and I’m kind of thinking slightly beyond the point of making the playoffs (dangerous, I know, but hear me out).

Maybe they could squeak into the playoffs playing just like they did last season l, but we kind of know that when you are playing only good teams, and the officiating changes a bit, that style of going all out for transition offense doesn’t really work in the playoffs.  This is an adjustment that they will need to make.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

My original quote was that he is under-rated. That doesn't mean he is going to be passing Matthews and McDavid for league MVP. Superstar? To me if you are a top 10 scorer in the league AND you are very exciting to watch at the same time, then yes, you are becoming a superstar. I think Pettersson is on that path now for sure.

Agree.  I wasn’t making any point regarding anything you said.  I was just following up on a conversation that Perrault and I had a couple days ago.

[Sabres ticket sales still pretty dismal]

On 10/18/2023 at 12:16 PM, Taro T said:

 

Unless it's a sellout, or close to one, they've been very reluctant in recent years to give the attendance figure while people are at the game.  Box scores used to give the paid attendance, maybe they still do.  (Haven't looked that closely at one in a long time.)  So, answers to your Q's would be: 1. a win in OT; 2. No; 3. No data but the 10-11k sold is a reasonable guess as a lot of seats that are probably held by STHers were empty.  Personally, estimated the actual attendance at somewhere between 8-9k.  (Just a smidge below 50% full.)

Attendance reported in box score is 13,025.

[Erik Johnson sends a clear message postgame "until we have a commitment to team defense, we won’t accomplish much"]

I also heard these comments and thought they were very on the nose.  Needed to be said.  It’s part of why he is here.

I think when he first took over, Granato’s focus was young player development, building confidence and getting the team going offensively.  Now they are putting more focus on improving their team defense.  At the moment it looks like they are struggling with integrating it into their game.  I think they will get there.  How quickly they get it together will determine whether they make the playoffs.  It’s a long season and most teams go through ups and downs, they have a little time.

[Don Granato the Worm Tongue and the Culture of Losing]

49 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

When comparing Peca's coaching history to Rod Brind'Amour's, It took Rod 7 years in the Hurricanes organization before he became head coach.  Starting in 2012, Michael has spent 2 years with Jr. Sabers and was coach of the year, head coach of the Major Jr. Sabers, and GM of hockey ops for Jr. Sabres.  Worked as Capitals player development coach and Amerks assistant coach.  As we all know, in 2023, he is now with the Rangers as a bench coach.

Based on Rod the Bod's history and Peca's I believe he is ready to make that jump to HC in the NHL.

 

Brind'Amour was an NHL Assistant Coach for 7 years before becoming an NHL HC.

Peca has been HC in a 2nd tier junior league for 2 years, an NHL player development coach for half a season, and an AHL Assistant Coach for 2 seasons, and now an actual NHL job as an Assistant Coach this season.

Do you honestly think that those two resumes of experience look equivalent?

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:31 AM, PerreaultForever said:

and yet, Philly shut him down totally tonight and shook him up a little as well. Very good player, yes. Superstar? Hmmm, not so sure. 

Elias Pettersson with 2 more points tonight.  8 points in his first 4 games.  I think this guy is becoming a super duper star.

Very good player?  Yes.  Superstar?  Depends on your definition.

[Around the NHL 2023-24 Season]

48 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hey, guess what? We're currently dead last in the East. Can't wait for those draft lottery threads.

Meanwhile Philly is leading the Metropolitan (yes, I know this won't last) cause, well, Torts is a dinosaur who doesn't get modern hockey and the Bruins, despite playing pretty poorly are undefeated. Yzerplan that so many of you mocked a feeble 3 and 1 to start. 

Are you really taking a gloating victory lap after game 4 of 82?

Personally I think it’s a bit early to be trying to shove it in everyones’ face how right you are.