DeleteThisAccount
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Just now, LGR4GM said:
There's that condescension again. "you miss the point but that is to be expected." It is perfectly legit for anyone reading anything to question where that information is coming from. If that bothers you so much as a journalist than the problem lies with you. Why should I not wonder where you are getting your information from and why that information was given to you? Why should I not verify your information?
As a read I should get multiple sources and perspectives not just one, do you not agree?
What am I supposed to trust? Your sources? You? So again you are back to saying you cannot be questioned and shut up and trust you. I read your article. There were several issues with it but whatever, no one is perfect. I then moved on only to find you here basically saying that I am required to trust everything you say because "but that's to be expected as you attempt to politicize this discussion." I am not politicizing anything. I work in a field that literally requires me to evaluate information sources and believe that ppl should do that even for things like you.
What else you got? Because honestly you missed my point entirely or at least breezed over it.
Did I say that? Did I demand that you trust everything I say.
Please point out exactly where I wrote that, bubba.
Or did you -- in the cool game of accusing me of you doing the exact same thing -- simply skim over my last post and cherry pick what you thought you read?
jw
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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
I am not asking for his sources. I am saying it is legitimate as a reader to question or consider who those sources are.
The AP has strict policies on sourcing, limiting it to people having direct knowledge of the situation, and not provide opinion.
You obviously believe there's something more nefarious going on.
And yes, you are asking for my sources by questioning their legitimacy. You can't have it both ways.
Trust me, don't trust me, but at the very least check my track record.
jw
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On 6/16/2020 at 12:21 PM, nfreeman said:
So, in a quest for fairness, I went back and read @john wawrow's posts over the years.
It's certainly true that a couple of posters -- in particular @Hoss and @Ghost of Dwight Drane -- took a number of shots at him, and I can totally understand him thinking "I don't need this aggravation from these DBs." In the board's defense, I will note that those posters aren't really a representative sample of the broader membership -- both of them had serious problems interacting with others. One has been permanently banned, while the other has been suspended more than any other poster.
I think it's also true that JW didn't exactly react to the shots he took with a jocular, devil-may-care sense of good humor -- and when a number of other posters (including me at one point) noted a certain thin-skinnedness, JW got more PO'd and lashed back. Understandable, perhaps, but also unnecessary and probably not his finest moments.
Bottom line, IMHO is that on the one hand, I think everyone here would like to have JW as a poster and a resource, and most here respect JW's work, while from time to time disagreeing with or doubting certain items that might be reported. On the other hand, though, it is inevitable that on a message board, someone will from time to time say the wrong thing -- i.e. something that from JW's perspective can be reasonably viewed as disrespectful or obnoxious. In those situations, I would hope that JW would let the offending post go by without getting worked up about it.
Of course, it's up to him whether participating in the discussion here and getting feedback, story ideas, etc. from a devoted (and IMHO quite knowledgeable) portion of the fan base is worth the aggravation.
I'm guessing this was the post i was supposed to read in being invited back for a third time.
call it thin-skinned if you like, but i think you hit the nail on the head with your other observation in what's really the point of putting up with the aggravation of having to defend myself every time i post in the face of people questioning my sources, calling out my work as being filled with "whoppers" or reporting posts that essentially quoted my entire story, thus violating this board's rules when it comes to copyrights.
at the very least, on TBD, i've established a rapport with some of the posters, and feel i have some protection when the unfair attacks come.
here, it's just piling on.
jw
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On 6/16/2020 at 9:22 AM, LGR4GM said:
Describe something positive for this team that isn't Eichel or Dahlin that has occurred in the last two years.
Now to the second bolded. It is a readers job, no responsibility to question the sources of a news report. If the United States as a whole took the time more often to question where information is coming from we would be a lot better off. We should always question your sources and that of any reporter so we as readers can understand where and why that information was created and released. I take extreme offense at the idea readers shouldn't question sources, it is actually something readers should be doing more not less.
I get a twitter message to check back in, and give this a third shot, and yet what do i find at first glance.
and here we go again. uou miss the entire point, but that's to be expected as you attempt to politicize this discussion.
i'm quite confident i've established my reputation in Buffalo for more than 20 years of breaking news on various fronts, Sabres and Bills related.
rather than being rewarded with some semblance of trust, i get this.
but of course that wasn't my point at all. the point was my previous encounters on this message board involved people essentially believing that Larry Quinn was my only source. And then it was Russ Brandon.
both have been long gone, and yet i am still breaking news on various fronts.
do the math.
jw
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5 hours ago, Eleven said:
I am a big defender of John Wawrow and always will be, but this is a very accurate critique of what happened here.
John, if you're reading this: We know that you have access to facts that we don't. We also value your presence here. But if you're here, you're JAG like the rest of us--albeit a more informed JAG. Still, we have conversations here. Mostly polite conversations; sometimes not so much. Conversations require give and take.
I left here 2 or so years ago because of all the negativity.
There was no welcomeness then, and neither is there any now.
This board has constantly, constantly -- stress constantly -- disparaged my work, questioned my sources, questioned whether I had sources, believed my only source was Larry Quinn, and now stoops to the level of calling out my latest story as being filled with "whoppers."
That's a big word, and really the last straw on my part to engaging in any semblance of an open discussion or give and take.
It was like this when I first joined, only to quickly find out there was little desire on anyone's part to engage in anything of merit.
And, upon revisiting this place last week, I see very little has changed.
If my tone, as some put it, is condescending or arrogant, well, it's only because that's a lot of what's been directed at me over the years.
So if I put off a bunch of people here, big whup. It's not like those same people provided me an ounce of respect to begin with.
jw
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I'll reiterate my stance that this site has consistently been over-run by the few, and provides little value, because it has inevitably become a place of condemnation rather than one for discussion or enlightenment.
It's the reason I unsuccessfully asked a few years ago to have my account deactivated, because the discourse here quickly leans toward the toxic, with a prevailing few bullying the narrative into shape.
I'll agree that I made an honest mistake in citing Forbes as the Sabres listed as having $1.9 million in operating profit in 2018-19, as opposed to "revenue."
That said, to conflate these into "whoppers" as alleged by the original poster is but another example of how the supposed discourse here is narrowed and twisted into a few people's point of view, and anyone questioning it is dismissed.
There appears to be no place for contrarian or alternate views, and unlike at TwoBillDrive, where there is healthy discourse, little oversight in how posters are disparaged.
Good luck and I hope you all continue enjoying your circle-jerk exercise.
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9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:
How come? You don't know what you're doing.
Couple of whoppers from Wawrow:
Surely, they didn't spend hundreds of millions on the arena PLUS all the rest. John knows this.
Kim is the third team president. Black, Brandon, Kim Pegula. Ted Black was team president when Pat was hockey president. John knows this.
Kim isn't a football president. John knows this.
Ah, one of the posters, who gave me good reason not to come here all that often, attempting to correct me, and once again failing. It's laughable, and sad, as well that this poster uses his or her bully pulpit position here to sway the narrative and make non-sensensical posts such as this to drive people away.
Each of the rare times I visit, PASabresFan has one post after the other, complaining about this and that.
So, here goes:
1. When you work in Harborcenter, which has become an extension of the arena, and serves as the Sabres practice facility, the Pegulas have spent hundreds of millions on arena upgrades, and constructing a hockey/hotel/entertainment complex as noted in the story.
2. Kim is the fourth team president, which includes LaFontaine, wh's title was, in fact, president, which was also noted in the story.
3. Let me open the Bills media guide to Kim Pegula's bio, where it lists her title as, oh, look at that, "Owner/President."
Of all the erroneous and dim-witted posts you've posted, this one reaches a new low -- that said, others might be able to produce dumber examples, but like I said, I don't visit much here, nor have the time to feel even more stupid by reading more posts from this person.
jw
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On 6/4/2020 at 10:10 PM, nfreeman said:
Well, it's entirely in TG's interest to tout the no-move clause and it's also in the interest of LQ and local politicians -- who are good candidates for being JW's other sources (assuming there were any). If @john wawrow read the contract himself and saw the clause, I'd love for him to say so here. Otherwise I'm quite skeptical.
I don't think you asked the question nicely, so I refuse to respond.
jw
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On 2/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, Broken Ankles said:
It makes no sense whatsoever. Tim Murray reported in to PLT and it was assumed that PLT would be involved in all aspects of what a GM does (UFA signings, trades, etc). PLT was not close to what was happening in the amateur leagues and TM was seen as a scouting guru. PLT hired TM because he was lacking and felt TM could improve this shortcoming in the scouting department. I can see where you hope your supervisor fails at something, so you can move up one rung, but not the other way around. Patty was a defacto GM at the time he left. Whatever disagreements he had were at a level higher than him, not lower.
Tim Murray reported to Terry, or at least that was established during the less than two months Tim and Pat were together.
jw
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You really need to all cap that shiznit, John.
AP SPORTS WRITER.
Maybe even tweak it thusly:
AP SPORTS WRITER, MOTHERFU#KERS!!
Now I sorta wish you’d hang around. Your shtick is moving from sad through to amusing.
if the only way i'm going to get off this board is to get kicked off it, then sure, when it appears there appear to be no consequences from at least one moderator when it comes to what people tweet.
this is the , i've come to know on this board, which seems to lack much differing of opinion than those who seem to post the most or drive the narrative such as the ghost of dwight drane did in the past or now this clown.
good for you. a message board is only as good as the worst people on it. or those moderating it.
it sure seems like freeman is open to having an anything goes approach to what he assumes to be moderating.
good for him or her.
i don't have to like it.
and it's why i want nothing to do with this site.
maybe, just maybe, i'll get banned for calling out a moderator.
jw
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FWIW, my mailbox was indeed full. I've now deleted some stuff and made room in case anyone needs to PM me.
11, like always, was much more of a gentleman than I was, but I too wish JW good luck in his personal and professional endeavors.
I will also agree with 11 that JW could've gotten much more out of the board and given much more to the board than he did. There is a ton of knowledgeable hockey talk here. JW could've used some of the observations made and questions raised here in his work, which would've improved its quality.
For our part, I think most here would've appreciated the opportunity to have an ongoing dialogue with a guy who is around the team a lot and presumably has knowledge to share.
Instead, JW chose to repeatedly engage in weird, over-sensitive late-night beefing with various members. Not sure why, but there we are.
rightly or wrongly, and i'm entitled to my opinion, the common theme when it came to me was: he is Larry Quinn" and eventually Russ Brandon's mouthpiece, he doesn't break any news. or when he does, he's simply getting it from Quinn or Brandon.
what point, then, is it to even bother posting, when all i was doing was spending time here defending my reputation.
sure, i didn't put much effort into it. but i certainly didn't get much back either except for questions and snark.
you, as a moderator, are in part responsible for that, too. and to pile on as you did in this thread earlier, was essentially the last straw.
it's clear i've overstayed my welcome.
proceed with your narratives.
jw
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Did he really throw a temper tantrum about a couple of people here speculating as to his sources and announce his departure without ever contributing anything useful or interesting?
Is it any wonder that local WNY media literally never have good inside information about either the Bills or the Sabres?
It's a bunch of incompetents jealously and spitefully defending their rapidly shrinking turf.
Since I can't send you, a moderator, a private message because your account is not accepting messages, I'll share this with the board.
As it seems the moderators are now piling on, I really have no reason to continue being a member of this board, which pales in comparison to that of TwoBillsDrive.
If there is any way you can deactivate my account, please do so.
Thanks in advance,
Sincerely,
John Wawrow, AP sports writer.
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Guys like Wawrow deal with the worst of the Internet on a daily basis and for some, it unfortunately seems to bleed into all their online communications. Sabrespace is not Twitter and never has been.
The attitude you inspire has a lot to do with the attitude you bring.
here's all i know, when i occasionally peruse this board and, at times, name-check my name.
a few accounts here often pop up with the very same old axiom about me and my sources.
first it was Larry Quinn. Now it's Russ Brandon.
if that's what some thing, they couldn't be more wrong.
and yet, the notions and generalizations persist.
let this be my last post, as it's quite seemingly evident that whatever it is some of you think of me will never change.
no point proceeding on.
see ya.
jw
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You’re a sad fella. Or, at least, you come off as one.
at the very least my name's on my postings.
you're a one-trick pony in anonymity.
jw
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John, do you honestly not know who your audience is? Wild speculation and narratives is kinda what we do here. It is an internet messege board after all. You could have just been a grown up and set the poster straight on what actually happened, instead of getting all butt hurt and drunk dialing late night.
i did that for the benefit of my audience, i thought.
jw
What's your take on the Pegula organization touting the whole "man of faith" mantra recently? Pegula mentioned it when he hired McDermott and that guy (McDermott) seems to pimp his faith every chance he gets in press conferences. When Taylor got benched for Peterman they seemed to pump up what a man of faith he was before his train wreck of a first game and AJ McCarron is covered in religious tats. Do you get the sense that faith plays a significant role in the decision making process with the Bills and/or Sabres?
Are any of the quarterback's expected to be drafted in the 1st round this year particularly Jesusy? At this point I expect them to draft the most religious one but I don't do social media (other than team message boards) so I don't have the patience/desire to figure out how to e-stalk these guys on twitter/facebook/Instagram or whatever to try to figure it out.
Not sure.
Faith is something i deal with involving a lot of athletes and coaches. I do know the Pegulas are deeply religious, though they don't often discuss it.
Some people wear it on their sleeves (or get tatted up), and others don't.
I prefer to keep what I believe in private for the most part.
I wouldn't think religion will or should play any more of a significant factor in determining what player to sign/draft or coach to hire than what a person's favorite band might be. And I don't mean that to be a knock against religion at all.
What I'm attempting to say is people of the same religion have something they can share in common and discuss, no different than if you might like The Replacements.
All that said, no matter what you believe in, arm strength, accuracy and leadership qualities should be first and foremost on how a quarterback is judged.
Can't recall the last time I've had a chat with Terry or Kim and religion has come up. Same goes with Beane and Botterill. And I have no problem when others mention it. In fact, I noted UB women's coach Felisha Legette-Jack's faith in a piece i wrote last week about her.
I've dealt with religion less so on the NHL front. Can't really remember the last time it has come up in conversation.
Not sure if any of this answers your question. Those are simply my observations on the subject.
jw
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I suspect he found the thread by Googling/searching for his (last) name.
I’d thought for a while that he was a solid guy, but have come to conclude that he’s a self-serious, self-important capital J sports journo out of print media central casting.
You just have to swap out Springsteen for The Replacements.
I wrote him off completely when he joined Harrington in dragging that blogger guy for his Lehner report.
me, too. that guy's an ass.
and all he does is work as Russ Brandon's mouthpiece.
it's outrageous all the things he gets correct. i mean, the nerve of the guy challenging an erroneous report and calling it out for being fake.
how dare he do journalism.
terrible. just terrible.
jw
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Hey, can you ask somebody from the Sabres what happens if the Sharks re-sign Kane but miss the playoffs next year? Nobody has yet and we're all still confused last I checked.
good point. will hopefully get that clarified in next few weeks.
jw
oh, wait, let me call russ. (eye-roll gif)
;)
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His “Hmmm’s” on Twitter, though.
Brandon is pretty clearly someone who will speak through Wawrow, at times, right?
I guess that’s different than a source, come to think of it.
i love this narrative that it's Russ. it has to be Russ, right? how could it not be.
and if some fans can't get this right, why would i ever expect these same few fans to get much of anything right.
keep throwing that spaghetti at the wall and see if it sticks
good lord. give it up.
jw
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Link to latest version of AP Story:
jw
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This just made everything ten times worse. Me responding to you is making a mistake because, due to your mildly well-known name as a reporter, everybody will back you up...
But your report makes absolutely no sense. You say McKenzie has a good lay of the land regarding the Sabres/Stamkos discussion. Bob comes back DIRECTLY TO YOU and tells you he isn't saying anything about a Sabres/Stamkos discussion. It was essentially a game show. Based on your brief breakdown of the discussion a more appropriate tweet would've excluded any connection from the Sabres to Stamkos as nothing related to the Sabres was being reported by McKenzie. Your tweet indicates that what he said on TSN was an example of his grasp on the situation surrounding Stamkos AS IT RELATES TO THE SABRES.
I'm sure Bob McKenzie has as good a grasp on Stamkos as anybody outside of Stamkos' life and Tampa Bay.
Also nobody here said you said it was a done deal. Don't get your Twitter battles mixed up with what's going on here. The person that persistently claimed you did was a fool for doing so and your badgering/quote tweet bullying of him only made him look more foolish.
The initial tweet is irrelevant to the discussion because the discussion is specifically about the Bob McKenzie tweet. And you say you only credited Bob because he started the conversation but then the conversation you represented in your post is exclusively about Bob McKenzie.
I think you missed on this one.
And your long attack on GoDD probably would've gotten a suspension at least for many. But I don't actually think you'd be banned. My comment was about somebody saying my post about you could be ban worthy. Neither of us should be banned for our comments, but if one of us would be the other certainly crossed whatever imaginary line is drawn.
I value you as a reporter in Buffalo sports. One of the very select few I think has legitimate sources and is willing to go to the dirty places for a small scoop (I know this to be true). But I think you're just as grumpy as the rest and far too condescending/defensive with those who know far less than you. It's a big world with a lot of people. There are few shared experiences between certain people so shaming them on twitter by making their ignorance public instead of just ignoring it is wrong.
the fact that Stamkos and Sabres continues to be a topic of discussion some four months later leads me to believe that the discussion i had with my source was accurate.
jw
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This would be curious. Does Kane have a friend who uses his car? The hospital initiated the investigation based on evidence they found and the evidence led them to Kane and his vehicle.
was told it's standard procedure for police to get search warrant on accused's residence and vehicle. ... as for the investigation, it's currently on a far backburner that's frustrated people in Kane's camp as to why it hasn't been dropped. all indications are there's no evidence of wrong-doing. but until the DA comes out and officially announces it, this thing is technically not over.
jw
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Boooo. I just got my 2nd beer too.
slowpoke. i'm on my fourth.
jw
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I don't understand where you're coming from here. I was settling on a point and saying I appreciated how you handled this, not anything near calling you a dick. The conversation was mostly civil considering our level of disagreement. We disagree. It happens. It doesn't mean you're being a dick. Or even that I am (I know I was as I believe you were on Twitter).
I was certainly being unfair in the "mediocre" comment. I apologize for that. Uncalled for and untrue. If either of us is mediocre it's me but I haven't approached that level yet.
fair enough.
jw
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Interesting, before this season i would have thought that wasn't in the realm of possibility, but I haven't like his game this year. But that's to be said of too many Sabres.
i'm hearing you're not the only one who hasn't liked Pysyk's game.
jw
Kim Pegula returning next season- Kim Pegula
in The Aud Club
Posted
(but you'd be happier if you knew who my sources were, given how team hirings/firings and player signings/releases -- all factually based happenings -- have biases).
how do you spend all this time posting here, given all the time you have to spend each day re-confirming the world isn't flat and that it revolves around the sun?
jw