seer775
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Posts posted by seer775
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2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:
We traded away our 2C for a younger 1C and a defenseman (plus some garbage). While it seemed to be the worst trade ever at first, in total it's really not that bad. Unless you don't like Thompson as a top center.
If you think of it like Thompson/D - ROR in 2024, sure it's a good deal. The return prior to '20/'21 was a fat nothing.
I'd still rather have ROR (MVP) than Thompson (two solid seasons), but that's me.
And sure, it's a what-if game with ROR because he didn't want to be in Buffalo, but our boys are getting older.........................................................
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1 hour ago, shrader said:
Data? So do you think all those player for draft pick deals at each deadline, both teams are expecting immediate impact?
The blues got their impact. We sold our 1C and got another one a handful of years later.
Result? Down a top C for years on years. Bad trade.
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Bad: Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Montour, Bogo/Kane, Staal, Foligno, Deslauriers.
Worse: firing coaches for half a decade.
Good: Risto, Greenway.
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11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Yea, because Yzerman is not trading Seider. It just isn't happening. And no, we got more for Eichel (3 1sts and a 2nd). The ROR trade was garbage and should be used for the basis of nothing.
Drysdale was traded yesterday so he isn't getting traded again. Which Miller? There's like 4 I can think of. None of the guys you listed Romanov, Hague, and Miller am I inclined to trade a 1st and a 2nd and a prospect for. That's my own personal taste, especially when our 2024 1st is going to be in top 10 in a very defense heavy draft. Romanov is worth a 2nd and maybe a B prospect like Polatpov or something. Hague same thing. I am going to guess Miller is K'andre Miller and that is a player I think is worth what you are suggesting.
Correct.
Again, each of those players is better than Bouchard, Seider, and Hughes.
Anyone can be traded. Stevie Y knows this. He was no stranger to making bold moves for players while he was the TBL GM (Sergachev, for example).
Yes it will cost a lot for anyone worthwhile. But that's the whole point of making the trade in the first place. Doing whatever it takes to get a solid top 4 Dman that we can keep for a while, without giving away everything, is a priority for this club.
Jordan Greenway is not the solution to making the playoffs this year or the next. A competent defense is. That means anything and everything is on the table, especially pending UFAs.
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15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Why should a team with every single guy in their top 9 under 26 accept Skinner want more picks when they still have Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, and Rose, Wahlberg, Strbak, Novikov, etc... in their prospect pool, why? What in hell does ditching Greenway so we have a 2nd and a 3rd do for us? Don't say for a trade because I can use Buffalo's 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2024 right now for that without doing anything. You can literally package those picks already because we have them with Greenway for example for someone of value.
Also for the love of zeus's caboose, next time you mention trading for Moritz Seider I am going to call for you to be banned, Connor McDavid is more likely to be traded than Seider. Im sorry do I see Luke Hughes now as well? Holy crap man this isn't even borderline realistic. You wanna know what a Seider trade looks like... Owen Power, Jiri Kulich, One of (Peterka/Quinn/Cozens/Benson) and a 2nd (because Yzerman loves that kid and it is their #1 defender). Hard pass. You listing "A 1st, 2nd, and a prospect is the max reasonable payout." is insane. Wookie wouldn't even suggest that for Seider, Hughes, or Bouchard. I get these are just names you are tossing out but find realistic ones. Corson Ceulemans is a realistic RFA guy you could trade a 2nd and prospect for, not Mortiz Seider. Yzerman would crawl over broken glass while on fire to keep Seider on his team.
You put up two 1sts and two 2nds for a first. That's insanity. We got less back for Sam Reinhart, Jack Eichel, and ROR who are better players than Seider, Hughes, and Bouchard.
Work it down the list if those targets aren't available. Romanov, Hague, Miller, Drysdale. They're all pretty decent and no way they cost two 1sts and two 2nds. Max 1 first, a second, and a prospect.
10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:You wanna know why I think we should use the other assets we have and not Greenway to find a top 4 defender? Because we need Greenway in our top 12 and I am sick of trading NHL players for future maybes and a 2nd round pick has about a 20% chance to be an NHL player, just a player, let alone as good as Greenway can be.
We should keep Greenway and try to make the playoffs next year. Considering he isn't on the market as the OP claims in their title and it is just Vancouver writers picking guys they want, I am not concerned about this.
He really isn't that good. I think you are overvaluing a guy who can easily be replaced for less, and who likely isn't resigning. It would be a smart value move to get something for him now (if) someone will overpay.
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1 hour ago, Marvin said:
What is your definition of "decent" picks? I think that you are under-selling him for that price.
I would rather add more Greenway types than subtract them. Indeed, I would be looking at nearly NHL-ready prospects who play a Greenway type game so that injuries don't hurt as much next season. I am also loath to trade Greenway on one end and obtain a lesser player on the other end.
No one is selling a top 4 RHD for a player and prospect unless he is a UFA. I don't think that is feasible.
It'd have to be more than a 2nd and a 5th, because that's what we got him for. So maybe a 2nd and a 3rd, or two 2nds.
What're the odds we get that top 4 dman under RFA (replacing Joker) if we overpay just a little bit? That's the other key piece. How many picks and prospects would a Byram cost (or a Seider, Bouchard, Luke Hughes, Romanov, Hague, Miller, Drysdale)? A first, 2nd and a prospect is the max reasonable payout. Then, we have to sign a couple Fs for grit (for Greenway, KO/Girgs) (like Martin, Clutterbuck, Lucic, Maroon, etc) plus another solid D for EJ (maybe Clifton) UFA in the offseason.
If that isnt possible, keep Greenway and try your luck signing an F (mentioned) and one or two Dmen in the upcoming UFA market (Tanev, Hanifin, Barrie, OEL, Gostisbehere, Montour) or the next (Chycrun, Provorov, Schmidt, Theodore, Gavrikov, Pionk, Orlov, Ekblad).
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11 minutes ago, Marvin said:
If Canucks fans are to be believed, they think that Vancouver won't overpay. Their assumption is that Buffalo is looking for picks and projects. No top 4 RHD, gritty forwards, or Thatcher Demko. Currently available players and prospects do not interest me one jot.
Welcome back!
If they don't overpay, don't sell. It won't be an NHL player because they're gunning for the playoffs and they need someone big before the deadline.
Let's say we get two decent picks from Greenway. Great. Sign one or two hulk UFAs on short term in the offseason (Martin, Lucic, Clutterbuck, Maroon, etc). Package the picks and a player/prospect for a one or two top 4 Dmen.
Profit.
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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
The point of keeping greenway is to win hockey games.
More so to protect the young guys.
I do like him as a player. He brings grit to our team (which we don't have) and he can become our pk specialist (which sucks bigtime).
Moving him requires that we get something very good back. The assumption is that the Canucks are willing to overpay us. If so, it makes sense because we get more value added. Plus, we might turn around and re-sign him once he's a UFA.
If we do move him, we will have to replace his grit and toughness, which we should already be looking into (bye KO, Girgs). Big strong, slow forwards are a dime a dozen in the UFA market, and we can find a few if we look hard enough.
It's purely a value move.
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10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
We don't have anyone to bring in! That's the freaking point. Kulich is probably the only ready NHL player we could reasonably count on next season. But if we keep Greenway that means if Kulich stumbles or sucks, you just put Greenway back on the 3rd line because he's a 3rd line penalty killing forward. Or if someone gets injured, well at least we got Greenway kids to slide up that lineup.
There is no "bunch to keep" because they are all signed, why don't you understand that? There is no one to bring in that plays his game. Why don't you get that?
No we don't. That's the point, wtf are we going to do with another 3rd round pick and Team X's 7th best prospect who would be are 15th best prospect.
There must be teams that are willing to spend on him to make a playoff run.
He is a big man who can play a little pk. The size can come from the new Defense which we are pretty much desperate for.
6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:A few more bullets? Are you mad? The dude has a .50 cal with a 100 round box mag. Sabres have 6 picks in 2024 including in rounds 1-4. They have 9 picks in 2025 including an extra 4th and 7th rounder. They have a prospect list that I will just rough out... Kulich, Savoie, Östlund, Wahlberg, Strbak, McCarthy, Neuchev, Novikov, Rosen, Kisakov, Lindgren, Komarov. What on earth does Adams need to get a top 4 defender he doesn't already have. In fact I would bet money that packaging Greenway and one of the mentioned players here would get you further than trading Greenway for a 3rd, 5th and a teams Wahlberg equivalent.
Okay, if that's the case, go for it.
The point of moving Greenway is to get value back on him before he leaves, and use that to improving the defense. How you might go about doing that is subjective.
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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Unless I do this for 5v5 and then it isn't. 0.8p60 for Boqvist and 1.0p60 5v5 for Jokiharju. Boqvist will not be getting PP time in Buffalo so you are better off taking those 5v5 numbers.
Here you want to use corsi?
Boqvist: 48.1
Joker: 49.7
What about xgf%
Boqvist: -2
Joker: 0.6
What are we doing here? You can trade Joker for Boqvist, I don't actually care but they are basically the same player. It doesn't move the needle.
Fair enough. There are better players to trade for. Boqvist is low hanging fruit. With a bit more ambition and a few more bullets in the magazine KA can try for someone better.
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5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Omg, this is annoying. Stop for a second.
Jordan Greenway is only signed through next season at 3million dollars. After that his contract ends. Jack Quinn, JJP, Devon Levi, Ryan Johnson are all signed through next season as well so NO ONE gives a ***** about Greenway's 3 million bucks because it literally has no impact on any of those listed players. Krebs is going to get his qualifying offer and that's probably about it for his raise. Mitts can probably ask for 8mil if he wants but again, that fits under the cap easy and has no impact on keeping jordan greenway next year or signing any of the other listed players after next year. Stop spouting nonsense about having to pay players that are not up for new deals so we have to trade away Jordan Greenway. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sabres
If this ***** team is still rebuilding next year, I hope Adams and the lot of them are shipped to Siberia with Terry Pegula leading the way.
Lol. It's about getting value on a player who is a UFA when we have a bunch of talent/picks to protect before we improve the roster.
It's not a huge deal if he stays or goes, but we get more back if we move him now versus letting him eat minutes on the 4th line.
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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Bruh (lol), you wanna know why Boqvist is at 0.43ppg and Joker is at 0.25ppg? Because you tell us with your very first sentence.
Adam Boqvist, pts per 60: 1.2p/60 (2023)
Henri Jokiharju, pts per 60: 0.9p/60 (2023)
Boqvist gets more TOI and probably some better opportunities, in fact Jokihajru is actually higher at 5v5 pts/60 this season and was barely below Boqvist last year. Again, you can do this but that trade is basically Jokiharju and a 4th for Boqvist.
An improvement nonetheless. We need better Defenseman to take the pressure off Dahlin and Power. They'll almost certainly play better as a result.
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14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
LOL what? What does this even mean. The Sabres are 16million under the cap right this second, we need more for what? Our top 6 forwards are all signed through next year, every single one of them. Our top 4 defense is all signed through next year as well and we would still have money left over if we were to acquire a top 4 defender because again we have MILLIONS in cap space and will again next year. This makes no sense at all. The guy is 3mil on the cap next year when we will have 25million in cap with only 1 important RFA to sign and no UFAs we have to keep. You are spending 1mil on any 4th liner you bring in anyway so you are literally arguing we have to trade Greenway because we will need 2mil in cap space for ... what?
To sign a UFA dman, RFA dman, and have room for Quinn, Mitts, JJP, Krebs, two goalies, and protect our top picks and prospects.
That 4th liner is only going to be with us briefly, playing fourth line minutes and pk.
Spend the money and assets on players that are going to make a difference on the team. I.e top 4 D. Now is the perfect time to move Greenway for value where we are heavy in guys that can Crack a roster spot in a year or two.
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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Bruh.
80 / 188 = 0.43 pts/gm,
76 / 307 = 0.25 pts/gm.
Boqvist plays #3 minutes. Joker is at best a 4th Dman on our team.
He's at least twice the player Joker is. And he's younger.
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1 minute ago, Taro T said:
No Schlitz, Sherlock. A significant portion of that cap space will be gone then, but the cap will also be significantly higher then too. So, worry about that in 2 years. Greenway is only under contract through next season so ramifications on the cap 2 years from now have little bearing on a potential Greenway deal today. Having a $3MM 4th liner (should they make a move to put a goal scorer on Mittelstadt's line) is NOT an issue to be concerned about. Right NOW cap space is an asset that the Sabres can use whether it be retaining salary on a deal shipping Olofsson out the door or taking in some other team's overpaid soon to be UFA. Just because Adams hasn't used that asset the past 2 years doesn't mean he must not use it again this year.
You gain cap space and assets by moving Greenway who is about to be a UFA anyways.
Let's make room for our top 6 F, top 4 D, and goalies before we start thinking of overpaying for 4th liners.
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8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Okay, show me some type of proof other than your word.
You are right we will need to sign or trade for a defender this offseason.
I am not sure this board would be happy about Kulich, 3rd round pick in 2024, and Strbak for Byram.
Packaging Greenway to trade for a legit #3/4 defender is a good idea, trading Greenway for some picks and prospects because we might be able to flip those in some future deal for said #3/4 defender is a bad idea. We already have the ammunition to trade for a #3/4 defender without ditching a 3rd line winger who has value due to their PK and defensive abilities. Columbus is going to have to trade a defender at some point, probably this offseason for example. Calgary will probably be trading pieces at the deadline or offseason. I have no issue with getting a #3/4 defender but trading Greenway for some stuff is a waste of assets when he actually is useful to the team.
Boqvist is a bottom 4 Dman. Joker is an AHL player.
That would be a great deal. We'd still have Östlund, Rosen, Rousek, and Savoie and we'd have a promising Dman in Byram under RFA.
I'm not sure what kind of Dman you can fetch with one or two picks, but it won't be a good deal.
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3 minutes ago, Taro T said:
Both of which they already have in spades. So why would they need to trade away Greenway to get an extra (presumably) late 1st (if he'd even bring that back; he didn't cost that for the Sabres to get him)? It makes no sense with the team sitting with nearly $9MM in cap space (which is effectively nearly $17MM in cap space at this point in the season) to be trading him away.
That cap space is going to disappear once we resign Quinn, JJP, Mitts, 2 dmen, and our goalies in 2 years.
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19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
None of the players in Rochester have shown an ounce of being able to do what Greenway does. WTF do we need another 2nd and 5th round pick and some ***** prospect that no one gives a ***** about when you in this very post say "we have enough young forwards in the AHL"? This is how not to build a team 101, draft a bazillion guys over 3 years and then turn around and trade an NHL player who is useful to your team so you can get more draft picks and prospects. We already have assets to get a #4 defender who typically cost at most a 2nd and a prospect. What a ***** waste of time this would be.
We aren't trading for any of the UFA's you listed because lol, that doesn't make sense and Adams certainly will feel that way.
Boqvist is Jokiharju with a different name and potentially not as good, no. Bouchard you literally can't trade for unless you wanna ship out Power or Cozens. Seider... LMFAO, you think Yzerman will trade his former 6th overall pick and best defender? Are you mad? I don't mind Byram but why on earth would Colorado want to trade him? Why would they want a couple of 2nd round picks and Isak Rosen or something? They wouldn't. So out of the list of RFAs you have here, 2 are almost guaranteed to be impossible to acquire unless you want to trade Owen Power, Dylan Cozens, JJP, OR Jack Quinn (1 of them would be the starting point for a Seider or Bouchard trade and then you have to add). Boqvist isn't much of an upgrade if at all so why bother. Sure if Colorado really wanted to rebuild they could trade their 22yr old defender but I again, you'd be looking to give them a prospect and a pick they really like (think Kulich and a 2nd and probably a sweetener like Strbak).
Boqvist is a much better Dman than Joker. We absolutely are going to need to trade or sign for a UFA because EJ's contract is up in a year.
That deal for Byram is probably a good one. We have scoring. We need Defenseman. Who is going to step up and play defense?
There are plenty of RFA and UFA Dmen available to trade for. I only mentioned a few. Packaging a fourth liner to end up with a much more valuable top 4 Dman is a deal that will pay much higher than keeping said 4th liner.
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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
Unlikely. You don't fill all that via trade because you couldn't and I'd bet money Adams is not goalie shopping. 1 of the D we need is a 5th defender, that's like a 3rd round pick maybe. The other defender we need is like Savoie and 50% olofsson retained because we have Dahlin which means we don't need a #1.
There is literally no one in Rochester to replace him with.
Trading nhl players under contract for picks is the last thing this team should be doing. Idk why anyone would care if Greenway was on the 4th line. It would be an improvement over Zemgus and Greenway can slide up the lineup as needed. It's called depth, it's what real nhl teams do.
Couldn't is a dirty word. You most certainly could find 2 competent Dmen on the trade market. Teams trade for depth DMen all the time (Zadorov, McCabe, Orlov, Montour, etc).
A competent top 4 defender is worth much more than a fourth liner. Ours play minimum 25% more minutes per game including the pp and pk.
KA should be looking for depth Dmen because Joker and EJ are going to need replacing. Also, we have enough young forwards in the AHL to cycle into the 4th line when it's time to test them out.
It happens that some teams, like the Canucks, are looking to add size. By moving Greenway, who is a UFA in 2 years, we can get some assets to apply to the acquisition of a depth defender, so why wouldn't we?
Sell Greenway for a 2nd, a 5th, and a prospect (or better). Target an RFA and a UFA on defense.
RFAs: Boqvist, Seider, Bouchard, Byram.
UFAs: Barrie, Montour, Chycrun (trade), Matheson (trade), etc.
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27 minutes ago, Taro T said:
He IS replaceable. But the Sabres have nobody in the system that can replace him within the next 2 years.
IF he is traded (and personally, don't see it happening), they then need to go out and get a replacement for him. He has a skill set and a role on this roster that nobody else possesses. Trade him, and the team that people already decry as having too much of 1 style player and not enough of the Greenway types now has 1 less Greenway type and (because it's all that they have in the system) 1 more of that other style player.
And, this is not addressed towards your point, but have seen people here state that Greenway should be traded and the pieces he brings back should be part of a package for a real D-man. What pieces can he bring back that the team doesn't already have to use in a trade? They have (at least this year and POSSIBLY next year) cap space; they have high end prospects; they have draft picks available; they have players on expiring contracts. Wtf is he bringing back that is magically more tradable than what they already have as trade bait?
More picks and more prospects. We need a lot of ready pieces and none of which are going to be cheap.
We need 1-2 solid NHL Dmen. We need a goalie. That might cost upwards of 9 guys.
Greenway is at best a fourth liner with pk minutes. At worst, an AHL player. Trade him while he's worth something. Replace him with an up and comer who can use the minutes.
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16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:
Half this board Last year: What an absolute bum Greenway is. Can’t believe they wasted picks trading for him
This season: He’s too valuable to trade😂
It just says the Canucks inquired about him as they should. He plays a role all teams covet: 6’6 winger that will use his size, tremendous defensively and on the PK, can put the puck in the net at a 15-20 goal clip if in the right situation.
IF they moved him it would have to be for a piece they really need not a draft pick.
He has carved out a nice role in Buffalo as a piece they don’t have duplicates of.
Most he ever scored was 12 goals in one season. He is valuable due to his size and the Canucks are looking to add it. They more than likely won't trade back an NHL player because they're trying for a playoff run.
I'd say sell him while his value is up. He is at best a 4th liner on a decent team, and we have more than enough competition for those minutes.
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I think we should trade for Habs' Montenbeault. He's pretty good considering the Habs are not. Plus, they have a goalie logjam at the moment.
Levi needs some time in the AHL to bake. Confidence is very important at the goalie position and we don't want to ruin our best chance at a 1A by crushing his.
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Trade him for a 2nd, a 3rd/5th, and a prospect.
Then, package those pieces and one of VO/Krebs/Girgs for a real NHL Dman.
I'm aiming at Boqvist, Peeke, Chycrun, Barrie, Matheson.
That would be amazing.
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Buffalo Bills 2023 Thread
in The Aud Club
Posted
Bills Defense got chewed up in the 2nd half. Mahomes and Kelce had their way without much contest. Even with the fumble return and some key penalties, Bills couldn't finish the job.
Close game, but the Chiefs showed why they are the hands-down best since Brady's Pats.