5th line wingnutt
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Posts posted by 5th line wingnutt
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12 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:
There are, of course, extreme left positions, and idiots abound everywhere. But to equate the very real threat of the militant extreme right at this moment with anything on the left, yes... even that scariest of dreadlocked drum-circling boogeymen “antifa,” is simply not supported by reality. Not everything needs to be made to balance if the evidence clearly puts almost all of the weight on one side of the scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting
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6 hours ago, LTS said:
If you didn't understand the response perhaps it would be better to try and ask questions rather than summarily dismiss it with a flippant response of your own.. The initial questions raised are the key to understanding why a person becomes this way.
As for a discussion on a genetic disposition of hatred:
We are born ignorant of many things. We don't know what to do with them until we are taught.
There may be a genetic tendency toward rage and many other factors but hatred is a purely learned trait. One does not see someone of a different ethnic background and hate them because of it. For that matter, until you knew what a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim were they were meaningless words. If you had never been taught what they were I could line 3 people up and you'd not feel hatred towards them for practicing any of those faiths.
If you want to continue down this path you should bring some level of research supporting the theory of hatred being linked to genetics. Hatred of the kind that causes people to want to destroy others because of their religion or ethnicity. Not hatred of coriander which really isn't hatred but a dislike as a defense mechanism. I've never seen any although there are some theories but most of them just don't stand up to examination.
I had been trying get Lgr to explain his position. I thought he was being evasive. The first bolded was me giving up.
As to the second bolded...I did not claim that hate is genetic. You said hate is learned. I merely asked how you knew it was not genetic.
FWIW I think all human characteristics are partly genetic and partly learned, and that there is a very complex relationship between genetics and environment. Read The Nurture Assumption or Nature via Nurture or The Blank Slate.
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https://www.thenewneo.com/2018/10/30/can-trump-end-birthright-citizenship-with-an-executive-order/
I did not know that @Neo had a blog.
Let's be more like Europe.
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5 hours ago, LTS said:
We've definitely wandered off into another topic zone... I figured I would ask. Discuss it here or throw it into a new thread?
I think @Scottysabres has a lot of things in the post that will drive a lot of commentary. If we want this thread to remain relegated to the bomb discussion and subsequent news regarding the bomber I would say we move this to its own topic...
Thoughts?
That was my thought as well.
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4 hours ago, Sabel79 said:
Again, not a real thing.
I think antifa is both real and extreme. For me it qualifies as alt left. Alternative left as opposed to welfare state left. And for me antifa is more fascist than the people they oppose.
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3 minutes ago, SwampD said:
Pretty sure some already are.
The point is... It is not like the government is making widgets and selling them to voluntary buyers. The government makes programs and makes you buy them whether you want them or not. I never wanted social security or medicare but I was forced into both.
The government also heavily regulates some industries, like health care insurance. They mandate what coverages are included, and if you want insurance you have to pay for stuff you do not want and do not need. I wanted a policy where I would pay for routine stuff out of pocket, and be covered for the big expensive stuff. Claims are expensive to generate, process and pay, and right now almost every visit to a provider generates one or more claims.
It is insane.
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1 minute ago, SwampD said:
Some utilities, schools,... AT&T stadium.
My town had it's own paving crew and DPW, others contract it out to private companies.
I'm sure there are more.
Funny, after I posted I thought about privatized prisons...and then thought "but wait, I'm still paying taxes for prisons". Most utilities were always private but heavily regulated. If I send my kid to private school, I still have to pay taxes for the public ones. Was it ever the governments job to build sports stadiums? And I am still paying the taxes that pay those paving companies.
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3 hours ago, SwampD said:
So all you do is give them your money, and you get nothing in return? Is that what you are saying?
If it is, then I don't need to go on.
If there was a service that the Government provided that a private company could take over and make money on, They would do it. It has happened.
(ftr, I hate using the term "government" Like it's this big monolithic boogieman. we end up sounding like some guy in a trump cover van.)
Like what?
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22 minutes ago, LTS said:
It had more substance than your response does. The questions being raised are precisely the factors that need to be addressed. There's no magic wand to wave to solve the problem. Look at the history of a person and see how they learned to hate because hate is not a genetic trait.
A few weeks ago I came across a statement that made me think. We're always hearing about the golden rule. But the truth is, the golden rule is massively flawed. It only works if everyone is the same as me which of course they are not. It's more valid to treat others the way they want to be treated. Perhaps it starts there.
I asked questions. I did not want, or expect, a magic wand. I wanted an overview of his approach. I got bunch of glittering generalties in the form of questions. How do you know hatred is not genetic?
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40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
I will respond with this, why do those people develop or feel that hatred? What are the contributing factors? You don't wake up ready to kill people so what preceded it? How was the personal marginalized? What indoctrinated them? How can you educate people against that indoctrination? Like I said, a more complex issue which is why it won't be tackled in that way.
Word salad, no substance.
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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:
You can find a solution to other things and keep those hate feeling individuals to the fringes and not emboldened though.
What other things? How?
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4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
You're right, let's just arm everyone. I should carry a gun because I work in education. You should carry a gun at church. The more the guns the better. That's the solution. Arm everyone and that will stop hatred. Never mind that 3 armed police officers were shot in this last confrontation.
A solution for hatred is a strawman argument to the extreme. Someone mentioned education and opportunity upthread and that's a good start.
What do you think motivates these attacks? What is your solution?
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34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Because you aren't addressing the problem. The problem is fear and hatred. Why in a free country should law abiding citizens arm themselves to the teeth, just in case? It is absolutely ridiculous. We have to proactively go around afraid of being shot. That's not freedom.
The immediate problem is to get the shooter to stop. This requires lethal force.
18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:I do but that's an entirely different conversation. Also a more complex one.
If you have a solution to hatred, I'm all ears. Start a thread.
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1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:
As for church shootings (in America, anyway), those attacks are not motivated by animus for the Christian faith in the same way that attacks on synagogues are plainly motivated by anti-Semitism. There's a decent write-up on the subject here, although I recall reading a more in-depth analysis of the issue elsewhere.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/church-shootings-truth/index.html
There's a virulent and despicable subculture in America and elsewhere in the west that vilifies Jewish people in a way that I find stomach-turning and breath-taking. There's no corresponding subculture -- in America, anyway -- that seeks a similar eradication of Christian peoples.
It's a dangerous proposition to equate the attack in Pittsburgh with a larger trend of anti-religiosity, as Kelly Conway has sought to do. In modern western culture, Christians have never been slaughtered by the millions because of their religious and ethnic identity. Jewish people have, though.
I mostly agree. I was only addressing the part of your post that I bolded. My wife belongs to a Christian church. During services they post men at all church entrances. Other Christian churches are also doing this.
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On 10/29/2018 at 9:12 AM, That Aud Smell said:
Certainly not me.
As for the matter of armed security: It did surprise me to read a bit -- in the wake of this atrocity -- about how much Jewish congregations around America have done in terms of securing their places of worship. There are apparently Jewish congregations that regularly arrange for armed security -- but usually only around the high holidays.
I will admit to being unable to understand anti-Semitism. As in: I literally do not understand it. I don't have a proper grounding in what forms the basis for the hate. More than anything, it just seems like so much anger, hate, and violence ends up being brought against the Jewish people because, for those who harbour such feelings and urges generally, the Jewish people are what they find after they take a "path of least resistance" approach to ventilating their hate.
And I'm done with being disappointed or offended by what Trump does, and does not, say in these kinds of situations. He is who and what he is. And he is a symptom, not a cause, of the problems the country has right now.
Christians, too. Within recent memory there have been church, synagogue, and at least one mosque shootings. IIRC the mosque shooting was in Canada.
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20 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:
They're dead, no? Retroactively implying that the innocent victims of terrorism are in some way at least partially responsible for their own deaths through their own failure to anticipate the actions of a terrorist is perhaps the worst look.
The fact that you inferred does not mean that I implied.
The shooter is entirely responsible.
Do you think deterrence is useless? Do you want to learn from errors of omission?
I still do not get how I penalized anyone.
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14 minutes ago, SwampD said:
Not fer nothin', but if you guys want Kanye, you can have him.
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Who are "you guys"?
I do not know much about Kanye, so I have no opinion on him.
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1 hour ago, josie said:
If you're going to post stories that are being widely covered, maybe post one from a more middle of the road/less biased source rather than an alleged pro-Russian and alt-right leaning blog (no longer just an international financial blog as it started) full of dodgy pop-ups run by folks who go by the pseudonym "Tyler Durden". Hard to have a calm and thoughtful conversation when the initial submission is already charged.
For instance, saying "Kanye West is making an anti-democrat clothing line with slogans such as "Blexit" and "We Free" can spark some convo. Or some eye-rolls, because it's Kanye West.
There are multiple news stories that keep it to that, without inflammatory terminology focused on or against either "side". Much more useful in your conversations, if you wish to actually have one.
If you are referring to "blexit", it is the first I heard of it, hence the question mark.
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56 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:
By all means, let's penalize the non-weapon toting for the actions of madmen abetted by a minority of society.
How am I penalizing anyone?
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4 hours ago, Weave said:
How many places are there with large police presence? Government facilities, airports. What else? You aren't going to have many events at places with large armed presence because there just aren't many of those places around. And the ones that are around are typically government associated. These events haven't been targeted at our government, they've been targeted at specific groups of people.
It's just not realistic to expect armed presence everywhere that groups of hated people gather. In one form or another, we're all hated by somebody. And so it is counter productive to go around shouting about how this might not have happened if there were an armed presence.
Concealed carry permit...and a working firearm.
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2 hours ago, SwampD said:
Not sure what this has to do with socialism, but yeah, when a nations entire economy is based on one thing, and that one thing goes belly up, there's going to be problems.
They have had a socialist government for 19 years. Prior to that they were the richest country in South America.
Donald J Trump, your thoughts on his Presidency
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I was being sardonic. I don't give a hoot about what Europe does.