Sabresince70
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Posts posted by Sabresince70
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since it 3:45am, and there is nothing moving but deer in the boro, let me give you a scenario that happens more often than you can imagine.
you get called for a domestic (husband and wife). On arrival, the wife says they were arguing and when he went to leave, she grabbed his shirt. She scratches him in doing so. clear scratches, not deep, but bleeding,. He has been drinking, she didn't want him to leave and drive drunk. they have kids upstairs, crying and frightened. What do you do?
In PA, if you go to a domestic, and there is visible injuries, you must make an arrest. Honestly, traffic stops are usually the easy ones. These can make you sit in your car and shake your head. And it happens just as often that the wife has been drinking and he grabs her to keep her from driving. And remember, you have kids upstairs that will need to be taken care of when the call is over.
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Thanks for all responses. If no one minds, I will share with some of my co-workers. I will check back in am (I work nights tonight). Thanks again, Dan
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I know people who are down right defiant toward police. I just SMH and don't discuss it with them. There is no hope for anyone who as soon as you mention police their reaction is "###### them I'm minding my own business".
Which I think is code for "I'm breaking the law but I don't think I'm doing anything wrong."
Fair enough -" that guy was speeding" ...... ######## them, I am eating.
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I feel kinda bad. You may just get piled on here. And I don't mean to disrespect you. I wish you guys didn't so closely honor that thin blue line and deal with the bad more readily, and decisively. You guys lost an ally that day.
Actually, you lost a family of allies.
The problem, though, is that there's no way to distinguish between a good and bad cop on sight, so all cops scare the ###### out of me on principle.
You think they're not equally afraid of you? You'd send a shiver down Serpico's spine.
No reason to feel bad, I KNOW that personal experience drives our feelings. Wish we could get together at a game and meet not as cop but as fellow Sabre fans. Maybe it would change a little? As far as telling good from bad, it is what makes us fear and react to movements/ certain statements the way we do. We don't know how to tell the good and bad apart, either. At least not until the incident is unfolding/or over.
So I'm certain I've had more police interaction than most here. Arrested 3 times, nearly a few others. Pulled over dozens of times. Every time I thought I was nabbed. Without fail, I was cordial and respectful of the police. Everytime,I was treated with respect and even officers felt sympathy for my plight.
The only time an officer was ever rude to me was when I was accused of stealing from a previous employer. I didn't steal the funds in question but I wasn't a choir boy either.
I have had a person call my chief to thank me for arresting him. I really think he meant that it was me and not a certain other officer, but sure gave me a laugh. There are two residents that live in the Boro that really wish for another officer when they see me coming. It happens. Sometimes the mix is oil and water....Not everybody that gets arrested or did something stupid is a jerk. I get that. Most of us do. I worked for the Sheriff's office before the Boro. I watched the "road crew" workers. Some of the most decent people I have ever been around (and some of the worse). Sometimes, people do dumb things.
Mixed as others have stated. I have and had a number of friends who are officers and often work with officers in the ER doing xrays and CT scans on arrestees and victims. As you stated there good and bad officers, the younger crowd with experiences from IRaq or Afganistan seem to have the hardest time understand that in a civilian society they are here to serve and protect. Got one reassigned to the xray machine with one of the old bulls when working on Capitol Hill for being disrespectful. I knew his Lueitenant... The older ones seem to intuitively know what is a threat. Most have been respectful, a couple have been jerks and suspect they would be regardless of their profession. I am always respectful, but like all authority, it should be questioned because it is fallible. The biggest question to is how avoid direct conflict. I advocate going up the food chain when an officer is abusive which I have done. Still some recent actions of a few knuckleheads have given police in general a bad rap. But police need to remember this is a democracy not run by them and they are not the final say so, just an immediate one that can only be effective based on mutual community trust and outreach. I am tired and this question has so many different layers in my life. My Dad a former Navy frogman eod, along with other former service members who became college professors effectively protested police abuse on UB campus in the 70s called the 45 group. Like I said my experience is complicated:
Careful, it is a Republic - one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes, when asked what kind of government we were going to have "A republic, if you can keep it" (And I am not making this a republican/democrat thing).
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I'm not sure what your jurisdiction is like, but if my local police weren't pulling people over going that fast in a 25 MPH zone I would be furious. In my experience, the lower the speed limit is, the more residential the area is. Driving faster than intended in an area around children is reckless and inexcusable and those speeds should be an indicator of their presence.
I HAVE to give 10 miles an hour for the speed device we use (In PA only radar can be 5 over and only the State Police are allowed to use it). Those extra 5 miles, very seldom are an issue. If they are speeding at 36 - 39, God bless them. Anything at 40, I am stopping you. Our chief recently paid for the "your speed is" signs. It registers speed of each car, ave. speed, no. of cars, etc... He placed it at the spot where we were getting complaints about. less than 2% of the cars that went through the area were over 10 miles. We actually have had our crime watch "Speed timing" one with a robic stopwatch, one just watching. The one without the stopwatch swore people were speeding. The one with the watch could not time one over 10 miles over. I can't speak for everyone, we have only four areas in our entire Boro where we can time (lines need to be on road for our device) and it limits where we can time. I don't "hide" I park in plain view. Most have the sense to slow down (to at least the 10 mile buffer) those that don't are almost always above "my" 15 buffer. It also puts to rest the "you pulled me over because of my..." statements. It has never mattered (even the Flyer plates)
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Sabresince70, you talk about cutting breaks if the citizen hasn't "hit any buttons." Almost everyone knows that if you're respectful and nice to the officer, it benefits you. Can I quibble with this?
I've gotten one speeding ticket, after going at least 80 in a 70 in West Virginia (just like everyone else, but I passed and stayed in the left lane, so I was asking for it). I was nice, asked the officer if he's been working out, or words to that effect, so he wrote it less than 10 under the speed limit, which saved me some money. But why should attitude count?
It seems like it accentuates the power differential in the situation. "Ya'll be real nice to me and ain't nothin' bad gunna happen." Sheriff Buford T. Pusser.
Does a citizen give up his free speech rights in that situation? When there's a penalty for calling you an incompetent bum, I'd say that right has been lost.
I don't know if it is "cutting breaks" or not escalating it if they don't hit buttons. Everyone is "getting the break" from the beginning. The ones who get personal, use language that I wouldn't use in public or with someone I don't know, or create issues that hadn't existed (Safety wise) Earn the ticket (full price, letter of the law, whatever term you want to use). Breaks, I guess if you refer to someone with (to me) a good reason for whatever they did getting a warning, yep I admit I can be had for certain sob stories (usually won't punish someone trying to get to work, especially if I am aware of traffic problems in the area may have caused him to be late). You don't have to do anything special. I don't need or expect compliments/whatever. I also don't feel I need to be abused for doing my job. That I do not apologize for.
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It sounds like Qwk has issues similar to the issues I have with law enforcement tactics. Fishing for excuses to hammer you. A Greatful Dead bumper sticker should never result in a cop trying to trick you into allowing him to search your car. Odor of pot? Dilated eyes? Yes, try to get that car searched. A bumper sticker giving you reason to badger your way into a search? Now you are being a fecking bully.
The incident that changed my perspectives on law enforcement happened around 15 years ago. My 66 year old FIL was home recuperating from angioplasty to clear up a blockage in one of his arteries. It was a Friday. They went in through his groin. About 11:30 that evening he felt a pop in his groin and intense pain. He figured out right away that his femoral artery burst where they went in. He called for his wife to get the car going, they needed to get to the hospital NOW! My MIL raced through the streets of Cheektowaga to get him to St. Joes. On the way his condition was deteriorating rapidly. He was pale and his lips were starting to turn blue as they reached Harlem Road. When the car crested the railroad bridge they saw a roadblock for a sobriety checkpoint ahead. MIL pulled out of her lane of traffic and pulled up to the officers. The nearest officer ran up to her car and screamed for her to get back in line. By now my MIL was near hysterical. She told the cop that they needed to get to the hospital (less than 1/2 mile away). He told her that if they needed medical help he'd call an ambulance, if not she needs to get in line. In panic, my MIL ran the roadblock and headed for the hospital, cop cars chasing her. She pulled into St. Joes and ran into the lobby to get help as the police cars were pulling into the parking lot. Hospital staff ran out with her and got FIL into a wheelchair and starting checking his vitals. His heart stopped right there in the hospital lobby. Fortunately, the good doctors at St. Joes were able to get his heart restarted. He lost over 2 liters of blood when his femoral artery burst.
That cop couldn't see that my FIL was plainly in distress? He couldn't detect the panic in my MIL and understand that this isn't the time or place to exert command and control? He couldn't sense that what this retired couple needed was an immediate escort to the hospital less than 1/2 mile up the road, not a screamed lesson in getting in line.
Pisses me off all over again.
I am true sorry for your experience, and I can again, stress, there are good and bad everywhere.
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OK. Can't speak to NY law. It has always been the "gift" ticket here because of lack of points.
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Interesting. I got 2 points on my license and a $180 fine, that was in January 2013.
In PA?
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Haha! Pittston, PA. My question is do some officers see out of state plates and think "free money, no way they'll go to traffic court to fight this."?
Not me! I see out of state, and think lost (we are one square mile, with farm land). In PA, if the person is from out of state, you can actually hold the driver for summary (tickets) to ensure payment. Way to much hassle for me.
And while I am sharing - there are three things I will always give tickets for, no excuse acceptable. Opening you door into traffic (yep, it is in the vehicle code) and failure to stop for pedestrian in crosswalk - moving violations - and parking in a handicap spot. Automatic.
I have a friend who is automatic with inspection stickers, one who is all about your lights (headlights, taillights, brake lights etc....) we all have something.
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I wrote 10 tickets last year. Wasn't even the lowest in the department. We have some that wrote 75. Not judging, we just look at the job differently. Last Friday I held the ladder for two different people that were decorating their house, had two ambulance assists, and made an arrest for illegal fireworks (the first time I get called to your house and say stop, stop. The second time I have to come, it cost you $300)
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Randall,
Can't speak to him pulling you over (wouldn't be fair without "seeing what he saw", but if you were in PA at the time, the "failure to obey traffic control device pa vc 3111, was the cheapest ticket and carried no points against license. And it would be to the posted speed sign, not the lane change. The state has since made it an expensive ticket (fine went from $25 to $125) but it still carries no points. I will actually ask (If I am giving a ticket - 20 or more over) which one the driver would prefer (as long as he has not hit any buttons). Some would rather have the higher cost and no points, some would take the cheaper ticket.
Side note, failure to use turn signals is $25 fine/no points. If you get pulled over for speeding, and the officer talks with you, and all is seemingly going well, how would you react to him coming back with a ticket for turn signals instead of speeding? I know of an officer that (since the state changed the 3111 fine, will issue a ticket for turn signals for when you pulled over to stop instead of the speeding ticket. It would not be what you were "pulled over" for, but would be much cheaper in the long run.
So, I get pulled over a lot(speeding, always) plus I work til 2:30am, so I'm a real big expert on passing field sobriety tests.)). I pretty much always get a warning. I'm always polite, I know the deal. My brother is Las Vegas Metro Police.
The only time a cop has ever given me a hard time was when I moved to Pennsylvania and was pulled over for rolling a 4 way stop. I had NY plates and a NY licence and this guy gave me the "you ain't from 'round here, are ya, boy?"
So now I'm thinking, great, I'm ######. I got some yocal who hates New Yorkers. I was right. He was a complete ass the entire time. Gave me 3 tickets. All the while I gave yes sir and no sir answers. It felt like he was intentionally trying to get me riled up.Willing to share the municipality? I have no issue with New Yorkers. It's those damn Flyer plates in the front that get me :ph34r:
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A number of years ago I had to call 911 for an ambulance for my dad. The next day I picked up the phone and accidentally hit the redial button. When 911 answered, I did the worst thing you can do. Hang up. Five minutes later an officer was knocking on the door. Despite my nervous, almost hilarious, "come on in, take a look around, I don't care" the words all running together, he just said have a nice day. I was surprised. I could have had multiple hostages.
More to the OP's interest, sometimes the office doesn't have a choice. I was driving a veteran home from a radiation treatment in Buffalo in my own car. He couldn't wear a seat belt because of the discomfort in his abdomen. We got pulled over in Ellicottville by an officer who must have had 20/5 vision to see it. Despite the explanation, my friend got a ticket. The problem was he didn't have a letter from a doctor stating he couldn't wear a belt. The officer was very respectful and almost apologetic. He was just doing his job. Unfortunately, the veteran never did have to pay the ticket, as he died a few months later.
Seatbelts are strange laws... I know of a chief who removes the "bells" from the seatbelt indicators in the patrol car because he won't wear them. NO ONE in his department will write that ticket. (Unless you hit key words when the officer is at your window...)
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I just looked up Alburtis, for some reason I thought it was up towards Allegheny. Seeing where it is, I've probably ridden through at some point going to a friends house in Macungie. I know I've ridden Mountain Rd. and even went had a burger at Snuzzle's.
If you ever pull over a guy on a silver BMW with an orange helmet, say hi!
Macungie is our "sister". Each department (normally) has only one officer on at a time, so we are each other's back up. I spent more time in Macungie last weekend than in our Boro. If you get pulled over feel free to use "do you know Summy [sum-me] ? For nearly everyone in either department it should help. (Maybe not the chief in Macungie, but that is a long story).
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I had a similar one, but on a fairly narrow but moderate traffic road. There's no way I could have gotten off the road enough to not block a lane, putting everyone at risk so I put the flashers on (to acknowledge the cop) and drove up less than a mile to parking area I knew was there. I like to think he appreciated that he didn't have to stand in traffic to talk to me; he didn't give me any trouble about not pulling over in any case. SS70, what would you prefer in that situation? I assume you make stops on those windy narrow roads up there often. Should the driver wait until there's somewhere safe for everyone or pull over immediately?
Wait until it is safe! I don't know if you are familiar with Alburtis, but we have very narrow roads. The flashers are a great idea. Atleast we know you see us. And slow down. If your speed remains the same (or worse increases) our reaction will be different! I would rather talk in a parking lot than in traffic.
It's funny, the best experiences I've had are with younger cops. Every older cop I've met just treats me like I'm some moronic college student, young guys seem to treat me like a person
This idea all started with our "new young" guy. He seems much more "hopeful" that each call will bring excitement. I am guessing the paperwork will slow him down. I have three daughters (two in college, one graduated last June) and I have a second job at a college (free tuition is a wonderful thing). I will not discuss my opinion on college.... :cry:
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My only experience with being in a pulled over car came when I was much younger, so I don't really have a good perspective on this. I do know from those cases though that you definitely reap what you sow. Treat them with respect and that's what you'll get in return. There was only one time where we got a lot of attitude from the cop, but we totally understood it. My friend was speeding on the highway at night in a section that had the entire right lane blocked off with cones for future construction. My friend had one of those "oh crap, you got me" reactions, but had no idea where to pull over. He wound up driving for an extra mile or so until the cones were gone and immediately pulled over. The officer right away wasn't happy about that, but my friend was very quick with the "sorry sir, I had no idea where to pull over" and his attitude changed fairly quickly. I'm sure it didn't hurt that he could clearly see the goalie pads and hockey sticks in the back seat and knew right away where we were coming from. I can't remember whether or not he wound up with a ticket, as I didn't particularly care too much since I wasn't the one at fault.
Honestly though, I think I would have done the same exact thing had I been driving. I see those cones as a "stay the hell out of here" message and would have been just as confused. The road was fairly deserted, so there wasn't any risk of accident. What would the officer expect a driver to do in this situation?
without knowing the area, it would not be fair for me to say, "you should have..." It does sound as though the officer accepted you friend's explanation and reacted "sorry sir, I had no idea where to pull over" and his attitude changed fairly quickly, well. After a mile, he may well have been calling for another car (we expect the worse at that point). Not making excuses, but his "not happy about" might have been his " I m expecting crap" attitude.
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I've only had bad experiences with police.
I've never been arrested. I've been driving for 5 years, and I've only gotten one ticket. It was a speeding ticket for going 69 in a 55 (Friday night on 13 heading to Ithaca to see my girlfriend). I was issued a 200 dollar ticket which I got reduced to 120 when I appealed in traffic court. The officer lectured me, but whatever, it was fine.
The other times I had run in with police:
About 8 months ago got stopped on a Saturday night at around midnight because the officer said I went over the white line (I didn't). I was driving my Dad's BMW. I suspect that this never would have happened if I was in my usual minivan. He asked me why my hand was shaking and I told him that my hands have always been shaky. He then asked me if I was nervous, which I said yes. He asked me if I had anything to drink, I said yes, a(one) Southern Tier IPA at 10. Then he had me come behind my car for a sobriety test. He attempted to mislead me into saying that I had more than one drink three times. ("You said you had a couple drinks tonight?") He awkwardly sent me on my way afterwards. I was infuriated by this.
Several times when I was in a band driving to or from a gig (car full of college age curly headed hipsters), we were stopped and rudely, aggressively questioned about where our drugs were (we had no drugs). My friend even consented to a search one time. The cop accused my friend of stealing from Hot Topc because his manager keys were in the glove box. We had to wait until the cop called his store to get back into our car. Friends of ours (in a different band) have had their equipment damaged after consenting to a search.
One time, my friend and I were parked in a parking lot next to Taco Bell eating our food (again, two curly headed college age hipsters). A cop turned on his lights and siren and rolled up on us. He asked me where I lived and left us embarrassed after seeing that we were eating.
When I was a kid I was in the car with my 16 year old brother. He was a pipsqueak of a teenager and got pulled over on the street we live on for no reason (because he looked young). 2 officers came to his car. After asking my brother if he knew why he had been stopped ("no?"), he awkwardly asked after a long pause if there was a reason why my brother didn't have a rear license plate. Surprised, my brother got out of the car to inspect it with the 2 cops. The other officer said "It's on. clearly on there." My brother was super polite. But once they were gone he raged.
When I see a cop, my stomach instantly drops. I don't feel safer, I feel like this is a person with power over me who will do whatever he can to arrest me.
Wish there was a way to convince you there are good and bad in every job. I am sorry those things have happened to you. Best advice I was ever given at the academy (nearly 20 years ago) was treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Most of those I work with and know from other departments do this. The others make it harder for us...
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It occurred to me I wasn't being fair by not giving at least a little of my view... so
When I pull a car over, let's say for speeding, I have choices (every dept. is different, though). If I am timing in a 25 MPH zone, by state law, I have to give 10 over to stop for speeding (state police only need 5). I give 15. So I will not pull someone over for less than 40. If you are going between 40 and 45, and you don't hit certain buttons when I get to the window (and all of your paperwork is good) it is a warning. If you are over 45 and don't , in my mind, have a good reason, you are getting a ticket. It may not be for the full 20 over, but you are getting something. I made this rule for myself shortly after I was hired, my chief has no problems with it, and I stick to it. Race, sex, nothing matters (only attitude).
And yes, nervous. every time. I find myself going to the passenger's side more and more these days.
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If you all could help me with something.... I am curious to get opinions from people that 1.don't know me and are giving honest thoughts, not what they think I want to hear, and 2. people not associated with law enforcement in any way.
I know what goes through my mind when I approach a car on a traffic stop, or a couple that is arguing/fighting and neighbors have called and reported a "domestic", etc.... I am curious as to what the other side is thinking. Even what the caller is expecting. When/If you have been pulled over, and you know that you were speeding/ran a sign,whatever, what are you expecting from the officer? Do you think he is going to give you a ticket no matter the circumstances? Do you expect him to just give a warning? Do you consider that he may not have a choice?
If you have ever been involved in a domestic, either an involved party or a reporting person (neighbor/witness/etc...) what have you expected?
As I have gotten older, and have seen new and young officers (we recently hired one who views the world much differently than I) it has hit me that we teach fully from our POV as opposed to the publics. We certainly need to be taught to see things from a safety way (that quick movement to your jacket pocket because you just now realized that is where you left your wallet does send signals to us that you do not intend) but I think it would be helpful to have input from "the other side".
Mods - feel free to get rid of this if you feel it is not appropriate, I don't intend for it to cause fighting or bad feelings and I know it is no way Sabre related, I just thought it was a good source of "unknown" friends that could help. Thanks, Dan
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Donnie Edwards and Bob Sauve............ :beer:
Absolutely! Still have an Edwards stick from when he played at Hershey!
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Think maybe we were all spoiled with Lorentz? I really don't mind Ray, but I used to really enjoy "learning" from Lorentz. He didn't speak just to speak and had an almost teacher like way of explaining things. Also thought Gare did OK the few times he had been on (years ago).
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And if Gionta is playing who is sitting?
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Any news on D pairings? Kinda disappointed McCabe is gone. Can't believe he would have been worse than some we saw the other night.
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I am all for picking up Budaj off waivers as our back up, and letting Johnson get his chance. Does anyone really believe that the difference between whoever Calgary gives up and Johnson would be so great? And letting Budaj sit back up while our young ones keep playing in the AHL would be fine.
OT - opinions of interaction with police
in The Aud Club
Posted
The state is bringing the charges. People may file charges at a district justice, but when an officer does it, they are representing the commonwealth. A little further information on this - it is actually the call that inspired this thread. When I recently had this call, I arrested the wife (had too, by law), but the law does not specify what charge needs to be filed. She was arrested for harassment (it is under the assault section in the crimes code) . It is a fine of up to $300 and is a summary offense (ticket). She does not have to be booked, or held for the charge. He was not charged (attempting to DUI is not a crime and the only charge that might have been appropriate was a noise complaint since the neighbors called (but then she would have had to get another citation as well). It was strongly suggested that he stay somewhere else for the night (I provided the ride to his sister's). I did have to clear the charge with the DA's office, but they seldom question the call. The wife was livid that she got a ticket. The husband was extremely upset (he would end up paying the fine since she was a stay at home mom) and the sister was upset that she was woken up to have her brother stay the night. My question to my wife when I got home was "what were they expecting me to do?" so... the topic.