SabresVet
-
Posts
391 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by SabresVet
-
-
17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
I like when I get quoted back info that's in my post.
Also idc about Eichel. I'm fighting against the idea the new young core needs some magical acceleration because of this season of losing.
I don't give a ***** about Jack Eichel or what he thinks anymore. Good riddance to him. My point is you do not waste draft or young assets to make some accelerated rebuild.
No, you cherry picked the timeline to fit your narrative. I corrected it to reflect player's NHL service time beginning in Aho's case.
The Sabres from 2015-16 through 2020-21 are nothing like a comparable duration with TB and Carolina. You're analogy is not...analogous.
And...with Eichel...you do care enough to bash him and make it seem he had no right to hurt your feelings by demanding to leave. And you've largely excused the Sabres for being bad for so long.
Eichel, et al. have left. Let's just admit the Sabres were poorly run and the inevitable departures happened as a result...unlike other franchises that eventually got good.
-
2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
Sebastian Aho was drafted by the Hurricanes in 2015, they did not make the playoffs for 3 more seasons and had missed the playoffs the proceeding 7 seasons. Aho didn't need an accelerated rebuild and didn't become a moping loser.
Stamkos did not see playoffs in his first 2 years, Hedman did not see the playoffs in his rookie year. Tampa then made the playoffs and then missed the next 2 seasons meaning that 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 4 of their first seasons in the league, Hedman and Stamkos were not in the playoffs. Didn't become losers though, in fact I would argue that Hedman in particular benefited from failing at first because we know that he spent those 2 missed playoff years increasing his speed and agility to become the dominate defender he is.
My point is that yes, some players if they lose for a few years will become mopey eeyore's who develop a wooo is me attitude. Other players look internally for ways they can improve or externally for ways they can help their fellow teammates improve.
Alex Ovechkin for that matter. Drafted in 04, first season was the lockout. Then the Caps missed the playoffs the next 2 seasons.
Comparing Buffalo to Carolina and Tampa Bay in those players' first few seasons is laughably bad.
Aho was in the playoffs with a 99 point regular season (2018-19) in his 3rd NHL season. Carolina subsequently made the playoffs in 2019-20 and 2020-21. As for Stamokos, just before his 3rd season TB hired Yzerman in 2010 and the Lightning played in the Conference Finals that year. Which, by the way, was Hedman's 2nd NHL season.
Contrast that with Buffalo, which recorded in Eichel's first 5 seasons, point totals of 81, 78, 62, 76, and, in the shortened 2019-20 season...68. They weren't even close to the playoffs, aside from that 2019-20 season they finished...25th overall.
Point is, there was a path forward with observed success for Carolina and Tampa Bay. Yet, before that 2019-20 season, there was nothing like that in Buffalo. I'd argue that Buffalo's blood-letting of front office people in early 2020 indicated they were paring down expenses and, if I'm a player, I do not see that as a franchise going for it. It was perfectly reasonable for Eichel to seek out a trade after spending 5 years in a veritable wasteland of new HC's and GM's. And, ownership did themselves no favors hiring said HC's and GMs. Buffalo was mired in the mud going nowhere.
The post-Eichel Sabres have only so long before the rebuild needs to start showing success. There are some signs, but poor on-ice performance is what those vets who wanted out could see coming. If I spent years of my career playing for a moribund team and then realized another rebuild meant 2-3 more seasons of losing...well, anyone would want out. There's only so much losing an athlete can take, particularly when the franchise lacks direction and a sense of urgency.
-
4
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
I think Adams has another 2 years before playoffs is expected
The Pegula's don't have 2 years worth of patience seeing ticket sales equivalent to 45% of arena capacity. Especially if they're again among the bottom quartile of the league by mid-season next year.
They need to be in the conversation for a playoff spot next season.
-
Early returns look good on the trade, but it's waaaaay too early to evaluate final grades. Reminds me of team's draft or UFA signings getting graded as though that's the time anyone can draw a conclusion.
Likelihood is this trade will be more level than the ROR deal.
-
1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:
You guys…Terry is worth five billion dollars. This isn’t about cashing out 150 million via 20% sale.
Also, throwing their commitment to the Sabres and the region out the window when asking for $700 million for a football stadium from the county and the state would be crazy.
The Bills more than cover any Sabres losses.
They two franchises may be under the same PSE roof, but no business is going to look to one side of the house to cover another. I'm 100% confident they're viewing both teams on their own and as such, that each stands on their own financially.
At the same time, the prospect of building a new Bills stadium is impacting their financial decision making with the Sabres. They can't keep losing millions as they did in 2019-20:
I could definitely see them selling part of the Sabres to provide some liquidity to put toward a new stadium that, despite an initial proposal, will cost them I'm guessing a couple hundred million. Especially now that 55% of the Key Bank Arena isn't selling out on average each home game.
-
2
-
-
There's no way I'm letting him wear 51. Does he now know who Brian Campbell is?
-
1
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
We didn't even make it 41 games before the problem was "granato"
No one's arguing DG is the only one or thing at fault right now. That's just a hyperbolic assertion.
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
I want you to compare the rosters and get back to us.
Here's the thing if Buffalo plays at 100% effort they can hang with Tampa at 80% effort.
If Buffalo has 90% effort but Tampa comes in at 100%, you lose.
Last night we got about 75% effort and the results speak for themselves. You're watching a team that does not have enough talent. No one goes at 100% all the time consistently but we don't have the talent level to be competitive otherwise.
Of course, everyone knows TB is more talented and this time had Kucherov.
It doesn't justify their 1-10-1 home record these past 2 months with their lone win against fellow bottom-feeder Montreal.
A lack of talent should never inhibit the effort a team demonstrates.
-
1
-
-
9 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:
Not to mention the fact that they were playing a vastly superior team. A back-to-back Stanley Cup defending team with a more than realistic chance to be the first team to win 3 in a row since the early 1980s.
A Lightning team they demolished 5-1 earlier this season.
The quibbling really needs to find an end this season. Because at some point fans should expect to see a team competing for 60 minutes each night with some more wins coming from that effort.
-
2 hours ago, sabrefanday1 said:
Yes the team is not winning many games right now but they are probably as good as they would have been had we kept jack and Sam and Risto and carried on doing what they have been doing which is of course skate around, maybe score once in a while but otherwise show no real interest. At least now there seems to be some sort of "plan" and "direction" and there seems to be some hope now that did not exist not to long ago.
Doubtful. They have 15 points in their last 28 games and, all quibbling aside, that's really bad. We're talking one-third of a season and, applied to a full season is a 44 point year.
No one thought they'd be in the playoffs or be at 80 points but this 2 month stretch is not a isolated event. Frankly, hearing about how they have a "plan" or "direction" is nothing different than what 31 other NHL teams have.
Even taking the lack of W's out of the conversation, the Sabres are not improving as a team on the ice. They have compete issues even with the new HC and that's cause for concern. Young teams might lose because they're inexperienced, but shouldn't be flat-lining for a period like this team has.
-
1
-
1
-
-
8 hours ago, Thorny said:
With the exception of your idea that they had "no other option" but to go this route, I see the rest of the post as plausible.
The new process is not without risks. If the timeline you believe in is merely extended one further year, and there's another 2 full years after this one where we aren't "serious", I fear for the "culture."
Hell, I fear for it with another bad year after the current.
Is the top of the draft a priority again next year?
What would be odd is the current core, albeit younger and less proven, not becoming disenchanted with repeated losing into 2022-23.
If next season sees Buffalo finish outside the playoffs, guys like Dahlin will be gone when their contracts expire or they have enough leverage over the team just like the guys who left this year did.
At least Adams acknowledges how they need to win back the fanbase, which is evident with each home game's attendance. And I'd expect that the GM in the sky is looking for results before year 3 of an Adams rebuild or 2023-24.
-
2 hours ago, Zamboni said:
People mistakenly point to one reason. Or maybe two. I honestly believe it’s a multitude of reasons why the arena is the way it is. In no particular order.
1. People positive with Covid.
2. The team sucks and don’t want to spend the money to see them.
3. Don’t want to go to a game where you have to show proof of vaccination. Even if you are vaccinated.
4. Some fans aren’t vaccinated. So therefore can’t attend.
5. Can’t afford it at this time. maybe their work closed down or they’re laid off due to pandemic etc …
6. Canadian fans don’t want to put up with the hassle of coming over the border and going back. Or can’t at this time.
7. Weather related reasons.
I am sure there are a few other reasons as well…
But I think it’s a multitude of reasons that could be pointed to as to why the arena attendance is the way it is. I know I have my reasons….
Complex problems typically have several causes, some root and others contributing. Prominent contributing are 3, 4, 5, 6 and maybe 7. I doubt 1 is a major impact to game attendance though, but could be a contributing cause.
The main reason is #2...a very loyal fan base has, after 10+ years of misery under this ownership, finally stopped supporting the team in-person. Die-hards still exist, but it's the middle of the road fans, who may well being facing financial challenges, but even if not the team is not worth going to see for ticket price points.
And I'd point to the 45% of the arena filled through 18 home games as evidence. In fact, this is almost half of what it was in 2019-20.
https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=5054
We can quibble about minor details, but even if there were no virus restrictions most people wouldn't go watch this team. At least with Eichel and Reinhart there were some very good or better players to see even if they lost. Now, there's no marquee players and they're still likely going to lose (they've won 2 home games in the last 2 months).
-
12 hours ago, dudacek said:
I’d be interested in whether those numbers hold up when you take out the period between Anderson’s injury and UPL’s recall.
Do your own research.
Reality is, you don't remove 15 out of 33 games because the goalies are/were known as underperforming. That hits to a bigger issue where the position was mismanaged and poor resulted followed.
Which means, if UPL and Subban are better, there's an issue identifying talent.
And, it doesn't explain why they score twice the goals in the 2nd period than the first.
-
What makes this game unique is how, through 33 games now, Buffalo has held the lead after the first and second periods 5 times. Three of those games occurred during the 5-1-1 start.
Someone before mentioned they don't have the talent, and that's true. But the other thing is, they're getting out-scored 34-21 in the first during the season and now 28-15 since the hot start.
Otherwise, in GF, they're 42-41 in the 2nd period and 27-31 in the 3rd. I'm not taking a deep dive into the analytics, but being so poor during the 1st period is cause for concern.
-
1
-
-
9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:
I’m so sick of our rotten luck that we have every freaking game. Pucks bouncing off stansions into scoring positions, hitting legs and never going to our guys, etc.
We haven’t played great but we have deserved at least a bit more luck.
No one deserves luck.
-
On 12/17/2021 at 2:01 PM, LGR4GM said:They should go every year without it. 68 games would be plenty and would allow better rest and most important games.
I'm sure the owners would be thrilled with losing 7 home games a year.
No professional sports league wants to voluntarily decrease their revenue.
-
30 minutes ago, MattPie said:
9 points equates to a 11-12 game winning streak, or 11-12 games above average for the rest of the season. How, you ask? To be on playoff pace, you need to capture 1.2 points per game (give or take a few 0.01s depending on the year). Each win is 0.8 points above that number. This isn't insurmountable, but to hit 0.600 points per game (which Boston and Pittsburgh are pacing at right now), the Sabres need 1.37 points per game. Over a full season, that paces 112 points meaning the Sabres need to be one of the top two or three teams in hockey for the next five months.
-
1 hour ago, jad1 said:
Plans are great, but when the losses pile up and the arena is empty, basic business principals take over and guys get fired.
They are many good people on this board who believe in what Adams is doing, and they do a great job of analyzing his plan. But the general fanbase is not on board with the direction of the team. There aren't 19,000 fans in the arena eager to watch Tage Thompson's development during a 13 game winless streak.
In the end, the only thing that matters is wins. And if Adams can't produce them, all it takes is a Pegula calling Karmanos into his office and asking, "So, what would you do different if you were the GM."
With 8,500 fans in the building each night, that's 10,000+ tickets unsold per game. Over 41 home games (and I don't know if they share ticket revenue with opponents) that's more than 400,000 seats unfilled this season. At an average of $75 per, you're talking a 30M loss.
If that continues into season 3 (2022-23) I can definitely see Adams being canned. It's hard for me to understand how people minimize the financial piece of this business. We know they reduced payroll in anticipation of lower revenue, but that's a lot of money for a smaller market NHL team.
For the record, Buffalo is more than 3k less than the 31st ranked team for attendance: https://www.espn.com/nhl/attendance
-
Listening to the interview on GR this morning, one would think Sabres aren't all that bad. It was player health updates and talking up players like Okposo and UPL.
Can't expect fire and brimstone every time, but they've lost 7 straight. I guess that doesn't warrant talking about a schedule against Winnipeg, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Colorado, and Columbus these next 2 weeks.
-
1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:
I did answer it.
"I would think Botterill felt trapped and feared he'd lose his job if Skinner walked. Irregardless, he was the GM at the time, so it's on him."
So yes, if Terry was willing to pay, JBot was willing to sign.
😆
-
1 hour ago, Thorny said:
At what point in the 17 losses in the last 20 am I supposed to see this “difference”?
If wins aren't the qualitative measure of success, just create the ambiguous metric of "effort" to demonstrate improvement. Hard to say things are going well when they were 9-16-3 to finish 2020-21 and 8-15-4 to begin 2021-22.
Only difference is that different players are on the team and...some holdovers are playing better (Thompson).
-
1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
The fans and this board certainly wanted him re-signed at any price.
So did the owner.
-
1
-
-
23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:
Was Adams the decisive factor in signing Hall? idk in either case how much Terry or Kim meddled in either, only they know.
Skinner's agent played Botterill though and it appears that Botterill felt he had to sign him at any cost rather than risk the ire he'd receive for letting him walk (which would have occurred among fans in general without the hindsight). I would think Botterill felt trapped and feared he'd lose his job if Skinner walked. Irregardless, he was the GM at the time, so it's on him.
You did not answer the question. Do you believe the dominant voice in re-signing Skinner to that contract was Botterill?
-
20 hours ago, dudacek said:
One thing Adams has done significantly better than Botterill is that he has tended to invest $750,000 and no assets into one-year contracts for his JAGs like Hinostroza and Pysyk, rather than $10 million and picks into long-term deals for JAGs like Sheary and Miller.
Seriously @GASabresIUFAN, how can you get upset by Butcher and ignore that?
Adams has a lot smaller budget to use as compared to Botterill. Doesn't make one GM better than other, but context is key.
14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:JBot will forever be tied to the Skinner deal, one of the worst in hockey history, but I do remember quite a few people on this site saying he should be paid 7 or even 8 million a year on a multi year deal and that would have been only marginally better.
Sheary imo was a fine pick up. He's still playing in Washington, a very good team, so one has to think it's us, not him.
Miller was not worth the trade, but the D was so thin when JBot got here he just rolled the dice on anybody he could get. Ended up with a big pile of jags but again, Montour's playing regular minutes in Florida. Go figure.
Even E-Rod is playing well for Pittsburgh.
After a while you really have to start to wonder...........
Do you believe Botterill was the decisive factor in signing Skinner to that contract?
Cozens vs Zegras. Did we draft the right guy?
in The Aud Club
Posted
This is why having a deeper prospect pool is important. One player being somewhat better shouldn't make or break your franchise and, if there's any consolation to this season, it's seeing multiple young players begin contributing.
I'll also insist that faster development is not necessarily better. A 20 year old on one team getting out to a fast start in their career is nice to evaluate now, but these players needs 3-5 full seasons to judge.
That said, I'm liking the center depth Buffalo has built...perhaps there aren't elite players, but all seem to have scoring touch Cozens included.