SabresVet
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Posts posted by SabresVet
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1 hour ago, JohnC said:
Did you watch this game while blindfolded? The pass he made to Olofsson for a goal was divine. Middlestadt played a good game and so did his line.
Too late. Narrative has been set that the guy is bad. No changing those minds now.
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Attendance is up almost 50% since last season and credit to the fans. Have been to a few games this season and it's a better atmosphere.
That said, they have home losses to MTL, AZ, VAN, and PHI. They've also lost 3 in 4 days now.
I attribute this to what @PerreaultForever said: they're just young.
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3 hours ago, matter2003 said:
Not even Eichel?? 😂
He's made me forget that guy. Completely.
TT has 68 goals in his last 114 games, or 49 goals per season over that duration.
He's a top 10 forward right now and I have no qualms saying that as he continues producing even with a opposing defenses acutely aware of him now.
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3 hours ago, Curt said:
I disagree with this. I don’t think there is any evidence to support it. In the past 1-2 years Buffalo has hired experienced, highly regarded people to work in the front office.
Who? They've cashiered a lot of executives in both hockey ops and business over the years. It's been a revolving door.
29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:Well that's just not accurate IMO. I think they will clear 80pts though so it is a moot point.
The Adams statement here implies that they are stuck with Adams and that he isn't very good at his job. I have seen signs of mistakes but he often corrects them and actually has an articulated plan he is following. So far the jury is still out but he's been the most cohesive and adaptive GM since Darcy. You imply that they are out of options... there are 32 GM jobs in the world, whenever anyone implies no one will take a GM job, they are honestly full of it.
I implied nothing other than what was written: that through nearly 1/3rd of the season they're on a 75 point pace. 80 still puts them 20 behind what it took last year to be the Eastern Conference's 2nd wildcard. And in the last full season before that (2018-19), that's good for 18 behind the last playoff spot.
As for culture (or in this case "cohesiveness") people glom on to this concept when results, i.e. wins aren't happening. When in doubt, pivot the debate into something not quantifiable.
As for the tired narrative of "there are 32 jobs"...not all of them are anywhere near equal. You're sadly mistaken if you think working in Arizona or Buffalo is the same as, say Tampa or New York. And that's because ownership will invest financially and provide the authority commensurate with being a NHL GM.
I get that rebuilding in the NHL takes time, but as many others have noted, their development plan seemed to clear the decks for the younger players to get PT so they would ascend faster. No matter what a fan's perspective is, this is a results driven business. What I see here is some are questioning why people get re-signed when the results in the W-L column aren't there.
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On 12/4/2022 at 1:02 PM, Sidc3000 said:
Adams definitely proved his loyalty to the Pegula’s and that will carry him farther if things don’t go as planned.
Will keeping Adams In place for a while show the league there is some stability in Buffalo? 🤷♂️ Time will tell
After the front office turmoil from 2012-2020 (Ruff to Botterill and everything in between) where else do the Pegula's go for a GM? They'll ride it out with Adams because they basically are out of options and career-minded front office types will not set foot in that organization without demanding absolute control. I seriously doubt ownership will authorize that in the wake of previous president/GM hires.
Buffalo absolutely cannot be a 75-80 point team this season and it be considered progress. Youth or no youth, the wins have to start coming more often.
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15 minutes ago, mphs mike said:
Don't know, but Barasso went straight from HS to the Aud
NHL has changed considerably in the last 40 years. Not an environment suitable for the overwhelming majority of 18-19 year olds, skaters included, to succeed.
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1 hour ago, grinreaper said:
You asked one question which was: but what demonstrates improvement for this team? Although I think I answered that, improvement in my mind is more slanted towards the "eye test" than anything else. I want to see the work effort on a regular basis that they've shown in the last three games. I want them to develop an identity and the cohesiveness that goes with it. They need to be a very "close" team that plays for each other. When they've established those characteristics then I want to see them win--a lot and be a perennial playoff team that can contend for the Cup. My recent posts here have empathized development but that is not the goal, it's part of the process that will get them to being a contender. I'm for keeping the cart behind the horse to get to the desired destination.
The part I quoted highlighted in red is where we agree. I just think the commitment to winning has to have development and culture as the path to that winning.
This season I expect quantifiable evidence of improvement, not personal subjective assessments that are likely through rose colored lenses.
None of what you listed above really helps make the playoffs and win there. It's talent combined with superior game-planning and in-game management (as @PerreaultForever already noted) is what wins.
If they are not a ~90 point team by season's end then the rebuild is effectively stuck in neutral. Some will avoid viewing it this way, but that's what it'll be. And I say that because every season players are getting older, another contract year is over, and other teams are improving.
Baby steps guarantee you never get there given what I just wrote.
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43 minutes ago, grinreaper said:
I see where you are coming from but pose a question or two that might not only give you a different perspective but also provide that perspective to the posters here that are getting impatient with progress based only on points. Would you say that the Devils failed last year because their point total was so low that they ended up 12 points behind the Sabres? Does this year's early success suggest that they may have done something right?
I asked pertinent questions...you respond with questions.
I don't follow the Devils, but I can see from their quarter-season result that their 17-4 record is no fluke. And then there's the expansion Seattle club who are out to an excellent start.
Sabres fans meanwhile (as evidenced by this thread) are seeing their team 20M south of the cap ceiling...being told they don't want vets getting ice time above their prospects. OK, but when does Buffalo and KA get awards for the most cap space? Because up thread someone astutely noted that goes away come April.
I think all people want to see is a commitment to winning that is balanced with prospect development. With some players getting healthy, maybe there's a little more time warranted.
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10 hours ago, grinreaper said:
To all you guys getting impatient and crying out for immediate change, it's not going to happen. The Sabres are going to stick to their plan and if all you guys think about it another year or two to develop our young players should make you happy in the long term. Tonight's game was against a team that we want to soon be like (but with better players). I was entertained and liked their brand. If victories are your only parameter in how you feel about this team then you will be disappointed this year and maybe some next year. I've made the decision to enjoy watching their development and progress and not get upset over a game like tonight's just because they lost. BTW, I absolutely hate losing. I'll get upset if they play sloppy or don't put the effort in. I personally am enjoying this team and players as they improve.
This is a nuanced question, but what demonstrates improvement for this team? Because the season is at the quarter pole now, so it's an acceptable sample size to compare last season (Year 0 of rebuild) to this one (Year 1).
Sabres were 8-10-3 to begin last year with 60 GF (finished 23rd) and 70 GA (finished 25th). That was a 74 point pace and they finished at 75. This season, they're 9-12-0 with 76 GF (5th in NHL) and 73 GA (27th). A 70 point pace this year.
Of course, there's more to the story and an analysis can always dive deeper. Still, I think everyone expected offensively they'd improve and that's happened, but defense has been banged up and goaltending is a TBD with UPL up, Comrie out, and Anderson playing decent.
It shouldn't remove the expectation that being a 90 or better point team this year is unreasonable. That would demonstrate progress, not pointing out that they're younger, play harder, or any of the other measures people create to justify faith in the GM and HC.
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Sabres' attendance is up 32% in the first 10 games this season compared to 2021-22.
In the first 10 games last season, attendance averaged 7,910 compared to 13,225 this year or a 67% increase.
Certainly this could decline if the losing continues, but the idea that attendance is down is flat out wrong.
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I used to go to games to see Jack and Dahlin.
After last night...I can say I go to see Dahlin and now Tage. That kid is special and it's remarkable how far he's come when it seemed like he was struggling a few years ago. Credit to the staff for developing him.
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24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:
No one here knows for sure how involved Terry has been over the last decade, but the accountability starts at the top, and he has been the top man over the last decade+ of this trainwreck.
I know someone who covers the team and Terry was opposed to drafting Russian players for some time. And, that he pushed for Botterill to give those contracts to Eichel and then Skinner. Also doesn't help they nuked their front office in early to mid 2020.
There's meddling, and then there's significant meddling. Yeah, it's their team and they can do what they want, but blaming the NHL for pushing GM candidates on them is weak. You want credit for the good moves...gotta take the heat for the bad ones too.
As it relates to the article, we've learned very little about this rebuild because it's incomplete although there are signs this is in a better direction. That said, last year was Year 0. 2022-23 is Year 1.
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Such a phenomenal show. Television may be in a golden age of sorts with all the content being produced, but Better Call Saul is at the top of the list.
Just finished the black and white episode 10 and it's shaping up to be a ride. I just can't see Jimmy (Saul) remaining in sleepy Omaha and not trying to break out of that rut. And that Is what will be his undoing.
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3 hours ago, Thorny said:
If we haven’t made it by 2024, Dahlin will have matched Eichel’s Sabres playoff drought mark of 6 seasons w/o
And he'll be out the door because the team has not successfully rebuilt.
The Pegs' insistence on having "their" man at GM (after trusting Botterill, Murray, and Regier) is indicative of major trust issues borne of their own bad decisions.
And when ownership is paranoid and refuses to hire people from outside the organization because they have trust issues it's not always a net win.
Hopefully the talent being assembled will get them into the playoffs soon. Still, as someone said upthread, Adams and Granato still have a lot to prove. But if they're not in the playoffs within 2 seasons I'd hope ownership would not stay the course because they can't trust someone else.
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16 hours ago, triumph_communes said:
Buffalo was only out of the playoffs because of abysmal goaltending. If they got average goaltending now they’re jumping way ahead of these teams.
And who is responsible for ensuring NHL-quality goalies are on the roster?
Adams walked into a bad situation with little in the minors, but did himself no favors. It seemed like last season there was no backup plan if Ullmark didn't re-sign leaving only Anderson and a host of journeyman. Not surprising their goaltending was a weak spot and lost them games.
For all the credit the GM gets for improving the organizational talent at F and D, his moves in goal have been uninspiring. Perhaps Comrie gives them 40-50 games and there's improvement but that remains to be seen.
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4 teams in the Atlantic Division basically lapped the other 4 into the playoffs and of those, only Boston might take a step down next season.
The "lapped" teams were BUF, DET, OTT, and MON and of those, it's concerning that DET and OTT are going hard to compete in 2022-23. MON is not far behind them. Slow and steady is nice for nursery rhymes, but I'm not sure it's always the way to go in the NHL.
Yet, Buffalo is taking the slow, steady, and cautious approach banking on youth to arrive while building their prospect pipeline. That, and fitting in low cost UFAs to theoretically be in position to re-sign their own when the time arrives.
Adams' plan is to do this and have it come together under the HC, but that must be viewed as it relates to how this is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in the NHL.
Improving perhaps 5-10 points per season while others are taking a bigger leap will only be appreciated by the hardest of hard core fans. Unless most of their young players come on strong, Buffalo may find themselves looking up in the standings more than most here would want or hope for.
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10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Good. If he sucks, well at least we tried. Hoping he actually rocks out.
Setting the bar real higher there, eh?
I don't expect the Cup FInal, but this mentality of "we tried" is a low standard. It's as if people are afraid to have expectations of success because it's safer to be a pessimist and just say I told ya so if it doesn't work out.
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11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Bingo. Yzerman has name recognition and Detroit doesn't have an 11 year drought of uselessness to contend with.
Then maybe Buffalo should have done a real GM search a few years ago when the Pegula's were feeling snakebitten by the NHL in the wake of Botterill's axing. Yeah, it's in the past, but this is the price you pay for ownership being paranoid and not willing to hand over the keys to someone versed in a front office.
Adams is here now, but I think there'd be more interest in veterans going to Buffalo if they and their agents were as confident about his steering this ship. Not gonna sit well with the fans, but that's what we're coming down to.
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Just now, JohnC said:
I still believe that KA will add another goalie to the mix. There are still second and third tier goalies that can be procured via trade for a low price. The GM is looking for a discounted bargain.
Buffalo seems stuck in a bad spiral this off-season and last with goalies They badly need help to win games and build up their core of young players. But they're getting rejected by those goalies they seem interested in who have certain no-trade clauses. If the options continue to dwindle and they're back with a less than an average situation at goalie, then their prospects will be put into the unenviable position of having to overcome said goaltending.
Sure, they could find someone to today or tomorrow or next week, but this becoming Adams' Achilles. Especially when you see Portillo and Levi return to school with a better path to reaching the pros faster than in most other organizations.
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2 hours ago, JohnC said:
Since the GM was installed, he has repeatedly publicly stated his philosophy on rebuilding this franchise. There is no hidden agenda. Every time he is interviewed his robotic response is the same: The word patience is included in almost all his sentences. The over-arching rebuild strategy in his rebuild is to "draft and develop". There really is nothing innovative about it because it is a standard approach that is widely used. Yzerman took that approach when he was with Detroit (successfully so), then with Tampa (successfully so) and is now employing it back in Detroit (starting to show results).
We all agree that there needs to be a goalie upgrade. What's obvious is obvious. And most of us agree that a solid veteran defenseman and forward should be added. But it is unlikely that a high cost and top tier player will be filling any of those positions. Would I like to see the GM go after the best goalie available? Absolutely! But based on what the GM has stated and on how he has operated during his tenure I don't see him taking that more costly road.
Yzerman's track record versus Adams' are vastly different and to compare the two's strategy is absurd. Adams mismanaged the goalie situation and seemed to be caught flat-footed when Ullmark left and did not recover. The GM has a lot to prove although he's had a lot thrown at him.
I understand that, emotionally speaking, people want to believe in this regime because it's different than previous ones which were either way too cautious (Botterill) or too audacious (Murray). Neither produced a team close to the playoffs, but to avoid taking risks to hide behind a draft and develop mindset.
Also have not expectation for a big UFA or trade this off-season, but I'm done with setting low expectations because it's safe to expect they'll meet them. Success this season is seeing the young players move closer to being productive NHL players and win. Because you don't truly "draft and develop" without the W's.
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25 minutes ago, JohnC said:
You are making the assumption that the Sabres won't be competitive this upcoming season. Why? There certainly is a void in net right now but it is more likely than not that another goalie will be brought in. In the last third of the season the Sabres were very much so a competitive team. And there is no doubt that the young players currently on the roster such as Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Tage, Cozens, Mitts etc. will improve. It will be internal improvement more than the added players that will make the Sabres a better team.
I understand how one can be impatient and skeptical with this organization but I don't understand your level of despair when there is visible evidence that the team will be better.
The definition for "competitive" leaves plenty of room for what that means next season. Is a 75 point season competitive? No? How about 85 points and 10 or more outside the playoffs? To me, competitive in 2022-23 is challenging for the playoffs and nothing less.
What is often lost on this board is a sense of urgency. Taking baby steps toward a better team and being content with not being mediocre is how you stay a bottom third of the NHL quality team. Besides, with guys like Dahlin and a few others, they need to see this franchise start winning or they'll be looking to leave.
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9 hours ago, nfreeman said:
This is reasonable, but at the same time, this is a thread about VGK firing their coach. It's also reasonable that in a thread about the fallout from a disappointing VGK season in which they traded for the Sabres' former franchise player, who left here on bad terms and then criticized the fans when he returned, and for whom the franchise stupidly threw away a decade, there will be some speculation about whether that player is bad medicine.
DeBoer being fired is more correlation and less causality to Jack given that he played less than half the season for Vegas. If anything, the expectations were upped on the HC and, despite Eichel's delayed arrival, VGK assessed a need to change coaches.
He did leave on very bad terms and it was perhaps the most complex situation between a disgruntled NHL player and their team in years. And yes, I'd agree moving the one-time franchise player is a seminal event in any team's history but there's a line when people make it personal versus evaluating it in terms of trade value.
Holding grievances long past their expiration date is a corrosive element to life. And sports ain't life. It's entertainment.
I'll drop this now.
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19 hours ago, nfreeman said:
You are certainly right that proving a negative is tricky to impossible, and that many here have an ax to grind with Eichel. And as others have noted upthread, the Sabres were highly dysfunctional for Jack's entire time here, so it's unfair to pin everything on him.
But still -- there's more than a little smoke indicating that he's not a great team guy, and Vegas' record got significantly worse immediately upon him joining the lineup, and when he's on a team, coaches get fired. And we're here on the internet in the offseason speculating as to whether he's a big problem for his teams. Is it really unreasonable to ask whether anyone's seen any positive indicators about his team spirit?
I agree that Jack has an edge to him and is not naturally personable. I don't understand why and perhaps it's related to his status as extremely talented starting at a young age. Also think we all agree that placing the 'C' on him at an early age was a mistake largely because the room needed better examples to younger players. (I'm pointing at Kane, perhaps Bogosian).
Just don't understand the continual knives out fans have for former players. I'd like to move on from the past and look toward the future with players here now.
Jack's old news.
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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:
Serious question: is there any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Eichel is NOT a destructive, toxic presence?
I know a number of his former teammates have spoken in support of him, but I kinda think they're just following the rules, and there are also plenty of his former teammates who have spoken negatively about him.
Has he ever been part of a positive team situation? For his 1 year at BU, he led the team in scoring as a freshman and they made it to the NCAA title game, so presumably that was a great season. Does anyone know whether that was regarded as a close-knit team?
He put Eichel's face on it though -- so he improved the meme.
The old prove a negative fallacy argument. I could just as easily ask is there any evidence that says the Buffalo Sabres aren't going to be sold? Or, what evidence is there that Kevyn Adams isn't gonna be the next team president? Someone on a message board or a report emerged which means there's some smoke...ergo it must be true. 🤣
Dude got traded almost 7 months. Played in 34 games. End result? Coach Killer. 🤣 Has to be...we don't like that guy. 🤣
Sabres Trade Deadline 2023 Discussion
in The Aud Club
Posted · Edited by SabresVet
With less than 2 days remaining there's fair possibility of something happening.
Although, it's hard to tell if the Sabres are buyers or sellers at this point after their recent moves One would think it'd be obvious with their performance so far they are not sellers.