[Overall, the Sabres have been an above-average team defensively]

It means they are just as bad if not worse overall than last season and exponentially more boring!

Give me bad and fun 1000x more then bad and boring.

#freekrebs

[GDT: Sabres @ Pens - Sat. 7 pm ET, Jan 6, 2024 MSG-B, SN-PIT, ESPN+ 📺 WGR 📻]

We now know the DG is not an advanced stats guy, but just basic stats and eyeballs say sitting R Johnson or Joki while playing E Johnson makes the team measurably worse.  I just don’t get it.

I guess the whole “don’t want to block young players” doesn’t apply anymore, especially when it seems to be working so well sitting 6 from the bottom in league.

[In December and your team is failing - Adams Do Something Substantive Already!]

12 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

LOL - The current rate - 69 points this season.  To make the playoffs, need to average 1.4 points per game the rest of the way.  

Currently have to play at about a 110pt pace rest of way to get in.

[In December and your team is failing - Adams Do Something Substantive Already!]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

That is NOT what he said when he bought the team.  

He said the reason "for the Sabres existence is to win Stanley Cups".  He said if he needed more money to do it, then he would "drill another well".  

To sit back and let this happen for 12+ years, Terry Pegula is full of 

 

Yep, as are most billionaires and sports team owners.

[In December and your team is failing - Adams Do Something Substantive Already!]

21 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

This feels so surprising since Terry supposedly loves hockey and gave money to Penn State for their hockey program.  For someone who has been so successful in life, hard to imagine he wants to just settle for mediocrity.

His definition of success is not wins and championships, it’s sustained profits for himself and his family.  I’m sure he considers himself successful, he doesn’t need or partially care if championships are a part of that portfolio.

[In December and your team is failing - Adams Do Something Substantive Already!]

7 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

And that accountability needs to start at the top with ownership.  It’s high time that winning actually became the number one organizational goal.  Not just “sustained winning over many years” but actually winning NOW.  Start winning now and then work towards sustaining it.

This franchise punishes its fans.

Terry is not interested in winning a championship with either team.  He wants PSE to have “sustained” profits, and teams that are “stable” with a bunch of nice culture guys.

[So now what?]

9 hours ago, Spoonman said:

Sabres. Mediocrity. Again.

Why?

> Very poor roster construction. I get the draft and develop, but GMKA is showing his lack of experience…. Did not bring in veteran leadership that is making a difference on and off ice (OK, I will grove you EJ Sr.) Not enough. One word: Detroit…. (see below)

> Early injuries.  Every team has injuries. The injuries have exposed Sabre's lack of depth.  Exhibit one: 11/7 lineups 

> Coaching. Something is just not connecting.

• Too much youth and guys who made roster easily in prior seasons, with a small handful of veterans, but that is the cards dealt.
• Not enough accountability. Need to sit guys.  
• The majority of the coaching staff is young in years on NHL staffs. Meatballs has a total of 7 yrs. 

> No winning leadership. (players 29 yrs. up) - less than 80 playoff games of experience on the team (only 2 players to boot)

• Oakie and Z have not won in the league. Oakie 24 playoff games, Z = ZERO
• Skinny "Between Two Stalls" is on hiatus, and he is not a leader. Also ZERO playoff experience
• EJ Sr. adding value on PK early, but not sure what he can do on his own in his first (and only) year w Sabres. 55 NHL games, and a Cup.

        None is enough to show the young ins what winning NHL hockey takes.

Management:

• GMKA's focus seems to be way too much on culture, and not enough on results, and accountability.
• Did a good job moving and getting some good value for Jack, Rino, and Risto.
• Great that he talks with other GMs regularly. So, that got us what?
• So far seems to love “his guys”.
  • Needs to put on his big boy pants and make the necessary deals to get this roster construction in a better place.
  • Need to move guys, prospects, picks, and use cap space in smart, bold trades to grow this team.

This is where it gets hard Kev...

Detroit's rebuild included a mix of veterans and younger players. Now have added (will see what happens) Kane mid year.

Sabres' latest rebuild:

• Drafting and developing young players. OK. 
• Veteran leadership (see above). Not acceptable.
• Did nothing of note in off-season (unless you want to argue: 1/ Oakie's buddy EJ Sr and 2/ Clifton, another US Developmental League guy from Granato's time there). .Weak tea.

This form of "rebuild" takes more time than we the fans are able to deal with anymore, after 12 years and talk in the preseason of playoffs (everyone drinking the Kool aid).....as THE DROUGHT, as this team is presently built and coached, looks to continue.

Whatcha gonna do GMKA, Donnie, Terry?

Terry isn’t going to do anything!!!  Terry is more concerned with stability than actually winning championships.  Both the Sabres and Bills are structured exactly how he wants them.  Both teams are filled with management, coaches and players that are “culture” and “process” oriented first, which always gives him a convenient out when they under perform.

Terry is not driven by winning Championships period.  He has been completely absent from both teams for years, while he largely lives on his yacht in Florida.  I understand currently being there for Kim and her recovery, but then delegate or restructure the organizations so there is way more accountability.  The only time he has been seen or heard from is to cut the ribbon on his new cash register in Orchard Park after stealing/taking 950 million dollars from NYS residents.

The managements, coaches and players of both teams kind of love this setup.  They can do what they want, play how they want and not worry about any real accountability from anyone.  These teams are both not driven entities of excellence but complete country clubs and that ALL starts with Terry!

I always thought that the Bills were just a cash register to Terry, just there to make him look good in public and bring in a sh*t ton of money.  But I really did think he cared about the Sabres.  I had faith the Sabres would get it right under his ownership because he seemed to truly love the team and its history.  Man, I just don’t know anymore.

This all starts with Terry, he has created this atmosphere with both teams.  If he truly can’t take command and demand better for whatever reason he should just cash out and sell them both.

[The Arizona Coyotes Arena Referendum fails to pass]

The new Houston Aeros.  Actually one of the coolest sweaters out there.

[Chychrun to Ottawa]

[How bad is Casey Mittelstadt?]

57 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Chicago's first goal was on Mittlestadt and I still don't care about Sam Bennett.

Didn’t get any better. Yikes

[Rochester Americans Have Addressed A Racist Incident]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I guess your unique experiences can lead to your own conclusions, but I do not agree. It’s why I feel compelled to respond. I don’t want someone who doesn’t live here to take your statement as fact. 

I am a ROC native (lived in Gates, Spencerport high school, SUNY Brockport). 
I have lived in the city since 2005 (upon returning from 1.5 years in FL), and a city of ROC homeowner since 2007. 

Racism is not unique to this area. Nor do I see it more pronounced than other regions of this country. 
Nothing about this event is unique to this area, except the fact that they were objectifying local politicians. But again, not a unique circumstance.

***** like this happens everywhere.  And it is sad. But it doesn’t speak for the region. And maybe you shouldn’t either. 🤷‍♂️

Rochester is literally the most segregated school district area in the country.  If you want to learn more about the some of the history of Rochester that isn’t taught to us in school, here is a start.  This is research from RIT and Yale, not just OP EDs from New York Times.  BTW, I’m white, grew up in upper middle class house in Fairport, and most of my family went to SUNY schools and still live in area today.

https://reporter.rit.edu/news/redlining-rochester

https://landmarksociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ShaneWiegand_Redlining-Segregation_web.pdf
 

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/area/clinic/document/2020.7.31_-_confronting_racial_covenants_-_yale.city_roots_guide.pdf
 

 

[Rochester Americans Have Addressed A Racist Incident]

I grew up in Rochester, have lived in Florida and Texas.  Rochester is more racist then either Florida and Texas.  This is not a surprise.

[GDT - Bruins at Sabres - November 24, 2021 - 7:00 PM (EST) - MSG and WGR]

KA had to know this goaltending wasn’t close to being NHL level right?
If yes, why did he do it?

[Sabrespace Demographic Poll]

Grew up in Rochester, have lived in Denver area for past 9 years.

[Should KA Let Jack Get The Surgery He Wants?]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jack can have the surgery he wants at any time.  He just runs the risk of the Sabres suspending him without pay or voiding his contract.  The reason there is an impass is that Jack wants his $50 mill also.  Unfortunately for Jack, the Sabres are saying the insurance on your contract doesn't cover the surgery you want and therefore we can't approve it.  Essentially Jack wants his surgery but wants the Sabres to take all the risk.  The Sabres correctly are saying forget it.  

I’m sure the union won’t let Jack assume the risk from the surgery also, even if wanted to.  So this seems it is now more about insurance policies vs union CBA. 

[Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Well, that makes total sense since very, very little of this situation is KA’s to handle in the first place. As I’ve repeated numerous times, he doesn’t have the authority to overrule the medical course recommended by team doctors.

Maybe Jack could consult with Kris Letang about the ACDF surgery to allay his concerns a bit. Letang seems to have recovered quite nicely after his surgery.

If he can’t overrule this, it might help to publicly say so.  Something like, “I understand Jacks position, but I don’t have the authority to make it happen.  It’s out of my hands.”

[Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He's got literally nothing for Jack now, as opposed to your version of nothing.

His plan seems to be "if I wait long enough some GM will pay a 'healthy Eichel' price for a 'broken' Eichel."

Or "If I wait long enough, this man will agree to a major surgery he clearly doesn't want."

 

If both sides stand firm, I can’t see a current scenario where the value of Jack improves with time.  It’s like the Sabres are playing the long game on a depreciating asset.  Sometimes you have to sell at a loss while it’s still a loss not a zero.

[Kevyn Adams has botched the Eichel situation horribly]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I can’t seem to find any articles on college hockey players getting the ADR surgery. Can you point me in the right direction? That testimony would be a boon to Eichel I would think. 

It is coming from Jacks doctor, so one could certainly question its validity.  None the less its stated in this article.

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/sabres/is-surgery-the-right-move-for-jack-eichel

[Kevyn Adams has botched the Eichel situation horribly]

The problem from Sabres POV is the asset they are going to sit on is a depreciating one, only chance to stop the depreciation is to get him healthy one way or the other.

I understand the NHL doesn’t want one of their star players to go rogue, but there is no way they want one of their star players rotting on the vine for 1-2 years in his prime either.  Wonder if and when the NHL and NHLPA get involved beyond the basic CBA.

Also read here and other place that the replacement is experimental, my understanding it is not.  It’s a really common surgery, even been done on college hockey players, just never on a NHL player.

[Kevyn Adams has botched the Eichel situation horribly]

25 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

As for part two, they could suspend him without pay for breach of contract. Therefore they would not be on the hook to pay Jack, and Jack would not be able to sign with another team. This is the same logic that stops players refusing to report to terminate their contract and sign with a new team. Should they do this, they could then unsuspend him when he passed a medical - however, I don't know what would happen if Jack then got paralysed from the ADR slipping whilst making a hockey play. Perhaps the Sabres could refuse to pay the rest of the contract? Voiding the contract would require full negotiation of a new contract I believe.

Technicalities aside the point is clear - if Eichel gets the surgery without Sabres' approval, he is no longer guaranteed the $50 million he is owed. Which is why he hasn't done it.

They won’t terminate his contract if he just goes had has his surgery, he then is no longer an asset to them.  Jack has already made over 50 million, if he has been smart with his money he could let Sabres suspend him without pay.  Even if it was for a year my guess Jack would be just fine financially and the Sabres as a franchise would be tanked for years.  No player would ever sign here unless the had to, and none of our good players would ever sign a contract extension here.  It would be irresponsible to the franchise in the long term, and that’s what KA job is right?
 

If I were Jack I would just go have surgery and put it back on Sabres, and hope to be ready for the Olympics.  If I was KA I would have either let him have it right away or held the line till trading deadline.  If all I got was bag of pucks offers I would let him have his surgery and work tirelessly to restore as much of his value as possible to trade him.  That’s what’s best for the Sabres in short and long term.

[Kevyn Adams has botched the Eichel situation horribly]

8 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Respectfully, the thought that piece provoked in me was “holy mackerel, how can Vogl ignore the $50MM elephant in the room and mischaracterize the issue so badly?”

He utterly failed to mention, let alone discuss, the key issue, which is who bears the $50MM risk of this surgery — which is not medically advised — going wrong?

He also repeatedly, and wrongly, asserted that the Sabres were preventing Eichel from making decisions as to his own medical care.  That is simply false.  Jack can have whatever surgery or acupuncture or leeches treatment he wants tomorrow.  He just can’t do so AND require the Sabres to pay him $50MM.

If Vogl thinks players should have the right to decide on their own medical care and hold the teams to their contracts — I don’t agree, but he’s certainly welcome to his opinion.  It’s not from outer space.  But ignoring the issue — or, even worse, not even recognizing the issue — is very weak sauce editorializing indeed, IMHO. 

Jack would love for Sabres to void his contract, Sabres won’t do it getting nothing for him.  In fact I think this is one way this ends, Jack just has his surgery anyway and dares Sabres to do something.   
 

Sabres may have short term leverage, and have the NHL CBA on their side.   Yet, it only gets worse for them in terms of trade return and lasting damage to team as a franchise long term.

If they had just let him have his surgery in April it would have either worked and he is back or traded.  If it didn’t work he would just now be having the fusion surgery the Sabres wanted and on his way back and tradable.  He is literally nothing to the Sabres now and for foreseeable future, that is horrible for the Sabres as a team now and in the future.

But yeah, at least he showed them right?  Held the line!  Classic case of wanting to be right, instead of getting it right.

[Kevyn Adams has botched the Eichel situation horribly]

Not interested in seeing how good or bad KA or Jack has handled this up till now.  Bigger question is how will this end, it needs to end.

1). Fails physical today and put on LTIR.  Jack sits at home and gets paid till next summer where his no trade kicks in.

2). KA allows Jack surgery, probably with Jack giving Sabres something in return.  Jack heals fine, returns to Sabres, plays in Olympics then gets traded by deadline in Spring.  If that happens they could have done that in March and avoided this mess.

3). KA plays hardball and forces Sabres surgery, terminates contract if he doesn’t.  Then he gets nothing for him at all.

4). Jack just has surgery, Sabres terminate contract or sue him?
 

Not sure if KA has as much leverage as he thinks.  Plus I’m sure Terry is calling these shots, which makes it much worse.  My opinion is he should allow Jack his surgery, hedge/insure best you can, get what you can.  Not seeing any other option that is good for Sabres organization in long term.

[Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation]

13 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Jack has $50M to lose. So does Terry. As a team of players, the Sabres have already moved on. Getting assets back for Jack is merely icing on the cake now. They be fine even if Jack sits and they get nothing. 

Ultimately I don’t think Terry is interested in paying Jack 10 million to sit on LTIR.  If Sabres go completely nuclear and void his contract for not getting their surgery, they will lose big time in long run.  No players will ever want to come here whether signed in FA or drafted as long as TP still owned the team.

 

I feel the quickest/best way to move forward and rebuild again something sustainable is to let him have his surgery, get what you can and turn the page.  It sucks, but I think they should be more interested in getting it right then being right.

[Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The game of refusing to address Jack's need for surgery prior to a trade.

I think @nfreeman raises a good point though: it's likely not a game, it's a standoff, with each side refusing the other's desired path.

And one the Sabres will likely ultimately have to give in some on.  It’s just silly now.  Allow him to have surgery ASAP, then trade him for the best you can when healthy.  Jack to me has all the leverage, Sabres have more to lose.

[Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

This might be in the worst possible interests for the team.  The team needs to protect that asset absolutely.

My questions:

Wondering how much value that asset still has currently and going forward?

Is his value more likely to decrease or increase with time given current situation?

Whats the value to the organization to not have to deal with this anymore and be able to just move on?