JohnC
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Posts posted by JohnC
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2 hours ago, Hoss said:
Read the interaction again. I never said it was Sabres approved. The original post never said it was Sabres approved. I was just noting that it is indeed doctor approved even if the Sabres doctors allegedly don’t approve it.
You left who the preeminent doctor who approved of the surgery.
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24 minutes ago, inkman said:
Which is the whole point of me bringing it up
This is simply Bullshiit! It is bloody con job. I paid for the hockey Directv hockey package with the expectations to have the ability to watch all the games with them and some games on other not for pay sports stations. I'm being hustled by fraudster in pinstriped suits.
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5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
My guess is no.
This is Bullshiiit!
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45 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
I have both Hulu and ESPN+, but I'm busy till 9:30. Will have to catch it on replay. No one tell me the score.
Do you know if DirecTv NHL hockey package will cover this game? It didn't indicate that it will on the schedule. If not I'll be upset! This is BullShiiit!
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5 hours ago, K-9 said:
Stranger things have certainly happened. And I give you credit for the unbridled optimism. But…
Trust me my optimism on this issue is not unbridled. I'm aware that it's very likely that Jack will eventually be dealt. I just feel strongly that if you have a significant asset, even if is currently diminished, then that asset should not be dealt for less than full value. And because of his injury status it is going to take time for the value to be restored. As I have stated before I believe that KA is handling this situation very well.
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Just now, K-9 said:
Do you honestly feel Eichel wants to play here and prefers that to being “jettisoned?” Of all the ways to describe trading a player, “jettisoned” is the most emotional I’ve seen.
I'm aware that the organization wants to move him and the player wants out. That's the situation right now. However, the stance by the GM is that he wants a high return back for him. Most people agree with that position. As of now the market indicates a severe diminution of his value because of his questionable health status. It is likely that a long time is going to pass before he will be dealt in order for his value to be restored. There is a good chance that it might not happen until the offseason. Can the situation change and the bad blood between the parties change to accommodation? I believe so. Most people don't.
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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
I can accept that. Getting Wormtongue/Rasputin gone was a significant help in changing the direction.
The point that I and a very few others have been making is that the situation with the team and the organization was in a downward spiral. And with Granato as the coach there is a completely different environment in which a healthy Jack would not only thrive but also significantly benefit the team. So far in this early stage of the season this team is doing well. That' encouraging. However, it still lacks talent to be considered a serious team. Jettisoning one of the top players in the league (when healthy) for pennies on the dollar in my opinion is the wrong approach to take.
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28 minutes ago, Taro T said:
Which is fine. Don't see how any of that is relevant to what you're replying to.
I don't understand what you are getting at. The simple solution is just don't respond back. I say this with no rancor.
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9 minutes ago, Thorny said:
Probably the best post and take I've seen on the matter by a fair amount, and significantly better than anything I've cobbled together on the issue.
Quote eternal on that one
Very illuminating due to the contextualizing of the issue. Quite a contrast compared to the caricaturing and demonizing of a player on this topic. I understand why there are different/conflicting perspectives coming from the organization and the player. It's a multifaceted and complex issue that too many people try to simplify. It's not about good guys and bad guys. Each party to this saga is trying to act in their own best interest. In the real world life isn't always simple.
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Within this WGR link is a 17 min segment with Seth Appert, the coach of the Amerks, talking about the young players on the team. He talks about the young players and what they are doing in their developmental process.
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17 hours ago, dudacek said:
Can't say I disagree with any of this (my long-held belief Reinhart was limited by turning him into Eichel's hand-picked lackey, notwithstanding).
I agree that Jack is an unselfish, competitive hockey player on the ice, and that any negative elements to his makeup off the ice won't really be issues in most organizations.
The bolded, not the on-ice play, is primarily what I was getting at. I think there is also the related elements of Jack (rightly or wrongly) blaming the organization for not getting him the proper support and the (conscious or unconscious) implication he consequently sent out to the team's rank-and-file that they were less than worthy.
We've heard Granato talk about players needing to "get wet" in order to develop. I think there have been large portions of the Sabres locker room in recent years who never felt fully invested in the team's success or failures because they essentially felt like the peon down in the mail room. Shut up, stay in your lane and get out of the way.
Thus players outside the immediate core got stunted in their development, and the core got frustrated and shortchanged because there was nobody behind them to pick up the slack. That's primarily an organizational failure not a Jack failure.
My evidence for this is the past 25 games, the obviously calculated switch in focus from "core" to "team" and the apparent across-the-board growth happening as a result.
I'm not saying a core-based culture can't work, or that we won't need to move back in that direction at some point to go on a run. I am saying the core-based culture built under Murray and Krueger didn't work and needed to be flushed.
Jack is less the cause than he is collateral damage.
As @Thornyaptly stated very nuanced and an incisive analysis of the situation.
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18 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
You have no idea about mine or others locker room experience. I played hockey throughout high school at a pretty high level and also played as an adult. I’ve have plenty of locker room experience thank you very much. The key to a locker room is how willing is the team to work together toward a goal. When players become a problem it can ruin a team. That’s why Kane was expelled from WPG and why he should have never been acquired. I’ve been on teams that worked together and others that were clicky and that usually lead to finger pointing when things didn’t go well. I believe that’s what we saw last year in Buffalo and Jack and Hall were at the heart of the issue. Jack has always sulked when things didn’t go well.
I believe putting Jack back on this team would be a mistake. New leaders have taken over and they don’t need someone like Jack to come in and ruin the new culture they are trying to establish of unity and effort.
Yes this team needs more talent, but I’d much rather that come from within and from guys who are growing together.
Name a Sabre coach who has directly or indirectly described Jack as a problem in the locker room? Name a player who has directly or indirectly described Jack as a problem in the locker room? There is a negative narrative being made and advanced without supporting evidence. The demonizing of a player without supporting evidence is not fair or right.
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18 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:
Actually, I think it comes from the narrative (whether or not it is true) that Adams was seeking to move Jack before the injury became an issue because Jack "didn't want to be here", just like he moved Risto and Reino. That doesn't mean that any of those three players were dressing room problems, just that KA wanted to move them because with their desire to be elsewhere he didn't think they would buy into Team Granato, and didn't want to force them to. I was hopeful Jack would be back as a Sabre for a long time, even after the rumors that KA was trying to move him surfaced, but at this point I've accepted a move as pretty much inevitable.
Given that he's likely on his way out, it's easier to believe negatives assigned to him.
You nailed it. That's exactly the point that @Thornyand I have made on this topic. I reject this demonizing of this particular player. It is not right and fair.
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15 hours ago, Taro T said:
Yep, you and @Thorny are the only 2 people here that want Eichel back. <_<
Sadly, Adams wanted Eichel gone prior to the neck injury & related drama. Really don't see a way he gets his mind changed on that front.
I agree with you that Adams doesn't want Eichel back. However, there were arguments made that he wouldn't fit in with a Granato coached team. I strenuously disagree with that point. His talents clearly do match with the style of play that the coach wants his team to play. And there were repeated comments that Eichel was a cancer in the room. Again, I disagree with that unfair characterization of him and his character. There were a number of comments made about the disharmony of the room with Jack and harmony without him. I disagree with the notion that locker rooms in most sports are a sacred space comprised of a group of blood brothers. That's a big stretch from reality. More often than not the locker room is made up of disparate personalities that play hard for each other and then after the games go their separate ways. The idyllic scene in the room is not as real as many believe it to be.
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1 minute ago, Thorny said:
Granato also fielded a question about the room a while back, where I believe Jack was included within the context, Granato answered a little more pointedly than usual and his answer was basically: no one understands/knows what the room is actually like, the players are different than you see in interviews, the atmosphere is positive and upbeat. He’s been in the room with all of them - but this isn’t a place many are choosing to put the weight they usually attribute to his comments.
I have heard Granato speak warmly about Jack and express empathy for what he is going through. The coach pointed out that one of the most talented players in the world whose life and identity revolve around a game he has passion for has for an extended period of time had the game taken away from him. And he pointed out that there are no guarantees that he might ever play again or if he does return to the ice might never be the player he was because of his injury. You don't think that Jack is aware that there are risks and things might not work out as he wants it to?
The harsh critics seem to forget that before he is a hockey player he is a human being who is undergoing a very challenging period of time where his life has been in many respects uprooted. It seems that Granato has a good grasp on the concept of " compassion" while many people who are looking in don't.
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3 hours ago, dudacek said:
How about the skating 15-minutes-a-night, roll four balanced lines equally part?
(Jack's play style and skill set on the ice can fit with any coach's preferred play style. That's one of the defining characteristics of elite players.)
I'm very confident that Granato will work out how best to use Jack. Whether that is maximum minutes or a reduction of minutes this very adroit coach will work out a schedule that will most benefit the team.
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4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
No he wouldn’t. He is a me first player and a locker room problem. His presence would ruin the United identity they are trying to foster
He is not a locker room problem. He might not be warmly embraced or chummy with everyone in the room but that doesn't make him a malignant presence. You and the majority of contributors here have this naive misconception that locker rooms are only populated with best of friends. That idyllic view has little resemblance to the reality of locker rooms in all sports or even workplaces in general. The Buffalo Bills in their hay day were called the bickering Bills. But when it came to playing they were effective.
The notion that Jack couldn't fit in or even adjust to a Granato coached team is a product of one's animus toward a player. What's happening here is that a jaundiced view of a player is influencing one's perception of how much he can help this team.
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2 minutes ago, darksabre said:
I would like to see it, but the org has long since made up its mind about Jack. They don't want him on this team anymore.
I don't deny that the organization has conclusively made a decision to move on. However, sometimes over time the situation can change.
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Just now, SwampD said:
Only the Kucherov thing actually happened.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the Jack situation! Even the team's doctor recommends a serious surgery to address his injury.
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8 minutes ago, Thorny said:
It was basically never suggested over the past several years our play on ice was too Jack-centric, that he was being selfish out there and forcing the game to be funnelled through him. Come on - that was never a thing. He's a distributor out there, he gets other players the puck, he's not a selfish hockey player on ice at all.
If I had a criticism of Jack it was for passing too much (most notably on PP) than shooting too much. As good as Jack was if he played on a more talented team he would even be better. The shame of this situation is that the team has the right coach and the organization is steadily upgrading the talent.
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Just now, SwampD said:
Wouldn’t it be cool if this whole neck and trade thing was all a ruse and Jack and KA are pulling a Kucherov for the playoffs.
You sound like a Qanon member with a zany conspiracy theory. ☠️
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1 minute ago, OverPowerYou said:
Jack Eichel is the 2017 Sammy Watkins that was traded. All the potential in the world that could’ve helped the bills tremendously but not a fit on the team for many reasons
Skinner, Dahlin and a slew of players were not good fits for Krueger. Under Granato that changed. As I have repeatedly said this Granato style of play is a perfect match for Jack. And that can't be denied.
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20 minutes ago, Thorny said:
And Granato isn't known as a defensive coach, right? Shows he's been good at maximizing what a team has to offer, which probably bodes well if he's given more talent to work with
You and I may be the only two inhabitants on this board who would love to see a healthy Jack back on this team. Granato's system that is predicated on speed and north/south play is an ideal fit for Jack's elite skill set. I understand the complexities of the Jack situation and how it relates to his relationship with the organization. But if there was a way to make the situation it could be tremendously beneficial for him and the organization. Some times time heals and sometimes it doesn't. Usually when people act on animus it end up being self-defeating.
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10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
I doubt he'd like playing for this team. This is a real team with everyone so far getting equal minutes and putting forth equal effort. Jack would be annoyed that everything isn't being run through him.
If Jack was on a line that was scoring goals at a higher rate than the other lines it would have more ice time than the other lines. In the style of play that Granato emphasizes that is predicated on speed and north/south play Jack's specific talents would be a terrific fit. There are some legitimate reasons to be critical of Jack but as a player his talents and how it would benefit this team shouldn't blithely be dismissed. Don't kid yourself a healthy Jack on this still developing team would elevate this team and its ranking in the league.
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Jack Quinn is fine and probably good.
in The Aud Club
Posted
Within a year or so the Sabres will add Peterka, Quinn, Power and Samuelsson to the Buffalo roster. Assuming that there will be a Jack trade another player or two could be added to next year's roster. The rebuilding strategy to grow the young core is being executed. Stay the course.