Torpedo Forecheck
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Posts posted by Torpedo Forecheck
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30 minutes ago, kas23 said:
Since you’ve had “first hand experience with the guy”, did you ask him about why he’s remaining silent about Frost forcing an underaged boy to have sex at gunpoint? There’s pictures, it’s not like it didn’t happen, but the case went nowhere without witnesses speaking up. Should he get a 2nd or 3rd chance for that? I don’t really care about the unsportsmanlike behavior, but the other stuff is disgusting.
Your posts speak for themselves. Weak IMO
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Wow, I can't believe the takes on here from some of you. Best of luck but not worth my time.
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31 minutes ago, kas23 said:
How many teenagers do you know, or have known, that have made similar poor decisions? This wasn’t a teenager going out for a night of joyriding in their parents’ car or smoking pot. It was a pattern over the span of years. Many of these things are clearly immoral, not just illegal. A misguided, but overall good kid, wouldn’t have let those events at the cabin go buried. This has nothing to do with his ability to coach, but it shows a lack of critical decision making, a basic inability to distinguish right from wrong, and the propensity to be easily manipulated. These are things that don’t easily fade into adulthood and I doubt the Pegulas would hire such a person.
C'mon. I guess you've never needed a second or third chance like most of us have. I actually have first hand experience with the guy and what you said is a croc of BS.
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18 minutes ago, kas23 said:
After reading this, I think I’ll pass on Keefe
Glad you're not making the decision
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6 hours ago, pi2000 said:
JBOTs job is on the line. If he's smart he'll choose the most experienced guy willing to come here who has a history of quickly turning around bad teams. He doesn't have the luxury of giving a Sheldon Keefe a season or two to adjust to the NHL.
Tippett is the only choice that makes sense.
My sons former teammate and buddy plays for the Sharks. He lives in Denver now and spent Weds. evening hanging out at his apartment with this guy. My son played against Sheldon in Juniors and he asked him if he knew Sheldon Keefe. The sharks player responded, "oh yeah, everyone knows him, he's gonna be a superstar real soon!"
So you are correct, it is the only choice that makes sense for the Sabres. Hire the guy who's like a dozen other guys.sarcasm
What is it they say on 2BD Billsy?
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18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:
Which year/roster specifically are you looking at that you feel Tippett could have gotten more out of them?
I want Keefe as well ftr.
Okay. From memory, you can look it up but I'm fairly certain. He had some teams in Dallas about 2004-05-06 that won 50 games and had well over 100 pts. They lost in the first round three years in a row , including 4-1 to an aging Avs team( No Forsberg, No Roy) a couple times. As a matter of fact, Quenneville was the coach who beat him and I consider him a next level coach. Dallas was loaded with Modano, Morrow, Guerin, Lehtinen, Zubov etc.) and finished with about 20 more pts as a team. I need to get back to work. My point isn't that Tippett is a bad coach, playoff coach, I have no belief that down the road when the team is a contender (if it is) that he gets you through the playoffs. Nothing screams special to me. Good chatting and sharing.
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49 minutes ago, dudacek said:
But have you spoken to Tippett? Botterill? Do have a good insight into the Sabres locker room?
Joel Quenville looked a lot like Tippett before he hit Chicago. Dallas Eakins like Keefe before Edmonton swallowed him up.
I’d say the vast majority of NHL coaches are competent enough with the right cast to work with. Our team needs more than competent, and some coaches are better than others, but it is usually synergy that allows them to succeed.
(And this is coming from a guy who wants it to be Keefe)
I don't agree with this, there are plenty of coaches out there who could screw up a Stanley Cup Champ.
You point about competency is the one I've been making. Tippett is likely competent, may even get us to the playoffs next year. I don't know him personally. I think there are coaches who could have done better than he did with the talent he had just from looking at his record. I want better, and Keefe would be better IMO. That's the way I see it.
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1 hour ago, klos1963 said:
Just because you don't want to hear the teams had no talent, doesn't mean it wasn't a valid reason for not making the playoffs. It's actually an incredibly valid reason. One of the best reasons.
In the modern NHL almost nobody completely lacks talent. Granted you need some level to compete, but it is generic like championship talent, playoff talent, or likely not playoff talent.
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13 minutes ago, dudacek said:
We judge coaches almost solely on perception: Do I like how he looks behind the bench? Do I like the way he interacts with the media? Do I think his teams met my expectations? What are people saying about him?
What matters are his philosophies about general strategy, in-game tactics, player development and managing people, and how those match with philosophies of the organization and the type of players they have and intend to acquire. And we don't see that stuff.
We have no idea if Tippett (Bylsma, Richards...) is a mediocre coach who failed to maximize the talent handed him, or a great coach who made the most out of a bad situation. We have no idea if Gronberg (Housley, Keefe...) is the next big thing, or a guy who won't be able to make the jump.
It's fun to talk about, but we really don't have a clue.
Actually, I've seen and spoken to Sheldon...so I do have an good idea of his philosophy, tactics and strategy. The notion some people have on here is that someone like Tippett might get them to the playoffs may well be true. All I'm saying is that there are certain guys who win and are special at it. They are above the guys like Tippett. The talent on a team is not just on the GM either. The utilization and assessment of the players is on the coach. And, that is an underrated aspect of a hockey coach. Guys confidence and development is strongly tied to this. I see Keefe as a guy who fits this model of a modern hockey coach.
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4 hours ago, slugspirit said:
Quenneville, Trotz, Julien, Sutter, Babcock. All "retreads" who have won the cup in the last 10 years. There is no exact science to this process. We just have to trust JBott will find what he's looking for and make the right decision.
No one is saying it is an exact science. Don't forget context when stating examples. All the guys above went into situations with teams ready to win and needed to get over the hump. The current Sabres situation in no way resembles that.
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So you're all excited to bring in a solid, retread. Let's be ahead of the curve for once. Keefe has won at every level he's been given a chance at. Make no mistake about it the NHL will come calling soon. And, he will win just like at every other level.
How can you be impressed by a record (Tippett) of 14 yrs as a coach and missed playoffs half the time (including last 5 years in a row)? And, only advanced past first round a couple times, and just once to the third round. I don't want to hear he had no talent either. The great coaches don't have records like this. Solid maybe, but not good enough. I want someone with the potential to win it all.
Raise your standards people and shoot for something bigger.
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No Thanks on Tippett. Just checked his record as an NHL coach and I'm not impressed. Give me Sheldon Keefe and we're all set for a decade.
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Just now, Radar said:
I hope you're not implying fans should hire a coach. Have you suffered through an hour of sports show call in.
Maybe it's a lack of understanding by the fanbase. I mean they have to know more than the guys in charge.
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1 hour ago, Hoss said:
if i’m the one hiring based on the incredibly limited info i have my top five (also considering what’s “available”):
1. sheldon keefe
2. luke richardson
3. scott gordon
4. rikard grönborg
5. dj smith
The next great NHL coach! We are stupid if we aren't doing everything we can to obtain hi services.
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8 minutes ago, WildCard said:
It's a shame we went with Housley first as our risky move instead of a Keef or the Crunch guy. Everything now indicates Botteril wants an experienced NHL head coach, not a 'risky' AHL hire
Yes and if the plan is to recycle a veteran coach, I hope it is someone who has actually had real success in this type of situation.
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If Sheldon Keefe is available I recommend we go get him ASAP. If he can't win here then it will almost certainly be because management failed him. If given the right tools and listened too he will deliver the goods. Dude has won everywhere. I watched him coach up close in Junior hockey and his team won league title 5 times in a row. Then he moved to the OHL and won. Then to the AHL and won.
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If Keefe is available I recommend we go get him ASAP. If he can't win here then it will almost certainly be because management failed him. If given the right tools and listened too he will deliver the goods. Dude has won everywhere. I watched him coach up close in Junior hockey and his team won league title 5 times in a row. Then he moved to the OHL and won. Then to the AHL and won.
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Where's Coopers and Lybrand? Daley just bringing the cards out......did he shuffle em?
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NHL is happy he's going to NY Metro or Chicago! Ummmmm
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38 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:
1st bold: But the thing is, eyes don't capture everything either. How often do you lay this exact critique on the eye test? Most people apply this particular critique asymmetrically.
2nd bold: I'm not sure what you mean here. Care to elaborate?
3rd bold: Of course. But at the same time, nobody is saying to base decisions solely on small samples.
4th bold: Naturally it's the coaches prerogative. However, if the coach always just happens to find the data lacking when it disagrees with his judgment, then that's a problem. There's not a problem with sometimes rejecting the data, but there is a big problem with always rejecting it.
1. Agreed, the best result is a combination of analysis and scouting.
2. Corsi is often quoted on here yet in this instance it is so obvious that other factors are missing. On an individual level, who you are on the ice with is not dealt with and has some of the same problems old fashioned +/- has.
3. There are folks on this forum who have said they have a problem with the eyeball test.
4. No, but he won't be coaching long if he doesn't use the tools at his disposal. If there is a real advantage and some other coach is getting it and you're not, you are hurting yourself.
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I've read and understand the analytics. I am what some people would probably call an analytics guy. Numbers play a role, but quite frankly aren't as enlightening as some of you believe in regards to certain things.They are being overrated by the numbers crowd pure and simple. Many times they just matchup with what you see. And, sometimes they are way off based on the fact the models used don't capture everything needed in a continous action game. Does anyone really believe these Corsis truly represent the Sabres 50.0 and Lightning 51.6? This is a stat I see frequently sited on here and I'm not trying to cherry pick as there are a ton of other examples. People complaining about this guy using his eyeballs are being naive. The infamous Tangotiger (analytics guru) once said "in small samples a good scout can be superior to the numbers". Now if you want to talk about the tactics of the game and something like PP goals often originating down low, well that is something a coach can use. There are tons of examples of this, and if a coach rejects using data that is helpful, he won't be coaching too much longer. If however he rejects data that he finds lacking, well that is his perogative. Personally, I'm just tired of someone saying this defenseman has a 54.0 Corsi and ignores the rest of his game (which is alot) that is as bad as the coach who refuses to use any analytics. JMO
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He had no chance of recovering and coaching this team again. The players obviously didn't have his back and it showed....unless you're going to bring in all new players it wouldn't work.?
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I would love Sheldon Keefe, but that is likely not possible. He is tough, flexible and a winner. Plus he's an experienced 38 year who and could be around and successful for years.
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4 hours ago, SDS said:
How do you know about his weight gain and the composition of that weight?
I've seen him before and after! Not nude
NEXT COACH should be? mega thread ...
in The Aud Club
Posted
Couldn't help but stick your nose into someone else's conversation and then insult me because I have a different opinion. Some of you guys are special!