msw2112
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Posts posted by msw2112
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Sadly, Lyon's performance in the Boston game last night was not a whole lot different from a typical UPL performance. He made some saves, he let in some goals that most goalies would let in. When push came to shove, he was not able to make the biggest saves when needed. He was not a difference maker in the game.
I fully agree that Lyon was a difference maker in some of the early games (including games they lost where he kept them in the game when the had no business being in it). That said, Lyon is an OK NHL goalie who had a hot run. I don't think he can be counted on to be the full-time starter for the rest of the season.
I suppose that you could argue that what Lyon gives is equivalent to what UPL gives, at a much cheaper salary, and use that to justify trying to move on from UPL.
Ellis is interesting, because he's only played 1 NHL game. Nobody really knows what he is or what he could become. He has proven talent at the AHL level and played well in his one NHL start.
In the end, I think we're stuck with the 3-headed monster for a while. And while I realize that these guys are largely hung out to dry in the 3 on 3 OTs, wouldn't it be something if a Sabres goalie, ANY Sabres goalie, made a key game-saving save in an OT period? Somehow the opponents are able to get those saves when the Sabres get the breakaway or 3 on 1 in OT, but the Sabres are not. Maybe the Sabres shooters are just not very good....
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5 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:
I think we all over-expected based on his college production, and his rookie year cup of coffee.
End of the day, his 39 NHL starts are 2nd in his draft class behind Nico Daws. Askarov was picked 11 overall and only has 22 starts, and is currently 1-4-1 with an .844 sv% and 4.69 GAA. It's certainly a position that requires a lot more patience than others.
At the time of trade though - Buffalo used these goalies: Anderson, Tokarski, Dell, UPL, Houser, and Subban. In the AHL, UPL started the majority of games but the rest of the depth was pretty much the same guys as above. There wasn't much of anything at the NHL level or AHL level from a goaltending perspective. UPL was fast tracked because he was the only one there, Portillo refused to sign, and Johansson was dumped because he was terrible.
That's not to say that any of these guys are the answer, just to say that at the time we fans probably set unrealistic expectations because of how bad the goalies had gotten after losing Ullmark.
They now have:
- Lyon, capable backup performing well in his chance to start. Kind of a late bloomer.
- UPL, probably a future backup elsewhere. Overpaid. But still the highest quality home grown goalie the team has produced recently.
- Ellis, probably a bit short on AHL/NHL starts to be relied upon - but is just 25 and under team control.
- Levi, Right around the sweet spot of 100 starts and doesn't have to clear waivers so unfortunately for him, that means he mans the AHL.
- 4 prospects in Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov.
As bad as the position has been, its about as good of a spot as they've been in a long time. I don't think they have their "guy" today, but there's a number of options as well as future pieces to try and get this position right.
Interesting take. I wonder if one or more of Ellis, Levi, Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov will develop into a quality NHL starting goalie. Ellis and Levi are much further along, so we'll probably have answers on them sooner. If given a shot, Ellis could do so this season. Lyon looks good right now, but is likely to regress to his average, and UPL, people forget, is still only 26 himself, has flashed in spots, and many goalies bloom in their late 20s/early 30s, so he might still have a future. The problem the Sabres have is that they need to get to the playoffs now, or risk their stars wanting to be traded and starting a rebuild all over AGAIN, as has happened with the last couple rounds of stars they've had. They may not have time to wait and see what UPL might develop into, which means that if Lyon doesn't continue his stellar play and/or Ellis doesn't emerge, it could spell trouble.
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28 minutes ago, JohnC said:
I agree with you on the issue of having lower expectations compared to many other fans. Willing to accept this lower standard is a requirement in order to stay engaged with this franchise. That in itself is a sad commentary about where we are and what we can realistically hope for. Another way of saying it is dumbing down the standard because of the belief that a higher standard is unattainable. In most sports, especially in a sport with a cap system, there is usually an up and down cycle. We should be able to reach the middle cycle but considering the caliber of staff running the operation, the upper cycle is not likely attainable unless there is a dramatic change within. I'm not trying to be a downer but am simply acknowledging where we are at and how far we can go.
Agreed. Back to more cliches, you have to learn to walk before you learn to run. Given all the missteps of the recent past, the Sabres have to learn how to walk before they learn to run. Being competitive and consistent, and getting into the playoffs (even as an 8 seed and losing in the 1st round), is to me, learning to walk, and the step this team needs to take. If the younger players develop and/or are flipped for quality veterans, maybe then the team can rise to the next level of being a serious contender down the road. THIS current roster, THIS season, is not going to rise to that level. Sure, there are rare teams that make a huge leap in one season and make a magical run to the finals, but that's an unrealistic expectation for this team.
The issue that I have, and I think a lot of fans have, is that with the year under Granato when they finished 1 point out of a playoff spot (which I think was the season ending in April 2023), they looked like they had learned to walk, and taken that step, and were ready to advance to the next steps. Rather than capitalizing on the moment, management sat on its hands and did very little to improve the team to keep the momentum going, instead doing nothing and regressing the next 2 seasons. So now we're trying to work forward, starting from the point they have regressed to, rather from where they were in April of 2023.
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14 hours ago, pi2000 said:
I'm enjoying the fact that they're competitive.
They've been in every game.
They've had better starts at home, and their home record is much better since Jan 1st.
PK is 1st in the league and the PP doesn't stink.
Lyon is playing well in goal.
Taking steps in the right direction, the points will come if they continue to focus on the details.
I wouldn't say "they're for real" yet, but I'm encouraged.
Agree. There are several encouraging signs, but they are not "there" yet. In a way, it's a positive that they're getting a couple of "loser" points that they didn't get last season, but they are called "loser" points for a reason, as in the end, they're losing the 2nd point by losing the game in OT or shootout (in both of this year's games so far, OT). In my opinion, they need to win at least half of the OT/shootout games to get over the hump. If they continue to play pretty well, but fail to win some of these types of games, they will fall short of the playoffs again.
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34 minutes ago, JohnC said:
The players that departed (Eichel, ROR and Reinhart) have their names on The Cup. And those deals have been made more than a few years ago. The Sabres have not been in the playoffs in a generation. I don't care how you calculate the individual deals. Those deals became major subtractions while our so called additions still have not fully materialized yet. Just ask yourself: if we still had Eichel, ROR and Reinhart would the Sabres be a better team than they are now. You can make your own calculation but mine is that we would definitely better without the deals. My attention is on the present and not a couple of more years down the road. Who knows, by then Tage and Dahlin might be demanding to be traded because they are so frustrated about the present.
I don't disagree with you, but we can't reverse the trades. They've happened. So the best we can hope for is some kind of positive outcome down the road.
There's no question that a roster with all those top players (and a good coach) would be much better than what's on the ice today, but again, the horse is out of the barn. The ship has sailed. Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart are not going to come walking through that door. (I'm out of cliches...) All we can do is hope that things are better for the current team than they've been in the recent past and that the younger players acquired in past deals will ultimately develop and help the team, or be flipped for assets that can help the current team. A six or seven game stretch is not enough of a sample size to give a definitive answer, but if the team plays the way they have the last 2 weeks for the remainder of the season, they have a good chance of making the playoffs as one of the lower seeds. They're not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, but can be competitive. It's not necessarily better than what could have been, but it may be a step in the right direction given what we've seen in the last few years. And they still have the 2nd youngest roster in the league, so there's a lot of growth opportunities with the guys they currently have (or, with assets acquired by flipping them for more experienced players).
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3 hours ago, JohnC said:
He likely believes that he will have a better chance to do so somewhere else. As you are well aware, there is nothing unusual about Sabre players desiring to be liberated from this middling organization.
Just think, Levi was the centerpiece return on the Reinhart deal. KA is masterful at out -hustling himself. His managing motto is: one step forward then two steps back.
I agree with most of this post, but I don't think that Levi was the centerpiece on the Reinhart deal. The centerpiece return was a 1st round draft pick, which has turned into Kulich. Levi was a piece of the deal, but more of a throw in because Florida had a glut of goalies, with Bob, Spencer Knight, and I think even Lyon at that point (not sure about the timing on Lyon). They may have had even another young goalie in the system at the time. I'm sure that Levi was important to the Sabres at the time, but I don't think he was the centerpiece.
Right now, with Reinhart's success, this looks like a bad deal for the Sabres, but maybe in a few years if Kulich develops into a top flight forward and Levi into a starting goaltender, and Reinhart slows down due to age, it will look better for the Sabres, similar to the O'Reilly trade. In the early years of that trade, O'Reilly was leading the Blues to the Stanley Cup, while Thompson was struggling to establish himself as an NHL player. The other guys the Sabres got from St. Louis were beyond busts. Now, with Thompson being one of the top goal scorers in the league, the trade had aged much better for Buffalo, as O'Reilly is an older player on the downside of his career. It will be a couple or more years before we'll know.
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I agree with comments above: if, in fact, he's going to play, and he's going to be in one of the top 3 pairings (there are only 3 that play in the game, which we all know), shouldn't he be practicing with the top 3 pairings, and more specifically, with his defense partner for the upcoming game? Same would apply to any player who is returning from injury and set to appear in a game - practice on your pair/line with your partner/linemates.
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In hindsight, most here agree that the Sabres overreacted to UPL's great half-season in 2024 when they gave him the big contract and made him the unquestioned starter. Would it also be an overreaction to dump UPL after Lyon has played well for 3 weeks? And Ellis played well in ONE start? UPL was bad last year, and I just had a feeling that he would not be able to step up and hold the lead in the last Toronto game. Sadly, he proved me right. The Toronto tying goal could have/should have been stopped and, while it's true that stopping a Hall of Fame forward on a breakaway in OT is a lot to ask, sometimes your goalie has to make a big play for the team to win the game, and UPL did not have it in him.
So what I'm saying is that I'm not super high on UPL right now, but getting rid of him at this point because Lyon has played well for 3 weeks and Ellis for 1 game would be an overreaction. They need to roll with 3, as bad as that might be, and see how things shake out. UPL is STILL only 25, and many goalies don't hit their prime until closer to 30 (and some after 30).
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I think he's going to be a good one and it's a positive that they are giving him the proper time to develop. It's been so rare in recent years to see this organization make a good decision that it's almost odd to recognize it when they do.
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24 minutes ago, msw2112 said:
If UPL regains his 2024 form, it's a good problem to have. Lyon has been great so far and Ellis looked very good in his single appearance. While managing 3 is not great, I'd rather the team be managing 3 good players than having to debate the likes of Carter Hutton, Houser, etc. (no disrespect to Houser intended, who was a good story). Not sure if I want to throw Comrie onto that list, as he's a good fit for Winnipeg as a backup, but he was pretty bad in Buffalo.
And if UPL does NOT regain his 2024 form, the team appears to have solid alternatives (although it's too soon to know much about Ellis and even Lyon's sample size is small).
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If UPL regains his 2024 form, it's a good problem to have. Lyon has been great so far and Ellis looked very good in his single appearance. While managing 3 is not great, I'd rather the team be managing 3 good players than having to debate the likes of Carter Hutton, Houser, etc. (no disrespect to Houser intended, who was a good story). Not sure if I want to throw Comrie onto that list, as he's a good fit for Winnipeg as a backup, but he was pretty bad in Buffalo.
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On 10/22/2025 at 12:56 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:
This thread is very funny. Talk about a little premature
JJP, age 23, 245 gp 69g, 85a, 145 pts
Doan, age 23, 68gp, 14g, 19a, 33 pts.
The thread is not premature. I wrote it. I used words like "so far," "small sample size," "if...turns out to be," "don't want to be unrealistic," etc. The idea was to take the temperature of the board on the comparison as it sits right now. As a fan that's watched a few games so far, the thought has crossed my mind how Doan's impact & value compares to Peterka's, and based on the responses, it appears to have crossed others' minds too.
While Doan is more than a "throw in," it's not really debatable that Kesselring was the main piece coming back to the Sabres in the trade. If Doan brings more to the team than Peterka brought, exclusive of what Kesselring eventually brings (or doesn't bring, as may be the case), it would be pretty remarkable. And, based on what we've seen SO FAR, it's entirely possible.
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7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:
You know one of the 1st things I look for in a scouting report? Motor. If it's not mentioned, fine. If it's mentioned negatively, bad bad. Positively, tell me more. Motor sometimes comes across as "relentless" or "high work rate" but Buffalo needs more.
Also Nikita Klepov. We need to draft him.
When the Athletic rates prospects, one of the factors they name and consider is "Compete" which I would equate to "Motor." Doan has it in spades and the Sabres have lacked players with it for years. Benson has it too. While talent cannot be overlooked, the Sabres have had plenty of talent over the years, but severely lacked in compete. The best players in the NHL are those that have both. Guys like McKinnon, the Tkachuk brothers, etc. I hate Marchand, but he has both too. McDavid is top of the talent scale and seems to have the "Motor"/"Compete" as well.
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5 hours ago, JohnC said:
Is Norris expected to come back this season? I'm aware that he has been injured prone but that was a big loss, especially for Tage. It seemed that last night Tage was playing a lot of solo hockey untethered to the line he was on.
From what I've seen/read, he's expected back sometime in November, probably later in the month. I can't say how accurate that is, but that's what I've seen out there.
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Kesserling was the main piece coming back to the Sabres in the Peterka trade, but Doan is definitely more than just a throw in. For the season so far, Kesserling has not played due to injury, but Doan has been off to a good start. I was curious to see how his stats so far compare to Peterka's:
Doan: 6 GP, 2 G, 3 A, 5 points, +1
Peterka: 7 GB, 2 G, 2 A, 4 points, +3
I'm not sure what's more surprising, that Doan has more points so far, in fewer games, or that Peterka has a positive plus/minus!
While I have not seen Peterka play for Utah, I can say that he brought less physical play, positive attitude, tenacity, aggressiveness, defensive play, and leadership to the Sabres than Doan now does.
Wouldn't it be something, if 1 for 1, Doan turns out to be a better player than Peterka, regardless of what Kesserling does? So far, I'd say that's the case. It's a long season and this is a small sample size, so I don't want to be unrealistic, but I'm interested to hear what others think. I'd also add that even if Peterka's offensive stats turn out to be better, if you take Doan's offensive stats PLUS all of the intangibles he brings to the team, could he be deemed the overall better player anyway? And then add in whatever Kesserling brings to the table, which might be quite a bit. The Sabres could end up winning this trade in a big way. Time will tell. I'm not a huge fan of Adams, but it would be a feather in his cap the Sabres win this trade.
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I'm interested to see how Metsa does. He's undersized, but seems to have the makeup of a very good hockey player. He lead his college team to a National Championship, and I believe he was the captain of that team. I have not seen him play as an Amerk, but would like to hear what people who have seen him play there think.
I fully agree that I'd rather have Johnson on the team than Bryson and I highly doubt Bryson would have been claimed on waivers, and I wouldn't be that upset if another team did claim him.
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1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:
I saw Lyon make several unbelievable saves, including one against Boston.
I did not see the Boston game, but I don't doubt what you are saying. I thought he played very well last night and was always in the right position and stopped a lot of shots through traffic, which was impressive. I didn't see any saves that were going to make the highlight reel, but I suppose that by being in the right position, he didn't have to. My main point was that while nobody would be unhappy with "spectacular" goaltending, the Sabres can get by with "solid" goaltending if their offense performs to its capability. Prior to last night, the offense hadn't. But if you took last season's offense and added the kind of goaltending provided by Lyon the last few games, they would have made the playoffs.
I like UPL and always want to see guys the Sabres have drafted and developed (and paid) succeed, but UPL was really bad for most of last season. If UPL plays like he did from January - April 2024, the team would be in great shape. In my opinion, UPL's play during that stretch was even better than what Lyon had done so far this season. Everyone thought that UPL had arrived, and the team paid him accordingly, only to see him stumble last season and now start this season on the injured list. Let's hope he returns to that form, and Lyon continues his strong play, in which case the Sabres will have a great goalie tandem.
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1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:
Is that the bar?
What could you get for him right now?
Yes, the bar is "solid but unspectacular." With the Sabres' goal scoring last season, solid but unspectacular goaltending all season long would have resulted in a playoff berth. Terrible goaltending doomed the season. For the stretch near the end when Reimer played reasonably well, the team won a lot of games.
A young Dominick Hasek or Ryan Miller are not walking through that door. There were not any great goalies on the free agent market this summer and teams are not looking to deal top-flight goalies. Plus, with free agent choices and no-trade clauses, it's highly unlikely a top-flight veteran goalie is going to sign with the Sabres. As such, they have to rely on "solid" veteran goalies while drafting and developing younger ones, hoping to eventually groom one into a star. UPL was looking like that guy a couple of seasons ago, and was paid accordingly, but fell off a cliff last season. Can Levi be that guy? The jury is still out. They've drafted 5 others (Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, Meloche, Prokhorov) (yes, Google is my friend) and brought in Ellis, in hopes of one or more of them becoming that guy.
Lyon has played well. He has not "stood on his head" or made highlight-reel saves, but he's in the right place at the right time to make the necessary saves, and from what I've seen, he has not given up any soft goals that cost the team a game. Although he gave up 4 goals last night, the defensive play was horrific, and, fortunately, there was enough offense to overcome the 4 goals. I watched the TSN broadcast (nice relief and diversion from Dunleavy and Ray) and they commented several times on how Lyon's play kept the team in the game until they figured out they needed to put forth some effort (which they did).
I know very little about Ellis, except that he was very good in the AHL last season, but I'd like to see, at some point, what he can do. I assume he'll get a start the next time they play a lower-tier team. Last night would have been such an opportunity, but given the 0-3 start, they HAD TO go with Lyon, who has been playing well. To risk a loss on an unproven rookie and falling to 0-4 would not have been a wise decision.
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I'm hoping for a win tonight. They're only 6 points out of a playoff spot! (or something like that)
I'm not optimistic and the season could not have started any worse than it has, but there's still plenty of time to turn things around. While I don't think it will happen, why not start with a good effort and win tonight, then focus on the next game?
Injuries are not an excuse for uninspired play, but I know the team has a lot of injuries to key players and it looks like some are coming back soon. I have not seen much of the first 3 games, so I'm not in a great position to assess how good or bad the effort has been, although, from what I've read, they've played 2 solid periods of out 9 so far.
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9 minutes ago, eman said:
I'd easily take DeBoer or Gallant.
I was advocating for Leone as an in-house candidate (which means it won't cost much) and a new face who I believe is on the rise, but I agree that DeBoer or Gallant are experienced coaches who have had fairly recent success in the league. Of course, Ruff had a good season in NJ a couple of years before the Sabres hired him....
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14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:
I don't see the point. Just fire Ruff again. Fire Adams. Promote Jarmo and either Appert or Leone. Name Prospal HC in Rochester. They have to do something soon.
I've been a Lindy Ruff fan since he played for the team. Loved him in his first coaching go-round. That said, it's time. I'd be in favor of Leone as HC and Jarmo as GM to see what they can do with the rest of the season and go from there. While Appert had some success in Rochester and has nice hair, his college coaching record is bad. He's been terrible as an assistant coach/power play coach. Leone just seems to be a guy on the rise and he's in the organization already. I don't even know what he (or his hair) looks like, but I don't care. Give him a shot. It can't be any worse than what's going on now and sometimes in-season coaching changes work. Berube did extremely well in St. Louis and Kris Knoblauch did the same in Edmonton, as in-season hires. I realize that Connor McDavid is not going to come walking through that door, but the team was on a major skid and Knoblauch came in and turned it around quickly. Some guys just have good systems and/or relate well to players and I think Leone may be that kind of guy.
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On 10/11/2025 at 2:51 PM, Pimlach said:
Sabres Power Play word association:
Static
Perimeter
Wide
Screenless
Drop-pass
None
Ass
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It's a tough call. I don't like when players are rushed back too soon from injury and it lingers, and maybe never fully heals during the season. On the other hand, this Sabres team will struggle to succeed without their supposed #1 goalie and 3 or 4 of their top 6 defensemen and this team absolutely cannot afford a poor start to the season. They're just not good enough to dig themselves out of a hole.
It's too early to judge whether all of these injuries are a) freak, largely unpreventable occurrences that have all, by chance, happened around the same time; b) the team being extra-cautious and not rushing guys back that are dinged up but able to play; or c) a failure of the new strength and conditioning program. Let's hope it's a) or b) and not c).
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6 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:
You've never butchered someones name before and just laughed about it?
This seems more like the torch and pitchfork people who don't like Paul Hamilton.
I'm only going on what's been said on this board - I don't listen to Hamilton and as such, I don't really have an opinion on him one way or another and I have not personally heard him mispronounce the player's name. My take is that if he mispronounced the name once or twice, that's fine, but he apparently does it repeatedly, which is very poor form for a member of the media. It irritates me when media members don't do their homework and mispronounce names and/or overlook or misstate important facts. Most of us have to be prepared to succeed at our jobs and we would like to see our media members prepare for theirs. Having a good handle on the people or events that they cover is part of a media person's job.
But enough lecturing on a media member I don't follow. I'm much more concerned about the Sabres' defense and goaltending injuries....
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Sabres place Zach Benson on IR, recall Isak Rosen
in The Aud Club
Posted
Östlund was sent down (or "loaned" to Rochester, if there's a difference).
I've been unimpressed with what I have seen from Rosen to date. When he's been in Buffalo, he's been fairly invisible on the ice. He doesn't generate offense, he doesn't appear to do anything defensively, he's not hitting people, he's not driving play.
Hopefully, he's improved and will add more value on this callup than in previous ones. Typically, I think that patience is required with the development of many young players, but usually they show SOMETHING when they get called up. Guys might not score a lot, but are hitting people, or are making plays, pressuring the other team with their speed, etc. Guys like Thompson and Mittlestadt were not good in their early games with the Sabres, but at least demonstrated something. Thompson has unteachable size and his puck dangling, Mittlestadt showed good hands. Devon Levi has had some sharp games. Ryan Johnson has shown some ability to skate well and to get the puck up ice. Not consistently, but flashes of what might happen in the future when they're more mature and stronger. I have seen no such flash from Rosen.