Darryl Shannon's +/-
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Posts posted by Darryl Shannon's +/-
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I never thought the Sabres lost in 2007 because of lack of toughness. They were not beat up in that series with Ottawa - the one they lost. They outhit Ottawa....they just got outplayed. I don't think they would have beat Anaheim. But Ottawa won that series at center ice. Not in the corners. Buffalo lost that series on the PP. 2 for 30 in the series. 10%
2 for 30 on the PP. Toughness don't mean dick if you are 2 for 30 on the PP.
But repeat it long enough and it becomes something else. 12 Mike Griers wouldn't have helped.
2007 - Center Ice....and the PP. I'm sticking with it.
2 for 30 on the PP.
Word.
(obviously my, ahem....math doesn't help my point. I meant 6.67 % on the PP. Toughness can still mean dick at 10% PP. But it definitively don't mean dick at 6.67%)
Agree here....the loss of Grier was not why we lost that series. I had an issue trying to equate Grier's contributions to a team with Kassian's. Apples and oranges, Kassian is not and will never be a Mike Grier type of player.
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I don't think bringing Grier in is a fair comparison to Kassian. Grier was a smart, physical player who was a fixture on the penalty kill. I don't know if Kassian ever projects as a PK guy even if he realizes his potential. To date he doesn't show 10% of the hockey sense or leadership that Grier brought to the table.
Fighting, especially of the staged variety is stupid. But saying that Kassian is a great fighter is the part I take the most offense to. He really seems to be a middle of the road type that is willing but just not that dangerous. And if he really is as productive as some believe he is/can be, he should only drop the gloves 2-3 times a year, tops.
As for the 20 goals, if he keeps up this great shot % as referenced above, he's on pace for 17.
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I really don't see them moving Toffoli either. But if a deal with them really is going down this early then he COULD be involved. Only way you make a deal this early is if you get blown away (from a sellers standpoint).
Another thing to consider is that moving one of our only viable goal scorers early is a way to make sure we draft in the top 3.
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A Miller trade is possible at any moment in my mind just because you never know how the goalie market will act. If you get a very good offer then you have to act swiftly and get the deal done as a bidding war of many very good offers is unlikely.
A Moulson trade might be more likely later, but if a team comes to you and says "we'll give you (awesome offer), but we need to know by the weekend because we've got another deal we'd like to do instead" then you might want to take that offer now instead of taking a chance on what happens later.
Agree that Moulson should be saved for last.....a proven 30 goal scorer at the deadline should be used as bait for a feeding frenzy. Miller/Ott require more finesse....
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No not that. I mean instead of say, Miller for a number one in 2014, say Miller for a 1st rnd in 2015.
I'm not sure if NFL logic translates to the NHL, but a one year deferral usually means you lose a round's worth of value. So a 2014 2nd = 2015 1st. I like the idea, but given the way Murray has been talking I don't think that will be the way he operates. If McDavid really is a generational talent, I'd like all the ping pong balls we can get to have a shot at him.
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An unrestricted free agent is an unrestricted free agent, free to sign wherever he wants.
Any team acquiring one knows they are taking that risk.
If there was a binding agreement in place before the trade, sure that should cause problems.
So therefore, there wouldn't be a binding agreement. Either Miller, or the Sabres could go in another direction come July 1.
It's happened before and It's not that complicated.
A binding agreement if you trade someone at the deadline makes no sense for both sides. A player could outperform and make themselves more marketable, or they could get hurt or perform horribly. There is risk on both sides.
I don't know if informal discussions about the possibility of returning after being traded to a team of their choosing is technically wrong?
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Never was a big DB fan but if he wants to come here score a few goals and feel some love in a swan song, I wouldn't hate it.
I was (and still am) a Briere fan. It's a shame his swan song in all likelihood won't happen on the team he grew up rooting for.
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Trading for Briere doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless we are either emptying the cupboards of veteran leadership and want him to be that guy, or if we are giving Montreal salary relief and making them pay us with draft picks?
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I might agree with you on Dion, but at $6.6 mil / 8 years for a 26 year-old who has hit the 30-goal plateau 4 times, and likely to do so again this year, they got him for exactly the right price. He's a top-ten forward in the league, and he's easily their best
Provided they can continue to put a competent center with him of course. Imagine if they put him with someone like Kessler? Man, I can't wait for the Olympics to start :beer:
It's difficult to draw the line, but if a player doesn't bring anything but goal scoring, the ages of 30+ are difficult to justify that type of cap hit. I'm betting that he will be a buyout candidate before that deal has run its course, sort of like Briere.
And this isn't easy....the way deals and UFA are structured kind of make this a necessity. Toronto fans would be furious if Phil walked for no compensation and put up video game numbers for 3-5 years. So they tack on an additional 2-3 years to get him to sign on the dotted line.
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About to be one rich princess:
"@DarrenDreger: Aside from couple of details, Phaneuf and TOR close on 7 x $7 mil extension."No Move/No Trade language still being worked on
Being in our division, it's nice that Toronto is spending really, really big money on guys who are not elite. They are borderline, but borderline isn't good enough to tie up your cap room to Dion or Kessel.
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I understand the perception here but at the same time as the Sabres signed Scott the league also has changed quite a bit as well. I just don't think it's as great as we want it to be. Is it there at some level? It's really hard to say.
Again, as for the instigator, it's irrelevant. Scott can instigate all day long. If Lucic turtles then Scott is left to decide whether or not he should throw a punch at a guy who is not responding. There's no way he's going to do it. He gets penalties for guys skating into him. I can only imagine what he ends up with for destroying a guy who isn't defending himself.
Agree on most of this....though if you get a player to turtle in my mind you've already won. Not many players are okay with doing that (especially Lucic I think), as the firestorm in the media would be hilarious. Let's pretend that player X on an opposing team runs Miller again. If he gets 2 or 5, the next shift Scott is challenging. If that player turtles can you imagine the outrage from the dinosaurs who preach "the code"? And I don't agree with this....but the next page in the goon handbook would be that if said player isn't willing to fight, smaller skilled players are fair game, or a surprise attack is. If it goes that far, we have the biggest, baddest weapon on our side. Sad thing is that thinking like this has also resulted in a lot of the really ugly plays in hockey in the past 10 years or so.
And I don't believe that the relations between the two teams are great, I just think that Scott gives us room that Shanahan and company have been unable to legislate.
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I struggle to see how John Scott prevents anything. No one has to fight him, at all, ever. He can choose to take a run at someone as retribution but he'll pay the price through ejection and suspension. I understand the perception that he prevents certain things from happening, but I don't see it.
Lucic could have given Weber a solid thumping the other night but it was not in his best interests to do it. Lucic is not going to fight John Scott, ever. That was discussed ad nauseum when the Sabres first acquired Scott. I'll be surprised if anyone other than an identified fighter goes up against John Scott ever again.
If Lucic were to step out of line as badly as he has in the past (the attempted fight with Lydman or running Miller), he certainly would have to answer to 32. The only thing stopping it is an instigator, which I think the Sabres would be more than happy to take to send a message if it needed to be sent.
I don't believe it's a coincidence that he's toned down his act against us since 32 signed with us.
Don't take this as a "We need John Scott" post. The league and the team will be better without people like him around. But to say that he has zero impact on the relations between these two teams isn't fair either. It's definitely more tame, but to achieve that we need to dress a guy who drags down our overall skill level.
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What's embarrassing is your creation of a mythical "double standard." It's just another step in your continued attempt to justify Scott place on the roster. Wilson's play was nowhere near what Scott has done and certainly doesn't even belong in the same conversation.
If you want to counter Lucic than you need to have a top six forward that can counter Lucic's effect on a game. A 4 minute a game goon is an embarrassing attempt. You want to counter Lucic, you need to look to Foligno, Ott and to a lessor extent McCormick. In the future you counter with Girgensson, Zadorov and Ristolainen.
Lucic didn't run Miller because they didn't have a John Scott. He ran Miller because he knew that the 20 guys dressed wouldn't even consider doing something about it.
I think that's where the disconnect is. As long as Scott is on the team and/or dressed, Lucic and others of his ilk would not consider doing something that stupid or reckless. Lucic would not have run Miller as he would have known that a sound beating was coming his way.
And the contention that a top 6 forward needs to take on Lucic is not practical. There may be 3-4 top 6 types in the league who could take him on. But history has shown that he shrinks from the true heavyweight division.
To further this though....if Shanahan would have dealt with the situation properly, there would be no need to load up on muscle to counter stupidity. A great game is being bogged down by the idiots in charge.
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Scott does nothing to change that.
It's a small sample size, but ever since Scott has been wearing the blue and gold Lucic seems to be on better behavior. No more (bravely) trying to fight the Toni Lydman's of the world. And the end of game nonsense seems to have lessened as well.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that Scott doesn't belong in the NHL. My gripe is that as long as the league doesn't protect the safety of others from loose cannons like Lucic, there will be a need for the John Scott's of the world.
Take a look at Lucic going after Landeskog. That isn't hockey, that isn't tough play. And it's not anything I want to see. John Scott keeps things like that from happening to our players. And we need that as long as Shanny isn't willing to drop the hammer on certain players and/or teams.
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If Scott were on the ice in the same position Wilson was, Schenn would have had the puck down into the offensive zone before Scott could lumber his double blades to the face-off dot.
You do bring up an interesting point. I really feel it is the desperation of some to exonerate Scott from his attacks on skilled players by associating it with others plays, clean or not. The point I have made previously still stands, if Wilson would have hit Schenn with an ax, it doesn't make what Scott did twice less dirty and less embarrassing for the franchise and it's fans.
I think this is oversimplifying the issue....I think people bring up names like Kaleta and Scott to challenge the sham that is the office run by Shanahan. Using other lightning rods (who can actually play the game), do you think Cooke or Torres would have received nothing for the same exact play?
I'm not embarrassed for Scott or any of his actions, I'm embarrassed that the league makes it necessary to even contemplate having players like him around anymore. In 05/06, we were so, so close to eradicating this type from the league, yet clutching, grabbing and physical play have been allowed to take over again, reducing scoring. Remember right after the lockout when crosschecking in front of the net was an automatic whistle, resulting in dmen fronting forwards? That's ancient history.
Remember every time Scott is mocked as a joke that Lucic was laughing in his post game presser after running Miller.
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Only gripes I've got:
00: Marty Biron
4: Boughner
15: Dixon Ward
16: Chris Taylor, obviously
22: Mair
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A 6th round pick is almost valueless these days. Why not take a look at Linus? My only wish is that he was a RW where we're relatively weak instead of a LW. But, give him a look.
Agreed.....the bulk of our bottom 6 are AHL types. Why not plug in the leading AHL scorer to see if he gives you more. My expectations are low, but entertainment level may go up for us as his hands are elite.
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Goose averaged more ice time than Vanek. He wasn't a good offensive player but he plays a much larger role than any 4th liner.
Just look at Gaustad's stats, and it's impressive that he's eeked out a 10 year NHL career with his skillset. I've never understood his value to the game though, especially with the talk that faceoff wins really don't matter.
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I wanted to pull for Kassian but I can't do it. Big time scumbag. With that said, I'm sure players mock injuries all the time.
I'm sure people talk about those things all the time, this seemed worse if only for the reason that he decided to do it while the ref was pushing him away from the scrum. So not only classless and stupid, but also gutless.
Unless Kassian wakes up in the very near future, the 3 year expiration date can be a very real possibility. Not many guys wake up at 25 or 26 and all of the sudden become great players. LeClair was one....but I'm racking my brain trying to think of others. And his was due to the change in scenery, lax enforcement of the rules and playing with Lindros. Looking at his numbers so far, he's reminding me of a Brad May type of offensive presence who can't fight half as well.
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Shades of Andrew Peters swinging the golf club at the Leafs. Kassian just seems like a tweener who will never make it.....not enough offensive skill to be a true power forward, and a glorified middleweight in the fight game.
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nowhere have i suggested that thornton had "no intent" (although that's not the phrase i would use). i said he was grossly reckless. do you know what that means? i'm sensing that maybe you don't.
what we're talking about is a continuum of culpability. on the one side of the continuum is the entirely faultless accident (like a driver with hands at 10 and 2, doing the speed limit, paying attention, and then hits a pedestrian who darted out into traffic). on the other side of the continuum is the intentional act, with malice aforethought, and such (where the perpetrator carefully plans to run over the victim when he crosses the street at 5:45 p.m. as he customarily does, and then carries out the attack successfully, in cold blood).
i'm saying thornton's culpability is closer to the carefully planned attack than the faultless accident. you dig?
To pile on to this....let's pretend Orpik is hurt really, really badly. As this happened well after the whistle, I'm curious if this would be considered assault as it didn't happen during play.
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The difference between Scott's hit and what Thornton did last night aren't even comparable. It's a combination of the whole thing that is disgusting, the grab from behind, slewfoot, then punching his head into the ice. I don't think he will, but he should miss half the season for that.
Nothing I have ever seen from John Scott tells me that he would ever do something like that.
Until last night, I would have said the same thing about Thornton. There are classless idiots wearing the spoked B. Past actions showed he wasn't one of them.
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Having seen the knee to Marchand, I feel badly about what I said up thread - it was not part of a hockey play as I assumed it was, it was an unnecessary and cheap play by Neil and I don't think anybody, even a ###### gobbler like Marchand, should have to deal with that crap.
This video of the Erikcson hit is pretty interesting. Orpick blew him up and it didn't look to me like he had the puck, and then note Charra going head hunting at 18 seconds, leaving his feet and elbow out - but of course it was Charra so there will be no call from the league.
http://ndgoon.blogsp...-after-hit.html
The NHL, and the players themselves, need to reign this crap in before somebody gets killed. I love the physical nature of hockey, but this stuff is getting out of hand.
I missed the Chara attempt the first time around. The league allowing him to be suspension free (I think), and thus able to call him a clean player with no priors is an absolute joke.
Very interested to see how Shanahan deals with Thornton though. Yes, he's more talented than John Scott. That said, he's still a plug who wouldn't have a roster spot if fighting was eradicated from the game. He's easy prey to make a statement that the NHL is serious about cleaning things up.
In reality, I see a comical 5-10 game suspension for a play that occurred after a whistle and necessitated Thornton skating the length of the ice to engage Orpik. And I see Neal getting 1-2 for outright stupidity. That said....I hope he uses the Lucic defense. "I had my head down and I was skating after the puck, I didn't see him".
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If the ref would have added a 10 min misconduct to Thornton's roughing penalty the play may have been avoided, or least possibly had a different result.
They should take a serious look at fining teams who engage in "revenge penalties."
Solid points....although the league seems to like this type of thing. Their broadcast partner drums up interest for games by calling them "rivalries" and showing stuff just like this. How many times did we see Lucic run Miller prior to our nationally televised game?
As we watch clutching and grabbing go up, offense going down (even more so here), it seems like the league itself has zero concept on what it should be marketing and enforcing.
Around the NHL - 2013-2014
in The Aud Club
Posted
Sorry if I'm being dim, but doesn't that picture just show that Kadri is looking directly at the numbers and nameplate as he drives the guy into the wall? I get that he's a little bit to the side of him, but always thought that it was like clipping in football?