ska-T Palmtown
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Posts posted by ska-T Palmtown
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1 hour ago, JohnC said:
Why would Dallas want a Byram knowing that in a year he will pursuing a long term bonanza contract? And let’s not forget that Dallas is a serious Cup contending team that will likely make the required adjustments to keep him.
I do like Zucker a lot and how he plays. But I consider him a good third line player on a rugged line on a good team. However, when you have a dearth of talent you have to adjust to that reality, at least for the time being.
I also don't think trading for Byram solves Dallas's cap problems. He wants too much. The have like $5.73 or something. (notice the there is no "M" after that number, like five bucks ... seriously)
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4 minutes ago, Night Train said:
Benching him, then extending him. Can he ever stay healthy ? He better be working on his glass body.
He has essentially played full seasons in 2 out of his 3 years in the NHL. Seems like the injury season should be looked at as the outlier, no?
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1 minute ago, JohnC said:
You didn’t accurately read my posts on the JJP trade. As a singular deal I consider it to be a good/reasonable deal for us. In a wider context with likely upcoming trade/s that deal should look even better from the vantage of ending up with a better and more balanced roster. When all is said and done it is the end product that should be the focal point when judging the transactions.
I feel like I was mostly in some sort of broad agreement with your post. I was mostly using your post as a way into the convo, tbh. That said, while we may differ on our exact feelings of the JJ trade (and admittedly, I focuses almost entirely of the effects of that one trade in the second half of my ramblings), we both feel you can't judge the trade without the context of what happens around it, ie Terry simply pocketing the $5.5M or GM Howdy Doody actually doing something useful with it. In the end for me, if the Sabres make the playoffs this year, the JJ trade is water under the bridge.
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42 minutes ago, JohnC said:
The grades mean absolutely little without giving the context of the deal/s. Are the Sabres better with this deal and another deal that most likely will be made due to the cost saving from the JJP deal after he signed his contract? For the sake of discussion, if Rust is added to the roster that came to fruition because we didn't have to sign JJP, then the combined deals seem to result in a better and mature roster.
Adding Doan, Kesselring and Rust in my opinion does improve the roster in a variety of ways even if the JJP departure is factored in. It seems that you are just being reflexively negative. If you stand back a little and take a broader view I think you will have a more positive take on the eventual tabulation. Still TBD.
I think there is some value in saying if, If, IFFFFF, the Sabres uses that $5.5M savings to get Robertson or Marner, etc - then we could look back on the series of moves having been an overall success - and that would be more meaningful, at least to me.
By itself, still not happy with this trade. I liked JJ's game. There, I said it. It seems like some people (not necessarily you, JohnnySea) seem to think that strong 2-way forwards grow on trees. I am not even sure that brand of hockey is coached at the younger levels anymore. Even looking at the list of F's that get Selke votes, many of them are "meh" overall, but the crowd is thin.
In one of the other threads, it came up that the Sabres were 3-29 when scoring 2 or fewer goals. Solve the goalie, become an acceptably mediocre team that comfortably eeks into the playoffs. Can some of that come from better D? Sure, I guess. But without JJ, they may play MORE games scoring 2 or fewer goals, thus necessitating a proportionally stronger performance from the D and G. Classic Looney Tunes where Daffy is trying to plug the holes in the dam, but runs out of fingers (? you, the kind disney ducks have)
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37 minutes ago, Thorny said:
Great post. Anecdotally I had perceived them to be front runners, seems there’s some statistical backing
I am fascinated by the Sabres going 33-17 when scoring 3 or more. I know few teams average 3 a game, but the Sabres did it FIFTY times.
50 games, 218 goals ... so for 61% of the season they averaged just over 4 goals per game.
The other 32 ... 3-29 ... WTF? 47 goals ... or a paltry 1.5 (if you round up) ... 🤮 Scoring 2 or fewer 32 times and having your goalie bail you out (checks notes ...) THRICE!?!?! We can rag on the defense all we want - but ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we need look no further than between the pipes. Nothing further your honor.
edit: tagging @stenbaro since they did the original work - I don't want to take credit!
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13 minutes ago, JohnC said:
If he's bringing you 45 pts in a top six role then in my opinion he's not a top six player. I have extolled the virtues of Benson as a player as much as most people here. However, because of his current lack of physical development I don't see him being a top two caliber of player. Will he eventually do so? I'm confident that he will. But right now, I would say no. I have never felt that he was a liability playing on the top line. But that is not to say that I felt that he was providing the team first line production.
If he comes into camp more physically developed than in his prior years, then good for him and the team. I will be open minded about where he should be slotted. But what I have seen so far that type of leap forward is a lot faster than I expect.
45 points puts you at around 150th in the league in scoring. 91 of those players are listed by ESPN as "C" or "D" (yes i know there is discrepancy between where they are listed and where they play) ... that means ~ 60 wings scored 45 or more points last year. Given that 2 wings per team play on the TOP line ... one could make an argument that 45 points as a wing is borderline TOP line production.
Not sure where the arbitrary nature of "45 points is not top 6 production" comes from. But stats don't back it up. I think there was a long discussion on McLeod in this same context. In today's watered down NHL, not every top line player is putting in 90 points ...
Edit: Dang, @dudacek typed less and beat me to it! and I was totally debating the point 🙂
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12 hours ago, Thorny said:
Keep telling yourself that so you can make yourself feel better that making the playoffs doesn’t actually matter 👍
It matters. It’s what most fans want. It’s a ridiculously low bar, it IS attainable, it is because of the FRANCHISE we don’t have it, and no matter how much you so desperately want to blame the fans, you can’t do it.
You desperately, desperately need to tell yourself that the fans interests are disingenuous - it terrifies you that what the fans want is actually attainable and that the franchise is responsible. For you, you HAVE to believe the fans can’t be happy. You NEED to believe the organization can’t satisfy.
the simple admittance most fans would be happy with playoffs torpedoes the image of the org and by dammnit Promo wont have itWhile I don't agree that "all" of Sabrespace would still be negative after a playoff berth and a quick exit - you do have to admit it is not too hard to imagine all the "blow it up, we are terrible" threads after said first round exit.
What I also so is the (fairly substantial) "Hey, we could end the drought this year" crowd morphing into the "OK, we made the playoffs, here is why I think we could build on it" crowd. After FOURTEEN freaking years, there is actually a shocking amount of optimism around this playoff-desert team, lol.
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1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:
And when the Sabres do break the drought, so what? Really. What changes? Nothing.
TF? It would be pretty easy to argue a lot could change (I won't definitively say it will, since I am not a mystic soothsayer with the ability to see and/or predict the future) ... for one; the "they never make the playoffs" stink could come off - leading to coming off a NMC list or two? Attract a slightly higher tier FA? I won't be so bold as to predict a Bills-like turnaround since the Sabres don't have a JA17 just yet (nor do i think "franchise-altering QB" translates to the NHL unless we land another Hasek?) Players have hope for once in their miserable careers that staying in Buffalo is not a death-sentence? Instead of wilting like delicate flowers in a heat wave the following spring, they gut it out and make the playoffs again? This time with some added confidence and experience? The city and fanbase can let loose with a small sigh of relief that maybe, just maybe, they aren't actually cursed?
I know we are all down on what is going on ... but to imply nothing would change if they made the playoffs? A bit hyperbolic, no?
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1 minute ago, oddoublee said:
Yeah, 2 of last 3 seasons were healthy. Which begs the question; what kind of production should we be really expecting from our soon to be 24 year old winger? Id wager, not all that much.
had not really meant to steer the thread - jAcK QuInN iS AlWaYs HuRt is just one of my trigger points 🙂 That said - similar to @LGR4GM's comment above, I think he has the potential to be a 30g scorer (he has the SHOT, that is for sure) - given he has had more apples than goals I guess 30-35a as well?
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1 minute ago, Gatorman0519 said:
Another bad year and Him and Dahlin are goners. We are probably the worst franchise in modern history. It is crucial we make significant progress this year or the franchise will be clearly in a death spiral if we are not already.
To be fair (although it is football), the Bills had a 17-year drought and the Sabres are currently tied with the J-E-T-S at 14 for the longest active streak. I honestly don't see the Jests ending theirs this year, so here's to hoping the Sabres can!
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1 minute ago, Gatorman0519 said:
When we passed Rossi for him I almost fell over. Another blunder.
Rossi - 0.55 pts/game in 185 games
Quinn - 0.54 pts/game in 178 games
Granted Rossi's point totals were 1 (in 19 games!), 40, then 60 and Mr. Quinn has gone 37, 19, 39 ... but as of today - no real overall difference. We'll see what '25-26 brings, i guess 🙂
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1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:
Quinn also missed 25 or so games in Rochester in 21-22.
Sports hernia - same thing Ras (probably) had to start the 24-25 season. It does weaken my point a bit ... I guess if he gets injured this year, I will hang my head in shame and embark on a whirlwind apology tour 🙂 If he doesn't? Man, ain't nobody ever heard as much "I-told-you-so"ing as I am gonna do!!!
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2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:
Quinn and Norris' inability to stay healthy concern me. I don't get the Benson love to me he feels like another Krebs, 3rd/4th line guy at best. Kullich could replace JJP points but feel JJP has more skill.
Jack Quinn's "inability to stay healthy" is a myth. He had ONE SEASON where he had two bad luck injuries, otherwise:
And he was benched for at least 2 of the 8 he missed in 24-25. Pleez stahp!
Also note (for others who like this narrative, too) - the injuries did not diminish his play. Since coming back from the Achilles injury - 58 pts in 101 games, roughly 0.57 pts/game and it was 0.49 before. If someone wants to say the injuries set his development back, sure. I think he even said he wished he had been stronger to start last season. Quinn is at least as good as he was his rookie season ...
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6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:
I couldn't care less about any of our 2026 picks.
The only way I care about the 2026 1st round pick is if they have a shot at 1OA and McKenna. But ... that means they sucked balls again in 25-26 ... so that means I probably no longer care? Vicious cycle.
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7 hours ago, LTS said:
I think there's something to be said that when you are "in the ****" it's not always easy to step out of it, break it down, and derive a strategy. He could have had the clarity the day after the losing streak ended. As it stands once the team broke the streak they could have all looked at what they finally did to win and have a light bulb go off. It still equates to looking back and figuring out why they didn't realize it sooner, etc. Naturally if he had the clarity after game 5 or 6 or 10 then it would not have been a 13 game losing streak.
Zucker didn't back away from anything and that is to be respected. He genuinely came across as a guy who realizes his career is winding down and wants to improve his skills at helping other players develop. It sounds like a coach mindset. The Sabres need it and I think he's making an impact.
Understandable, for sure. And I stressed that I sensed sincerity in his words. Being a Buffalo sports fan has just taught me to be wary. I really liked Zucker's answers and liked the way he handled himself and he appears to have some sick ink. You could 100% see his enthusiasm on the bench when a teammate succeeded. And he always looks like he just scored his first NHL goal when he scores, so excited. 10/10 - totally glad they re-signed him.
I would hope everyone in that lockerroom is/was disappointed they were not the one that broke The Streak sooner. Anyone who doesn't think "man, if i had just ..." does not care about winning and should probably leave.
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8 hours ago, Doohickie said:
Especially his reaction to the question about how was it to come to the "Oh Woe Is Me Buffalo Sabres" and he basically said to stop yer whinin'.
It is all well and good - and I think there was a ton of sincerity in his answers, but we'll see next year. I am a Sabres fan, so I am conditioned to react this way; but if he has all this clarity the day after the season ends about what he could have done better as a "older guy", where was this clarity after game 5 or 6 or 10 of The Streak? I want to believe him, I really really do - having a player like the one he sounds like in that interview is crucial for this team, I just hope (which is a sh1tty thing) that he can put it into action next year.
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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:
Not exact, but that argument's pointless. He's in his correct role and he does his job that's it. We are always shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.
Because of the way the Sabres are constructed top to bottom, more is expected from players lower in the depth chart. But given that we are in the upper 1/3 of the league in GF, I would say the players are generally scoring at the appropriate rates (perhaps they have a few more 1-2 man efforts, which is reflected in their lower than average assist rates i think?) They just need to find the players who can play some team defense!
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5 minutes ago, sabresouth said:
Agreed, he's not on the same level of Dahlin but I think he will be a top four defenseman in his prime
But "top 4 defenseman" is not actually that great of an achievement ... that means he is in the upper 2/3 of all defensemen? #1 overall pick ... yikes.
Or to put it another way, only 1/3 of all NHL defenseman rank below him? The Sabres need him to be a guy that would challenge for the #1 defenseman on half the other teams in the league.
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I always assume the "haha" reaction means people are laughing WITH me .... right?
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1 minute ago, Thorner said:
They should attack the roster on the grounds of needing to upgrade this:
Benson - McLeod - Thompson
Peterka - Kulich - Tuch
Zucker - Krebs - Quinn
Greenway - Malenstyn - Lafferty
Samuelsson - DahlinByram - Clifton
Byyson - Bernard-Docker
.. to a playoff team
I think an obvious need presents in a multitude of spots
My own personal blind spot lies in the fact that none of the players (Maybe Bryson? and 24-25 Quinn - and maybe Laffer?), taken in a vacuum don't have a place on a playoff team. Playoff teams are not some magical top-to-bottom McDavid clones. All playoff teams have role players. Evan freaking Rodriguez did just fine for FL.
The problem with the Sabres, as Mr. Thorny, PhD has pointed out repeatedly is that the construction of this roster forces those players into situations that they would not face on a playoff team.
Make the upgrades with vengeance and a cold, calculated malice, Mr. GM Howdy Doody!
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2 hours ago, JohnC said:
If he departed it would leave a major void on this roster. The way this team is currently assembled I would now consider him to be an indispensable player. Stats don't reflect his value to this team. He has attributes on and off the ice that when measured understate his true value to this team. When it comes to contract negotiation, this player is in the driver seat of this flat-tired bus of this deflated franchise. As someone else stated: The issue is more does he want to be here than the franchise's desire to sign him.
His blocked shots and shorties combined with is essentially point/game play does not actually seem to understate this play. I think what does that is his moderate stretches of inconsistent production. Whether via injury or if he is just by nature a little bit streaky. This is not meant as a damning critique of Sir Alex. I like him and I bet ol' GM Howdy Doody took plenty of calls from playoff teams looking to pry him away from us.
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26 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
Here is a possible (but unlikely) go for it roster that is cap compliant
1) Sign Marner 7 years @ 13.5
2) Trade UPL, Norris and other assets for Demko and Pettersson. Re-sign Demko for 5 x 5
3) Trade Power for Marino (M-NTC) and other assets
4) Trade Zucker, Quinn, Lafferty and Clifton for assets. (It’s possible assets acquired in these deals would replace Orlov and/or Brannstrom)
5) Sign Dimitry Orlov for 3x 3.3
6) re-sign McLeod 3x 4.5, JJP 5 x 6.5, Levi 2 x 1.25, JBD 2 x 1.25, Brannstrom 1 x 1, and Kozak 1 x 900K
7) sign a depth forward (or acquire one in a step 4 trade @900k).
8.) lastly to make this work we need to trade Greenway for a forward @ around 2.5 mill a season or less. The issue is Greenway was given a M-NTC.
9) Buyout Samuelsson if we can’t trade him.Roster
Marner TNT Benson
JJP Pettersson Tuch
Kulich McLeod Greenway replacement
Krebs Kozak Malenstyn (depth FA)
Dahlin Marino
Byram Orlov
Brannstrom JCB (Bryson)
Demko Levi
The cap cost with Skinner’s and Samuelsson buyouts would be 95.6 million. The defense after the top 2 pairs is suspect, but with Novikov and Komarov in the minors I’m ok with risking it. Also Östlund is a prospect I’m not including in any deals because I need him for depth.
It is scary, but I have really come around the opinion that the Sabres have too many "OK" guys. I think that forward group is better than what they had this year and although it might be younger (with the subtraction of Zucks?) - it feels more ... mature?
That third d pairing is a little scary and I would like the Sabres to make the playoffs next year, but dice are meant for rolling, I guess.
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5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:
I'm sorry, but I no longer see this as a major issue for this team moving forward. The Tuch, Greenway, Malenstyn, Norris and McLeod acquisitions helped in this area, as have the additions of Kozak, Benson and Kulich from the minors plus improvements from Krebs. I think the Sabres have 6-7 decent to good defensive forwards to throw at end of game situations and that's plenty. Also Östlund is good defensively and near NHL ready if we have to call someone up from the minors.
I still have PTSD from their heroic run to 9th a few seasons ago. Suddenly they were playing tight D, controlling the puck and scoring just enough to win. It was incredible. I was standing at full attention as to what the following year would be ... then we saw it. I just can't buy into these late season mirages.
Marner is ideal. Scoring, playmaking, and upper end defensive skills for a forward. I realize cap hell is the future if they go that way. But ... why can't they be the team that takes the swing and attempts to defy all the odds?
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2 hours ago, dudacek said:
😜
Arguing on the internet with people who are very likely complete strangers is every person's god-given right! 😉
Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan
in The Aud Club
Posted
Maybe Adams was like "how aboot 4x$4M?" ... i can see not dignifying that with a response, lol.