LabattBlue Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I absolutely would not trade these three... Vanek Miller Briere ...and these 5 players who I think the Sabres can build around. I would rather not see them traded, but it depends on the players coming back in return.... Drury(he's won me over) Gaustad(The kind of character player you build around...future captain) Lydman(assuming the Sabres can sign him to a new contract) Kalinin(I know he has struggled, but his upside is great) Tallinder(his play has gone unnoticed recently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber61 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 i agree with the first 3 Vanek Briere Miller and the 5 that id add to that and maybe trade if a REALLY good offer came by are: Afinogenov (lots of energy, draws penalties, fills seats) Gaustad (pure grit and hard work dedication with heart) Connolly (Seems to have turned it around, another year and he'll be solid) Roy (TREMENDOUS upside and potential still to be unlocked) Drury (slowly becoming the goal scoring captain we need) I agree with alot of what you said there blue... you have some real good picks there i just love to watch european speedsters like afinogenov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I absolutely would not trade these three... Vanek Miller Briere ...and these 5 players who I think the Sabres can build around. I would rather not see them traded, but it depends on the players coming back in return.... Drury(he's won me over) Gaustad(The kind of character player you build around...future captain) Lydman(assuming the Sabres can sign him to a new contract) Kalinin(I know he has struggled, but his upside is great) Tallinder(his play has gone unnoticed recently) I don't believe that there should be any players on this roster that can't be moved for the right offer. That being said here is how I look at the talent on this roster. Players I would not move unless it was for something ridiculously good primarily because they have potential to become elite players and the Sabres will hold their rights for several more seasons. Miller Vanek Players that are just a shade under that classification. Briere Drury Players that I would actively try to avoid including in a trade package. Gaustad Connolly Hecht Kalinin Lydman Noronen (He has too much potential upside for me to believe the Sabres will get offered what I believe he is worth.) (I seriously considered adding Tallinder, Roy, and Pominville to this list but they just missed the cut. Dumont, McKee, Kotalik, and Campbell are others that I considered placing on the list.) Players that likely will be discussed in trade talks that the Sabres may be willing to part with. I do not expect to see any more than 4 players tops traded off this roster, and my most likely scenario is Marty, a forward, and either a Rochester player or a draft pick going for a player or players. Please note: the players I have placed on this list are NOT necessarily players that I want to see traded, but they are players that I think the Sabres will consider to be available for the right offer. (Actually, the only player on this list that I want to see traded is Marty and that is strictly due to numbers issues with the roster. I like Marty and hope he is successful wherever he ends up (preferably in the WC).) Biron Kotalik Afinogenov Roy Pominville Dumont Pyatt Paille McKee (The only reason he is on this list is I don't know that the Sabres will be able to re-sign him this offseason.) Tallinder Campbell Players that I do not expect to see traded (either because of age or because of filling a niche on the team). Grier Mair Numminen Players that will only be gone if the other team has salary cap issues. Peters Fitzpatrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber61 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Players that will only be gone if the other team has salary cap issues. Peters Fitzpatrick we can only pray.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Players that I would actively try to avoid including in a trade package. Nice analysis overall and your wording that I quoted is perfect. Oversight on my part...Hecht is not a guy I would like to see traded and consider him the type of player you need more of come playoff time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR HOLLIDAY Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Miller Vanek Trading those guys will earn you the title of "dumb ass" for years to come.......... B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Nice analysis overall and your wording that I quoted is perfect. Oversight on my part...Hecht is not a guy I would like to see traded and consider him the type of player you need more of come playoff time. I hear what you say about Hecht. What do you do if a team offers you something that may not help today but helps set you up for the future? Because of the teams start does the focus change from the future to the now? Not that a team would. But just for the sake of conversation. If a team offered you a #1 pick for Hecht would you take it? How about a #1 for Grier? Or how about a #1 and a teams two top prospects rated as can't miss for Miller? Just something to throw around till Thursday. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I hear what you say about Hecht. What do you do if a team offers you something that may not help today but helps set you up for the future? Because of the teams start does the focus change from the future to the now? Not that a team would. But just for the sake of conversation. If a team offered you a #1 pick for Hecht would you take it? How about a #1 for Grier? Or how about a #1 and a teams two top prospects rated as can't miss for Miller? Just something to throw around till Thursday. ;) Depends on the team offering the #1 pick and where they will probably end up. a #1 pick for Hecht...no a #1 pick for Grier...he's been playing better, but I'd do it in a heartbeat. a #1 and two can't miss prospects for Miller...I'd be tempted, but I'd say no. I want to believe Miller can be the Sabres #1 goalie and an NHL allstar for the next 6-8 years. You are right about one thing. The focus of the team has changed completely and it now looks as if we can be Cup contenders possibly this year and definetely the couple years after that. It all hinges on one thing though, the play of Ryan Miller. Can he become a top notch playoff goalie? GO SABRES!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I hear what you say about Hecht. What do you do if a team offers you something that may not help today but helps set you up for the future? Because of the teams start does the focus change from the future to the now? Not that a team would. But just for the sake of conversation. If a team offered you a #1 pick for Hecht would you take it? How about a #1 for Grier? Or how about a #1 and a teams two top prospects rated as can't miss for Miller? Just something to throw around till Thursday. ;) It depends how far out into the future and what exactly it is that is being offered (nice weasely answer, but the question was rather broad). The focus should be a combination of now and future. I have stated several times that I don't see this team as it is currently assembled to be more than a darkhorse candidate for the SC. I DO NOT want to see this team mortgage the future for a serious run at the SC this season. I would be very surprised to see Darcy do that as he didn't mortgage the future leading up to either of the 2 serious SC runs the team took under his tenure ('99 & '01). (Things went kerpluey during / after the '01 run, but that is a discussion that has been beat to death under other threads.) Ideally, I'd hope that Darcy and Larry have a model for the team that seeks to maximize team value. The best way to maximize team value (IMHO) is to keep the current team competitive and continue to develop / obtain young talent to keep the team competitive in future years. Answers to 3 consecutive Q's: No; Since I see no scenario where it could be a high lottery pick - no; If 1 of the prospects is a goalie and is tearing up the AHL right now AND the pick is a lottery pick AND the prospect is a Spezza then I'd think about it. Personally, I think Miller is a "can't miss prospect" and he is maintaining that status in the big show. I don't want to lose him for anything short of a spectacular offer. Remember, Pittsburgh thought that they had at least 2 (if not 3) can't miss prospects for Jagr and none of the 3 are playing in Pittsburgh's organization now just 5 years later. I understand the driving force of the deal was $'s, but still; can't miss prospects sometimes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Answers to 3 consecutive Q's: No; Since I see no scenario where it could be a high lottery pick - no; If 1 of the prospects is a goalie and is tearing up the AHL right now AND the pick is a lottery pick AND the prospect is a Spezza then I'd think about it. Personally, I think Miller is a "can't miss prospect" and he is maintaining that status in the big show. I don't want to lose him for anything short of a spectacular offer. Dave...No to a #1 for Grier? I'm sure the Sabres could find a Grier type player at the trade deadline for next to nothing. I know he's a good checking forward, but I wouldn't think twice about it, even if it is a #1 pick at the end of the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I would be very surprised to see Darcy do that as he didn't mortgage the future leading up to either of the 2 serious SC runs the team took under his tenure ('99 & '01). (Things went kerpluey during / after the '01 run, but that is a discussion that has been beat to death under other threads.) I think of 1998 as a serious Cup run as well, and I don't remember the future being mortgaged that year, either. It would have to be a HUGE can't miss for me, as a fan, to find a Miller trade acceptable right now. Maybe I'll rethink that in a couple of years if Miller doesn't pan out, but right now it looks like he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Dave...No to a #1 for Grier? I'm sure the Sabres could find a Grier type player at the trade deadline for next to nothing. I know he's a good checking forward, but I wouldn't think twice about it, even if it is a #1 pick at the end of the round. I would not be surprised if I am the only person on the board that would say no to that trade (or at least significantly in the minority). But there are several reasons for my opinion. 1. Draft picks are notoriously hit or miss. Darcy has done very well IMO since the criminals went away, so he's probably due for a miss. 2. Draft picks that aren't lottery type picks tend to be ~4 years away from being useful. Grier is useful now and the team could be a legitimate contender w/in 3 years if Miller pans out. I would prefer not to build for that far out into the future. 3. With Drury and Briere and Dumont all out with injuries, Grier is wearing an A. I can't see Lindy Ruff "allowing" Darcy to trade one of his leaders for a player that can't help the team for at least the next 240 or so games. 4. Team chemistry could be adversely affected for someone that can't help for a long time out. Chris Drury is the co-captain of this team and really gets along well with Grier, I think he would look at a trade of Grier for a draft pick to definitely be a slap at Grier and possibly one at himself as well. (I've never met Chris, so that is clearly speculation on my part; but it factors into my reasoning.) 5. Getting offered a 1st rounder for Grier seems to me to be the wildest speculation of the 3 hypotheticals. Since it ain't gonna happen, I'm not too worried about it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think of 1998 as a serious Cup run as well, and I don't remember the future being mortgaged that year, either. It would have to be a HUGE can't miss for me, as a fan, to find a Miller trade acceptable right now. Maybe I'll rethink that in a couple of years if Miller doesn't pan out, but right now it looks like he will. It WAS a serious cup run in the sense that Buffalo had a very legitimate chance to beat the Caps and get to the finals. It wasn't in the sense that Detroit was head and shoulders better than the Sabres even with Dom between the pipes. I think the Sabres would have won at least 1 game against Detroit and perhaps a 2nd, but I just don't see how they manage to steal 4 away from them that year. In '99, the Sabres were a goal and a W away from a parade and in '01 I felt they matched up well with the Av's. They beat them that year in the Pepsi Center with Marty in the net. (They also absolutely owned NJ that year; 4-0 15 GF - 3GA.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 The only thing I can really offer up to this conversation is that draft picks are a dime a dozen. So many are hit or miss. Gaustad, Pominville, and a host of others were low draft picks while Kriukov, Paille and all our Goalies were high picks. Most people figured Connely any Pyatt were sure things but right now one is just realizing his potential while the other is a huge (?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddkaz Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Vanek and Miller are the only players that maybe be untouchable but even then who wouldn't trade those players if the right deal came along. Next year Miller could be the best goalie in the NHL and Vanek will never be an Ovechkin but he will be as good as any other first line winger. GO SABRES GO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSabre Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 untouchable: Vanek Miller Drury Breire Kalinin Connelly apart from Peters, Pyatt and fitz everyone just comes under only for a high price. the three mentioned i wish to shoot, since we will get nothing for a large paperwieght. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I wouldn't trade: Miller Vanek Briere Drury Kotalik Pominville I would move Biron or Noronnen sooner rather than later. I want to wait for the right deal...but if it comes to taking a less than perfect trade, or having to put someone on waivers because there is no room on the roster, I would take the less than perfect trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Depends on the team offering the #1 pick and where they will probably end up. a #1 pick for Hecht...no a #1 pick for Grier...he's been playing better, but I'd do it in a heartbeat. a #1 and two can't miss prospects for Miller...I'd be tempted, but I'd say no. I want to believe Miller can be the Sabres #1 goalie and an NHL allstar for the next 6-8 years. You are right about one thing. The focus of the team has changed completely and it now looks as if we can be Cup contenders possibly this year and definetely the couple years after that. It all hinges on one thing though, the play of Ryan Miller. Can he become a top notch playoff goalie? GO SABRES!!!!!! I wouldn't give up Miller right now. He impressed me at the beginning of the year, and has completely outdone himself since coming back from the injury. He has great numbers on the year, and he is a clutch player. I think this is going to translate to him being a strong playoff going. I know his playoff stats with Rochester weren't the best, but I have a strong feeling that he is going to be great for us in the playoffs this year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I would not be surprised if I am the only person on the board that would say no to that trade (or at least significantly in the minority). But there are several reasons for my opinion. 1. Draft picks are notoriously hit or miss. Darcy has done very well IMO since the criminals went away, so he's probably due for a miss. 2. Draft picks that aren't lottery type picks tend to be ~4 years away from being useful. Grier is useful now and the team could be a legitimate contender w/in 3 years if Miller pans out. I would prefer not to build for that far out into the future. 3. With Drury and Briere and Dumont all out with injuries, Grier is wearing an A. I can't see Lindy Ruff "allowing" Darcy to trade one of his leaders for a player that can't help the team for at least the next 240 or so games. 4. Team chemistry could be adversely affected for someone that can't help for a long time out. Chris Drury is the co-captain of this team and really gets along well with Grier, I think he would look at a trade of Grier for a draft pick to definitely be a slap at Grier and possibly one at himself as well. (I've never met Chris, so that is clearly speculation on my part; but it factors into my reasoning.) 5. Getting offered a 1st rounder for Grier seems to me to be the wildest speculation of the 3 hypotheticals. Since it ain't gonna happen, I'm not too worried about it either way. How about this one. Say the Flyers believe it's do or die because of the salary cap. They think they have only a one year window. They decide they need Drury. And they are willing to trade their version of a Thomas Vanek to get him. You've seen the kid play. He has all the same skills almost a Vanek clone. It would be like having two Vaneks on the roster for the next 10 years. If you were GM would you make the deal? Would you be willing to take a step back this season for many steps forward in future seasons? I bring this up because of a discussion some friends and I were having last weekend. Are fans in love with this team and it's direction or are they in love with the success? Would you as a fan sacrifice a level of success this season inorder to build for the future? Remember. It's just for conversation sake. I am not advocating the trading of anyone in this post. I am just throwing out some topics. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 How about this one. Say the Flyers believe it's do or die because of the salary cap. They think they have only a one year window. They decide they need Drury. And they are willing to trade their version of a Thomas Vanek to get him. You've seen the kid play. He has all the same skills almost a Vanek clone. It would be like having two Vaneks on the roster for the next 10 years. If you were GM would you make the deal? Would you be willing to take a step back this season for many steps forward in future seasons? I bring this up because of a discussion some friends and I were having last weekend. Are fans in love with this team and it's direction or are they in love with the success? Would you as a fan sacrifice a level of success this season inorder to build for the future? Remember. It's just for conversation sake. I am not advocating the trading of anyone in this post. I am just throwing out some topics. ;) Anything anybody offers me, I am going to ask for more. That said, who is Philly's Vanek? Are you talking Richards, Carter, or someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddkaz Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Deluca ???? VANEK CLONE??? How old are you 9? We deal with the real NHL not the VANEL CLONE NHL???/ LOL <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddkaz Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 We have no untouchables, some guy said Connolly????He was washed up according to all of you guys?lol So Briere? Vanek? What if Heatley or Spezza or Nash or Iginla or Heatley or Hossa or Crosby or Joe Thorton or Eric Staal or Datsyuk ect.... you would turn it down for Vanek or Connelly or Drury or Briere???? then we are stupid Buffalo Fans??? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Hossa is probably the only guy you could get for all 4 of those players combined. I think only "stupid fans" would think we could get any of those other players for any combination of players on our roster. Good NHL teams aren't looking to give up franchise players for a bunch of really good NHL players. If you want to look at players on St. Louis, Vacouver or Pittsburg you might be able to pry some of their better players away with a combination of those players along with a Goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddkaz Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Like Playing EA Sony hockey..... You could trade 2 good players ie. Biron and Kalinin for Heyduk then turn around and trade Hejduk and a second round pick and pick up a really good defenceman. Just a thought :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Anything anybody offers me, I am going to ask for more. That said, who is Philly's Vanek? Are you talking Richards, Carter, or someone else? Nothing specific. I was talking more in theory. I don't even know if they have a Vanek like prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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