GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[Bmwolf21]

Dwight, the stats you posted for Ryan cover his entire career, which includes his 15-game rookie season (2002-03), while your totals for Marty appear to be from 2003-04 and on, skewing the comparison a bit.

 

By adding Marty's numbers from 2002-03 (17-28-6; 2.56 GAA and .908 SV) this is how your comparison shapes up:

W - L - T GAA SV%

 

Marty 70-55-11 2.65 .900

 

Ryan 45-26-1 2.71 .908

FWIW, I still don't get the "he might retire to start a garage band"-type comments that seem to resurface every time we talk about Ryan. I've seen most of his interviews, and while he isn't a cliche-spouting machine, I haven't seen anything that makes me think he'll just walk away one day to hang with his buddies or get high with Wickey Williams.

Interesting people forget how well Marty played during the time Ryan was out last year. there is no debate about who is the guy I want in net when its crunch time and thats miller but marty provided that good backup scenario.

During that stretch, Marty did play pretty good. He played well enough to win, and make some noise about being traded somewhere else, but I don't think anyone is saying that right now he is playing anywhere near as well as he was during that streak.

But the calls for Dennis are ridiculous. We have NEVER seen the guy play! He has NEVER played an NHL game, and has played 5 whole games as a pro. FIVE! Marty has won more games this season in the NHL and he hasn't even played well. You have all the evidence in the world that if the team plays well in front of him, Biron wins. He's not perfect, but he wins more often than not ... isn't that the textbook definition of a backup goalie?

If Ryan isn't ready for the weeknd, then we have to see Dennis for either Friday or Saturday. Marty has played 5 straight, going back to the NYR game, and we have back-to-back Friday & Saturday games, followed by Mon-Wed-Fri games. If Ryan's injury nags even a little bit, we cannot expect Marty to handle the strain of 10 straight games over 17 days.

[BetweenThePipes00]

If Ryan isn't ready for the weeknd, then we have to see Dennis for either Friday or Saturday. Marty has played 5 straight, going back to the NYR game, and we have back-to-back Friday & Saturday games, followed by Mon-Wed-Fri games. If Ryan's injury nags even a little bit, we cannot expect Marty to handle the strain of 10 straight games over 17 days.

 

Why? Everyone wants Miller to play every game but now we are afraid that marty is tired? He's gonna get 10 games off in a row when Miller comes back. He'll be fine.

 

Besides, the point was that people were calling for him not because of the schedule but because he was somehow a better option, all things being equal. That's what is ridiculous.

[Done]

Dwight, the stats you posted for Ryan cover his entire career, which includes his 15-game rookie season (2002-03), while your totals for Marty appear to be from 2003-04 and on, skewing the comparison a bit.

 

By adding Marty's numbers from 2002-03 (17-28-6; 2.56 GAA and .908 SV) this is how your comparison shapes up:

 

 

 

I see what you are saying........my point is that there isn't as huge a talent gap as some are making.

[X. Benedict]

I'm using those numbers because both goalies had the EXACT SAME TEAM in front of them. And to say it was Miller's rookie year? Marty is 2 years+ older than Miller, not a huge difference.

 

If I show up at the HSBC on Friday and Denis is in net without Biron being injured or tired.....I want my money back.

 

Denis probably had a hot AHL start because there is no book on him.

 

If I were to play against Biron right now, I would have the entire team throwing things at him from the goal line - or shooting high because he is going down to soon.

 

As for Denis, we will see how he looks once every team in the AHL has faced him once.

[BetweenThePipes00]

 

Denis probably had a hot AHL start because there is no book on him.

 

If I were to play against Biron right now, I would have the entire team throwing things at him from the goal line - or shooting high because he is going down to soon.

 

As for Denis, we will see how he looks once every team in the AHL has faced him once.

 

True, although I don't know if they keep "books" in the AHL ;) ... but since the other goalies on the team are 8-0, it could also be because he had the better team in front of him every night.

 

Huh ... might not be all about the goalie. Never thought of that :wallbash:

 

;)

[MartyHavlatismyGOD]

What would you want as a number 2? Some malcontent that divides a locker room. Most of the Sens admit that they had a divided locker room last year with Hasek/Emery.

 

... Or gerber/emery this year. To all ottawa fans its a no brainer - Muckler probably doesnt wanna admit he was a douchebag in signing goober though.

[X. Benedict]

... Or gerber/emery this year. To all ottawa fans its a no brainer - Muckler probably doesnt wanna admit he was a douchebag in signing goober though.

 

His comment to the Buffalo media was this:

 

There is a reason we were in a bidding war for him.

 

(Excuse me John, but it was a bidding war that you went out of your way to win!) :wallbash:

[BetweenThePipes00]

 

... Or gerber/emery this year. To all ottawa fans its a no brainer - Muckler probably doesnt wanna admit he was a douchebag in signing goober though.

 

Marty, you are a better man than I reading through all this bickering when you have no real attachment ... I could never do that on another team's board. :worthy:

[nfreeman]

Revisionist history. The year after Hasek left, Marty played 72 games and had a GAA of 2.21 and a SvPCT of .915? Funny, according to the stats on NHL.com Marty was in the top 10 in GAA and SVpct. Top 10 goaltending and that team did not make the playoffs. We were just so used to Hasek stealing game after game, it looked worse than it was.

 

I agree, Marty got worse the following year, but so did the team. They scored a whopping 190 goals, fewer than they ever scored with Hasek. The team sucked.

 

The year before the lockout, you can hang that one on Marty, no argument, the offense was starting to come around at the end and he (and Noronen) dug them way to big a hole.

 

(BTW, it's time to let Noronen go. he sucked in Vancouver and then could not run home fast enough to be with his girlfriend. His head was never in playing over here.)

 

Biron is never going to be what many thought he could be. (although I think it is very interesting that his best season, by far, was when he was never looking over his shoulder and no one was calling for his head).

 

He's a great BACKUP, and in fact the perfect backup for a team like this with a real chance to win the Cup. His experience is a luxury. But you guys are not treating him as a backup. Any other backup, and it would be "just give us a chance to win." Well, he stopped 3 breakaways and gave up one whole goal that was not deflected. Even if he stops the soft one that you are all dwelling on, all that does is get them to overtime. Now., if they had lost in Philly, you could say he lost them that game, and I would agree 100%. That should not have gone to OT, and it was soft goals on Biron to blame.

 

But the calls for Dennis are ridiculous. We have NEVER seen the guy play! He has NEVER played an NHL game, and has played 5 whole games as a pro. FIVE! Marty has won more games this season in the NHL and he hasn't even played well. You have all the evidence in the world that if the team plays well in front of him, Biron wins. He's not perfect, but he wins more often than not ... isn't that the textbook definition of a backup goalie?

 

Yet you want to throw a rookie out there against Crosby and Malkin who you have no idea what you are getting and maybe lose a 6-5 game? Really? In the process screwing with Marty's head and maybe making Miller rush back, and if he gets hurt again all of a sudden you NEED Marty again?

 

YES, that's all B.S. speculation, I don't think ANY of that would happen. But hey, if you guys can assume based on nothing that Dennis is better than a guy who has been a pro for 10 years, I can assume the worst possible scenario.

 

 

BTP -- excellent post, as always. Permit me to respond:

 

1. I'm calling for Dennis not because I think he's better than Marty. You are right -- that reasoning would be ridiculous as neither I nor anyone else here has any idea whether he can play in the NHL. I'm just saying that I'd like to see what he's got.

 

We have 4 games coming up in 6 nights. Based on what I'm hearing/reading about Miller, it seems quite possible that he will miss all 4. I feel like I know what we have with Marty. I have zero confidence that Marty will play any better in the next 6 nights than he has over the past 7-10 days, which, IMHO has been below average to lousy. So, I'd like to give Dennis a shot either Fri. or Sat. to see whether he responds. If he stinks, he stinks, and we're back to Marty. I don't think this will "mess with Marty's head" -- Noronen got a couple of chances last year during Marty's winning streak and Marty did just as well afterwards as he did before.

 

2. I don't think saying that Marty was a huge step down from Dom is revisionist history. He may have finished the year in the top 10 statistically, but do you really think he was a top 10 goalie that year? IIRC, he was awful in the 1st half of the year and then came on strong in the 2nd half -- when we were already buried in the standings, so there was no pressure b/c we were already out of it.

 

This IMHO has been a consistent theme throughout his career -- he can play pretty well when the pressure's off, but when you really need him, he lets you down and the team sags. Leaving aside the huge difference in ability between him and Dom, I always thought the team played a lot better in front of Dom b/c Dom gave them tons of confidence. (BTW I thought the same was true of the Senators last year -- they were awesome until he got hurt, but without him a lot of air came out of the balloon).

 

3. I also agree that Marty shouldn't be viewed as anything more than a backup and in fact that he is a good backup. my point was simply that the frequent calls for him to start over Miller or for him to be traded in exchange for a handsome bounty are just nonsense.

 

4. And I'm not pining away for Mika. I just think there's a very good case to be made that we should've kept him instead of Marty. Mika's attitude might've been much better had he been the clear #2 here, instead of #3. Buffalo is also a lot closer to home for him than Vancouver is (which is one of the big reasons Spacek came here from Edmonton). And we certainly would have had quite a bit more cap room this year, as well as a baked-in solution on our #2 next year. Would Mika have performed as well as Marty has in the #2 role? Who knows? But I don't think Marty has played especially well, so I don't think we could say that it's clear based on their respective histories that Mika wouldn't have played as well as Marty has.

 

that's all.

[BetweenThePipes00]

2. I don't think saying that Marty was a huge step down from Dom is revisionist history. He may have finished the year in the top 10 statistically, but do you really think he was a top 10 goalie that year? IIRC, he was awful in the 1st half of the year and then came on strong in the 2nd half -- when we were already buried in the standings, so there was no pressure b/c we were already out of it.

 

No one would argue that Marty was not a huge step down from Hasek. (Well maybe the idiots who think Hasek let the series-clinching goal against the Pens in on purpose.) Of course he was. But that's not what you said ... You said a top 10 goalie would have put them in the playoffs, and Biron was that, like it or not. The dropoff from 1 to 10 was definitely a big one, but those teams had FAR bigger issues than Biron. THIS team, thankfully, does not, allowing us to waste so much time discussing the backup goalie.

 

It's all academic anyway ... listening to Lindy today on Sabres.com, sounds like Miller will be back sooner rather than later ...

[hopeleslyobvious]

Let's play guess the goalie..........

 

From 2003-current

W-L-T GAA SV%

 

Goalie#1 53-27-5 2.51 .909

 

Goalie#2 45-26-1 2.71 .908

Your choices are:

 

Marty Biron

 

Ryan Miller

 

Here's some numbers:

 

Ryan Miller in post lockout NHL: GAA: 2.61 SV% .914

Marty Biron in post lockout NHL: GAA: 2.95 SV% .901

 

And another note: During Marty's streak last year, 7 of the wins were against non-playoff teams. 5 against Pittsburgh and Washington.

[Done]

Here's some numbers:

 

Ryan Miller in post lockout NHL: GAA: 2.61 SV% .914

Marty Biron in post lockout NHL: GAA: 2.95 SV% .901

 

And another note: During Marty's streak last year, 7 of the wins were against non-playoff teams. 5 against Pittsburgh and Washington.

 

Correct....which goes back to my point that Biron should be starting for 1/3 of the league. Have I ever said the Sabres?

 

If someone puts a $100 bill and a $50 bill in front of you, do you spend the $100 and "clean yourself" with the $50???

[hopeleslyobvious]

Correct....which goes back to my point that Biron should be starting for 1/3 of the league. Have I ever said the Sabres?

 

If someone puts a $100 bill and a $50 bill in front of you, do you spend the $100 and "clean yourself" with the $50???

 

I disagree with your assessment of most of the teams he "could" be starting for.