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PromoTheRobot

Miller #2 in shots faced

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While the Sabres are getting their shots, they a certainly giving them up too. Is this from bad defensive play, or the nature of the new NHL? Having said that, for a team to be giving up that many shots, and have a winning record, says something about the goaltending. Miller lets in some softies, but so far he has also been a difference-maker for the Sabres.

 

PTR

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is it total shots faced? that may be just because he has played every game and they have played as many teams as anyone ...

So far I have not been disappointed with the defense as a whole ... they have their moments when they struggle but overall they have been adequate ...

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While the Sabres are getting their shots, they a certainly giving them up too. Is this from bad defensive play, or the nature of the new NHL? Having said that, for a team to be giving up that many shots, and have a winning record, says something about the goaltending. Miller lets in some softies, but so far he has also been a difference-maker for the Sabres.

 

PTR

Good question. I assumed it was total shots given up by the Sabres. Still his save pct. must be decent.

 

PTR

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The Sabres are getting the most shots per game in the league at 37.2/game.

 

They are giving up the 4th most shots per game at 33.7.

 

Basically, their games are exciting. (As if you didn't already know that!)

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While the Sabres are getting their shots, they a certainly giving them up too. Is this from bad defensive play, or the nature of the new NHL? Having said that, for a team to be giving up that many shots, and have a winning record, says something about the goaltending. Miller lets in some softies, but so far he has also been a difference-maker for the Sabres.

 

PTR

I've noticed that while Vanek-Briere-Dumont is a very talented offensive trio, the Sabres can get pressured and trapped in their own zone for 35-40 seconds at a time when they are on this ice.

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I've noticed that while Vanek-Briere-Dumont is a very talented offensive trio, the Sabres can get pressured and trapped in their own zone for 35-40 seconds at a time when they are on this ice.

true... but this can be seen as a good thing... while it is tough to avoid getting scored on in these situations it builds confidence for miller if he can stop them all. it also helps his experience too.

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true... but this can be seen as a good thing... while it is tough to avoid getting scored on in these situations it builds confidence for miller if he can stop them all. it also helps his experience too.

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard ... way to look on the bright side though ...

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Also--it's not always the quantity of shots that matters. Quality counts too. If a team is shooting at Miller's pads as a dump-in, it counts as a shot, but is probably harmless (unless the shooter is named Zhitnik). I've seen some quality scoring chances against the Sabres, but I also have seen some weak shots. The Sabres' shots have seemed to be on higher quality attempts; the Penguins game comes to mind.

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Guest rick in kelowna

The other night during the TB game the commentator from TSN said these words....."I'll tell you what. These Buffalo Sabres are one EXCITING team to watch."

 

Listen. I love the Sabres, have for 30 years, but I cannot recall the last time the words Exciting and Sabres were used in the same sentence.

 

The Sabres are finally playing the way the game should be played. Giving up shots is part of the new NHL. Instead of assuming a guy will score and taking a penalty, guys are letting the opposition shoot and let their goalie hopefully make the save. That really is the way it should be done. unless a guy is in alone and you are clinging to a late lead. The goalie is there to save pucks.

 

The Sabres shots for and against is a welcome sign. I'm very proud of how they are playing.

 

Not impressed with the winner Miller let in. He just wasn't in proper position and it was a weak goal.

 

Biron will be traded. Better chance of getting something proven in return and you dump his larger salary.

 

Phoenix and LA come to mind, but I bet Atlanta sweetens the pot for Marty.

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The other night during the TB game the commentator from TSN said these words....."I'll tell you what. These Buffalo Sabres are one EXCITING team to watch."

 

Listen. I love the Sabres, have for 30 years, but I cannot recall the last time the words Exciting and Sabres were used in the same sentence.

 

The Sabres are finally playing the way the game should be played. Giving up shots is part of the new NHL. Instead of assuming a guy will score and taking a penalty, guys are letting the opposition shoot and let their goalie hopefully make the save. That really is the way it should be done. unless a guy is in alone and you are clinging to a late lead. The goalie is there to save pucks.

 

The Sabres shots for and against is a welcome sign. I'm very proud of how they are playing.

 

Not impressed with the winner Miller let in. He just wasn't in proper position and it was a weak goal.

 

Biron will be traded. Better chance of getting something proven in return and you dump his larger salary.

 

Phoenix and LA come to mind, but I bet Atlanta sweetens the pot for Marty.

Rick in Kelowna wins the distance-from-Buffalo award, I'll bet.

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Biron will be traded. Better chance of getting something proven in return and you dump his larger salary.

 

Phoenix and LA come to mind, but I bet Atlanta sweetens the pot for Marty.

Phoenix and LA have some room under the cap (~$31MM and $33MM respectively) so they may be interested in Biron, but it looks like Buffalo is planning on trading Mika. Atlanta's cap situation is much tighter, their payroll is nearly $36MM right now and that is without counting Lehtonin. I would expect that Atlanta would be much more interested in Noronen due to salary issues. Lehtonin, the goalie of the future will be 22 in a few weeks, and makes ~900k. Bringing in Noronen @$665k makes a lot more sense than bringing in Biron at $2.1MM.

 

With Atlanta getting close to the point of desperation, I would not be surprised to see the Sabres targeting a young defenseman or a center for Mika. Stefan is a possible target if Atlanta throws in a high draft pick. Stefan played well in Europe last year although he has not done much yet in the NHL. He would be an upgrade (IMHO) over Connolly on the 3rd line and would help Atlanta's salary cap. I don't think the Sabres could pry Sutton away from Atlanta, but boy would he look good in a Sabres uni. Other potential targets for Noronen could be Braydon Coburn or Jim Sharrow or possibly Mark Savard. If they do go for Coburn or Sharrow, I would expect to see Modry or Havelid to come as well to ease the salary cap situation. I don't see the Sabres being interested in getting anything but a young defenseman or a center for Noronen.

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Listen. I love the Sabres, have for 30 years, but I cannot recall the last time the words Exciting and Sabres were used in the same sentence.

AAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!! I agree, very fun to watch and root for.

 

Lets hope they keep the intensity up.

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Phoenix and LA have some room under the cap (~$31MM and $33MM respectively) so they may be interested in Biron, but it looks like Buffalo is planning on trading Mika.  Atlanta's cap situation is much tighter, their payroll is nearly $36MM right now and that is without counting Lehtonin.  I would expect that Atlanta would be much more interested in Noronen due to salary issues.  Lehtonin, the goalie of the future will be 22 in a few weeks, and makes ~900k.  Bringing in Noronen @$665k makes a lot more sense than bringing in Biron at $2.1MM.

 

With Atlanta getting close to the point of desperation, I would not be surprised to see the Sabres targeting a young defenseman or a center for Mika.  Stefan is a possible target if Atlanta throws in a high draft pick.  Stefan played well in Europe last year although he has not done much yet in the NHL.  He would be an upgrade (IMHO) over Connolly on the 3rd line and would help Atlanta's salary cap.  I don't think the Sabres could pry Sutton away from Atlanta, but boy would he look good in a Sabres uni.  Other potential targets for Noronen could be Braydon Coburn or Jim Sharrow or possibly Mark Savard.  If they do go for Coburn or Sharrow, I would expect to see Modry or Havelid to come as well to ease the salary cap situation.  I don't see the Sabres being interested in getting anything but a young defenseman or a center for Noronen.

that all makes alot of sense... very insightful actually... i could see that happening to tell you the truth. just need to make sure we get the right people for noronen

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Phoenix and LA have some room under the cap (~$31MM and $33MM respectively) so they may be interested in Biron, but it looks like Buffalo is planning on trading Mika. Atlanta's cap situation is much tighter, their payroll is nearly $36MM right now and that is without counting Lehtonin. I would expect that Atlanta would be much more interested in Noronen due to salary issues. Lehtonin, the goalie of the future will be 22 in a few weeks, and makes ~900k. Bringing in Noronen @$665k makes a lot more sense than bringing in Biron at $2.1MM.

 

With Atlanta getting close to the point of desperation, I would not be surprised to see the Sabres targeting a young defenseman or a center for Mika. Stefan is a possible target if Atlanta throws in a high draft pick. Stefan played well in Europe last year although he has not done much yet in the NHL. He would be an upgrade (IMHO) over Connolly on the 3rd line and would help Atlanta's salary cap. I don't think the Sabres could pry Sutton away from Atlanta, but boy would he look good in a Sabres uni. Other potential targets for Noronen could be Braydon Coburn or Jim Sharrow or possibly Mark Savard. If they do go for Coburn or Sharrow, I would expect to see Modry or Havelid to come as well to ease the salary cap situation. I don't see the Sabres being interested in getting anything but a young defenseman or a center for Noronen.

No way will Atlanta even think about Savard (second in the NHL in scoring), and Stefan is a reach by himself, let alone with a draft pick ... I understand they are hurting, but Lehtonen is not going to be out forever and the Sabres are not exactly offering Patrick Roy here. Noronen has proven nothing at the NHL level. they were supposedly offering a second round pick for the guy 2 weeks ago and now somehow they are going to offer someone from their top 2 lines and maybe throw in a draft pick? It's not gonna happen.

Besides that, I don't blame regier one bit for wanting to keep him away from Atlanta ... why help them? that is a team you are going to be battling for a playoff spot with. Every point counts, why help them out? Let them get lit up 9-1 every night, screw 'em.

As far as I am concerned, if atlanta is the only option, let Noronen sit and wait and collect his $600,000, it could be worse. I don't care if the guy is unhappy. Where Atlanta sits with injuries today could be the Sabres tomorrow, if not in goal then somewhere else where they could trade noronen to fill a hole.

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Saw LA v the blue jackets last night at Staples.

 

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nhl/gamecenter/r...20051016_CLB@LA

 

Doesn't seem to me that LA needs a goalie - goalie Jason LaBarbera remains unbeaten.

 

Also - Columbus was a man down for what seemed like the entire game and LA made them pay. The sabes must continue to avoid penalties, and that alone will allow us to remain in tight games with good teams.

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No way will Atlanta even think about Savard (second in the NHL in scoring), and Stefan is a reach by himself, let alone with a draft pick ... I understand they are hurting, but Lehtonen is not going to be out forever and the Sabres are not exactly offering Patrick Roy here. Noronen has proven nothing at the NHL level. they were supposedly offering a second round pick for the guy 2 weeks ago and now somehow they are going to offer someone from their top 2 lines and maybe throw in a draft pick? It's not gonna happen.

Besides that, I don't blame regier one bit for wanting to keep him away from Atlanta ... why help them? that is a team you are going to be battling for a playoff spot with. Every point counts, why help them out? Let them get lit up 9-1 every night, screw 'em.

As far as I am concerned, if atlanta is the only option, let Noronen sit and wait and collect his $600,000, it could be worse. I don't care if the guy is unhappy. Where Atlanta sits with injuries today could be the Sabres tomorrow, if not in goal then somewhere else where they could trade noronen to fill a hole.

Patrick Stefan is the Thrashers 3rd line center. He had extremely high expectations and has for all intents and purposes been a bust to this point. You don't give up a goalie within your conference for JP Dumont. Stefan, while showing flashes, has not played at Dumont's level.

 

The Thrashers are not hurting, they are hemorraging. I don't know when any of the goalies will come back, but right now they are trying #'s 4 and 5 on the depth chart and they are not getting it done. Atlanta caught a break this week, in that they only have 2 games and are off until Thursday, but Garnett and Berkhoel are getting lit up like Christmas trees. I'd be very surprised to see Atlanta win with either guy in net. If Dunham or Lehtonin don't come back soon, a very promising season could be down the toilet. Atlanta has spent a lot of money and don't play in a traditional NHL market (although it is a stronger market than most give them credit for), tossing this season for the lack of a goalie could very well set this team on the road to leaving Atlanta. In trade talks with most teams, Regier doesn't have a very strong hand as there are very few teams that don't think they at least might have the answer in net already on their roster; in talks with Atlanta he holds all the cards.

 

I don't expect Atlanta to be thrilled about giving up Savard and doubt that they'd give him up for Mika, but I absolutely expect him to be a player the Sabres are asking about. Atlanta MIGHT be interested in unloading his salary at this point and he would definitely be a player the Sabres would be interested in, that is why he was included in the analysis. Also, his 9 points in 6 games is slightly skewed. He has 8 points in 2 games against Washington. Atlanta scored 15 goals in those 2 games. They have 2 goals in their other 4. Savard traditionally scores in the 50 point range, he is currently on Atlanta's top line and top pp unit; anybody will score with Kovalchuk and Hossa on their line for the full season. Heck, trading Savard would open up room on one of the top 2 lines for Stefan and could give him the break he needs to step his game up to expectations. Stefan makes half of what Savard makes, so moving Savard might make more sense for Atlanta than it appears at 1st blush.

 

EDIT: My gut feel is that the defensemen are more in play than the centers, and would expect to see the trade fall out more along those lines, if one occurs. But with Atlanta's play in its own end so far this year, they may be even more reluctant to give up a d than a center.

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Like I said, let them hemorrage. Let them flounder with ECHL castoffs for all I care. ESPN lost the NHL, I think Darren Pang is available. Especially if all the Sabres can get out of it is a "third line center who has been a bust to this point ... " I think we have one of those, he wears #19 (although he has been a better two-way player this season). As for Savard and his salary, they are 6 games into the season, why all of a sudden would he be too expensive for them? I totally agree he is not going to stay on the pace he is now but playing with those guys he appears to fit well. They decided to put that team together to score goals and if they start dealing their top offensive players for a goalie who they are not even sure can carry the load, they have to change their whole identity because they have less firepower and have to protect the goalie.

If they can get Sutton, great, he would upgrade the Sabres defense and is not that expensive. All these other proposals are trading for the sake of trading. Stefan, Savard, they are just new guys who do the same thing the Sabres current forwards do. They are not an upgrade in any way. We are in such a hurry to deal a goalie we are looking for other teams to help instead of looking for a deal that really helps the Sabres.

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Like I said, let them hemorrage. Let them flounder with ECHL castoffs for all I care. ESPN lost the NHL, I think Darren Pang is available. Especially if all the Sabres can get out of it is a "third line center who has been a bust to this point ... " I think we have one of those, he wears #19 (although he has been a better two-way player this season). As for Savard and his salary, they are 6 games into the season, why all of a sudden would he be too expensive for them? I totally agree he is not going to stay on the pace he is now but playing with those guys he appears to fit well.  They decided to put that team together to score goals and if they start dealing their top offensive players for a goalie who they are not even sure can carry the load, they have to change their whole identity because they have less firepower and have to protect the goalie.

If they can get Sutton, great, he would upgrade the Sabres defense and is not that expensive. All these other proposals are trading for the sake of trading. Stefan, Savard, they are just new guys who do the same thing the Sabres current forwards do. They are not an upgrade in any way. We are in such a hurry to deal a goalie we are looking for other teams to help instead of looking for a deal that really helps the Sabres.

In my 1st post, I said I would take Stefan AND a high draft pick. You said he was on their 2nd line, I was clarifying that he isn't. You also said you felt it was a reach to get Atlanta to be willing to trade him away for Mika, now you are comparing Stefan to Connolly. I would not trade a goalie straight up for Connolly.

 

I don't know that Atlanta wants to unload Savard's salary, I said they MIGHT. They may be looking at other deals besides the potential Noronen deal, if so; maybe salary becomes a consideration. They may also have concerns about attendence if the team goes on a protracted losing streak. The team is selling a lot of tickets but they are also running a lot of promotions. If attendence goes down, can they still afford a $36MM payroll? I don't know. Out of the 5 potential players I saw Buffalo being interested in, you have latched onto the 5th one and said Atlanta won't want to give him up. I've already stated that I don't think they will want to give him up.

 

I'm confused by your post. You seem to be saying that the centers I am looking at are no better than the Sabres existing centers, but that they are too good to get for a goalie. You also appear to be saying that letting an asset drop in value is a good thing (keeping Mika sitting on the shelf) or that the Sabres will somehow be able to get a better offer in the future without giving any particulars. If the Sabres are "trying to fill a hole" down the road, they will be dealing from a position of weakness and will not be able to do better than what I have currently proposed and probably will not be able to even get the 2nd rounder for Mika.

 

We do seem to agree that getting Sutton would be a good thing. I don't expect that Atlanta would be willing to give him up for Mika, but hey, you never know. Either prospect I looked at the Sabres wanting is better than a 2nd round pick in next year's draft.

 

When Lehtonin and Hnidy are back in the lineup, their payroll will go over $37MM. Adding Mika for a draft pick will push that to ~$37.5MM. (Marty would push it to just barely under the $39MM cap.)

 

SJ got a 2nd round pick for Kiprusoff. That is what has been offered for Mika (per reports in Buffalo News). SJ was in a position similar to Buffalo at the time. When Calgary offered a 2nd, they jumped at it. Atlanta was in Calgary's position 2 weeks ago. They now are much worse off. You are correct in that Atlanta is now desperate. Now is a good time to try to trade with Atlanta as the Sabres are dealing from a position of strength. I have posted several potential trades the Sabres may be able to make that are better than a 2nd round pick. The odds are long that there will be a team in worse goaltending shape than Atlanta later in the season. (Atlanta is down to #4&5 on depth chart, neither of whom had ever played an NHL game before and both have gotten shelled in their 1st starts.) The odds are good that the value opposing teams place on Mika will go down as he rots in Buffalo. He is not playing now. I don't see him playing in Buffalo anytime soon and he cannot play in the AHL without the Sabres losing him via wavers.

 

Buffalo signed their emergency #3 in Leighton who has NHL experience. Mika is not as important to Buffalo in that role as he was before the Chicago trade. I would like to see Buffalo improve the value of their assets or to put it another way to get more valuable assets. Atlanta's current situation gives Buffalo an opportunity to do that. I would like to see the Sabres take the opportunity.

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Ok I can totally see where you are confused by the centers thing, I didn't explain it well ... while I don't think they are any better than the guys the Sabres have now, I guess I was trying to say that Savard and Stefan have more value to Atlanta ... Savard because he seems to be a good fit with the big guns and would leave a hole to fill in their lineup, Stefan because they invested a very high pick and time to try to develop him and they would still need to replace him in the lineup ... just like Noronen has more value to the Sabres than many other teams, because they drafted him high and invested a lot to develop him amd kind of know what they have, whereas he is a bit of an unknown to others.

And the fact is, as much as Atlanta needs a goalie, they also know the Sabres need to deal one ... I don't think the Sabres are dealing from a huge position of strength here, so that's why I was saying I don't think Atlanta would give up Savard or Stefan ... not that it would be an uneven swap, just that Atlanta would be very unlikely to do it because it would just create a hole in a different place AND if I am the atlanta GM, why should I do that when I know the Sabres are as desperate to move a goalie as I am to get one.

If a second rounder is the going rate for Noronen, maybe that is the best deal Regier can get. I have said all along that's all they would ever get because everyone knows they need to move a goalie ... Sutton would be too good to be true I am afraid ... But if that is the case, it really bails atlanta out of a bad situation for essentially nothing this season and it could help them beat you in the playoff race ... let them lose a couple more 9-1 games before you pull the trigger on that deal.

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BtP,

 

Thanks for the clarification. I won't say I necessarily agree with you, but I do see what you were trying to say.

 

I do still believe that the Sabres do have a position of strength over Atlanta simply because although the Sabres are losing value with Noronen by keeping him in the press box, they are not losing games. Atlanta IS losing games because of the situation. Basically, Buffalo really really wants to trade a goalie; Atlanta really really needs to trade for a goalie.

 

Because Atlanta is one of the teams that Buffalo will have to beat out I do not want to see them trade for a 2nd from Atlanta at this time, if that is the best the Sabres can do. I would however make any of the other Atlanta trades I have suggested. I don't know enough about Popovic to say whether I'd want him or not. I know he was with the Ducks organization before this season but that's about it. I have to believe Atlanta will offer more than a 2nd round pick at the current time.

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This is Mika Noronen. His cheap and unproven but he'll make a half decent stop gap measure. And about ATL what do they do once Lehtonen and Dunham are back? they may just want to ride this one out, or go for someone who can be demoted.

 

We're lucky to get a 2nd rounder for Noronen OR Biron. neither have good reputations. barely competant is the general remark. just get one out. this is damn ridiculous.

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